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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) New fide rating regulations from 2nd july 2017? (Read 5083 times)
Stigma
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Re: New fide rating regulations from 2nd july 2017?
Reply #11 - 06/18/17 at 07:08:40
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ReneDescartes wrote on 06/15/17 at 22:35:01:
Ah I see-- because the system doesn't iterate the calculations after every game. That must then be the meaning of the statement that the  rating "turns over" in 18 games for K=40: If you play at a performance level 150 points over your last rating for 18 games you will gain those 150 points. Then the K=700/n business exactly prevents anyone affected from going over their performance rating, for it cuts the K so as to make the the totality of games equivalent to 17.5 games, just short of the number that would let them go over their strength.

Indeed. It seems like someone in FIDE has had a good think about how to prevent the excessive rating gains we've seen sometimes.
  

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Keano
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Re: New fide rating regulations from 2nd july 2017?
Reply #10 - 06/17/17 at 22:37:10
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I dont really understand any of this but I will take the word of our esteemed forum members.
  
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ReneDescartes
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Re: New fide rating regulations from 2nd july 2017?
Reply #9 - 06/15/17 at 22:35:01
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Ah I see-- because the system doesn't iterate the calculations after every game. That must then be the meaning of the statement that the  rating "turns over" in 18 games for K=40: If you play at a performance level 150 points over your last rating for 18 games you will gain those 150 points. Then the K=700/n business exactly prevents anyone affected from going over their performance rating, for it cuts the K so as to make the the totality of games equivalent to 17.5 games, just short of the number that would let them go over their strength.
  
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Stigma
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Re: New fide rating regulations from 2nd july 2017?
Reply #8 - 06/15/17 at 20:49:52
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ReneDescartes wrote on 06/15/17 at 16:31:05:
Good point. In the US most tournaments are open and this is not such an issue.

I see. But the US still sends players to the World Youth/Junior Championship. Though I know the practice here varies; some federations will send virtually anyone who wants to play (especially if the parents or a sponsor pays all expences). I assume juniors sometimes have to prove themselves to be on a team, whether a junior team or a club team?

ReneDescartes wrote on 06/15/17 at 16:31:05:
If the probability curves worked as advertized, however, it would be impossible to overshoot your actual playing level except by fraud or collusion (throwing games). Playing at 2600 level for a year wouldn'the get you all the way to 2600.

It seems you're overlooking that a player's rating progress is calculated from the starting level throughout an entire period (currently one month). The player's own rating isn't adjusted until the next list.

So if a junior is rated 2250 on a list and then plays three or four tournaments with a 2400 performance, he gets the same "2400-performance-with-2250" rating increase 3-4 times. Within that month his rating gain for the same performance will not become progressively less, as your logic presupposes.

No time to do the calculation right now, but with K=40 I believe such a player would end up way above 2400. Which is why the "strategy" of parking just below 2300, training hard and then getting as many games as possible in a month has become so popular.

Tournaments from previous months being sent in late can further compound the problem. It's possible to get more than 30 games rated in a single month.
« Last Edit: 06/15/17 at 23:02:14 by Stigma »  

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ReneDescartes
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Re: New fide rating regulations from 2nd july 2017?
Reply #7 - 06/15/17 at 16:31:05
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Stigma wrote on 06/14/17 at 23:35:32:
ReneDescartes wrote on 06/14/17 at 23:17:19:
If a kid wants to do that, who cares? He'll cough the points back up soon enough.

People who compete with that kid for tournament selections and spots on a team care.

This especially affects other juniors who have been less lucky and/or strategic, but also adults when regular (non-junior) tournaments are concerned.

Good point. In the US most tournaments are open and this is not such an issue.

If the probability curves worked as advertized, however, it would be impossible to overshoot your actual playing level except by fraud or collusion (throwing games). Playing at 2600 level for a year wouldn'the get you all the way to 2600. That doesn't mean that rising to your real playing level more quickly than can other improving players isn't gaining an advantage over them, but this advantage could not exist over established players--if, that is, the probabilities worked as advertized.

On the other hand, it's certainly imaginable that one can develop the ability to beat 2300 players with 3/4 of the points yet not the ability to overcome the qualitatively different resistance against scoring 1/2 of the points against 2500 players. Kasparov speaks of being stunned by the nature of the resistance he encountered in Petrosian and Spassky. His first Karpov match shows the same phenomenon. His rating after beating Korchnoi and Smyslov was higher than Karpov's, yet it did not prepare him for what he was about to meet. The swift result was 0-4... 

If this phenomenon is common then the proability curves underlying the rating system do not work as advertized but are deformed; in that case, one really can overshoot one's playing strength (or rather there is no single quantity representing one's strength in the current manner agains all players.

One could patch the problem with a rating ceiling of 100+ the rating of the highest opponent one has beaten, or average of highest 3 opponents, etc.  The current regulation would also help (but as I read the regulation, for juniors under 2300 all games in a rating period will have the same K: 40 or 700/[n for the period], whichever is less.)
  
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raja
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Re: New fide rating regulations from 2nd july 2017?
Reply #6 - 06/15/17 at 03:28:59
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I think i now i understood how the K value works...let me  explain below...


K value is 40 for below 18 youngsters....

but each month it will be k40 for first 17 games..because 700 divided by 40 =17.5

after 17 games.. you will have to divide the number of games by 700 to obtain the k value.. 

for example if a  kid who is below 18 years of age plays  30 rated games in one month ...then  first 17 games his k value will be 40 after that for each game it will change....for his 30th game his k will be 700/30=23. On the next month it will be back to 40 again..till he plays 17 games for that month....this will continue till his 18th birthday...

Hope it clears everything....

This change in the K value stops the players to play  a lot of games with in one month..and gain a huge rating ...because for each month only first 17 games will be having k 40 and after that it will reduce
  
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raja
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Re: New fide rating regulations from 2nd july 2017?
Reply #5 - 06/15/17 at 03:02:49
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There seems to be some changes...please see

"K = 40 for all players until their 18th birthday, as long as their rating remains under 2300.
If the number of games (n) for a player on any list for a rating period multiplied by K (as defined above) exceeds 700, then K shall be the largest whole number such that K x n does not exceed 700."

So what i understand is that k value is  700/ number of games played by the player..

am i right?  this is confusing because if a player plays say 100 games..then his k value becomes 700/100= 7  it doesnt make any sense...am i missing something? Embarrassed
  
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raja
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Re: New fide rating regulations from 2nd july 2017?
Reply #4 - 06/15/17 at 02:57:16
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Keano wrote on 06/14/17 at 20:34:18:
I think its all been published, no big changes really.

https://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.html?id=197&view=article

I am surprised!! because the person from whom i got this information is an International Arbiter  and he was damn sure about change in K factor.
  
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Stigma
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Re: New fide rating regulations from 2nd july 2017?
Reply #3 - 06/14/17 at 23:35:32
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ReneDescartes wrote on 06/14/17 at 23:17:19:
If a kid wants to do that, who cares? He'll cough the points back up soon enough.

People who compete with that kid for tournament selections and spots on a team care.

This especially affects other juniors who have been less lucky and/or strategic, but also adults when regular (non-junior) tournaments are concerned.

It's high time this K=40 nonsense is ditched for players who are already way above 2000. The intent was good: to help juniors climb from very low start ratings after FIDE lowered the absolute floor several times. But the system in place for the past several years was an over-reaction.
  

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ReneDescartes
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Re: New fide rating regulations from 2nd july 2017?
Reply #2 - 06/14/17 at 23:17:19
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If a kid wants to do that, who cares? He'll cough the points back up soon enough. It would be a relief to pay an overrated kid for a change. As for returning after improving between tounaments--it's not sandbagging. Fischer did it in 1970. Was that so unfair?

If you play such a kid during his breakout tounament and his K is 40, that doesn't make your K 40.
  
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Re: New fide rating regulations from 2nd july 2017?
Reply #1 - 06/14/17 at 20:34:18
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I think its all been published, no big changes really.

https://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.html?id=197&view=article
  
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raja
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New fide rating regulations from 2nd july 2017?
06/13/17 at 11:04:35
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The current rating regulation is going to expire by this month end...

https://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.html?id=172&view=article

Any guesses about the changes that could be brought in with the new regulations from next month?

One of my friends who has inside information told me that from july onwards K factor is gonna change...currently K value is


K = 40 for a player new to the rating list until he has completed events with at least 30 games
K = 20 as long as a player's rating remains under 2400.
K = 10 once a player's published rating has reached 2400 and remains at that level subsequently, even if the rating drops below 2400.
K = 40 for all players until their 18th birthday, as long as their rating remains under 2300.

K = 20 for RAPID and BLITZ ratings all players.

But there is a big debate going on about the K 40 value for youngsters . Because of high K value some players are using it strategically to gain huge elo points with a very small time.. for example a youngster will have k value of 40 before he touches 2300 rating...so  one who is around 2299 rating can easily use this fact and gain big rating points ....what they do is when they reach 2290 +- few points...they keep playing lot of tournaments in one month time....and gain huge rating points....


more about this is given in the following interesting article..where it shows how a 1900 player whent to 2500 rating..without even winning players above rating of 2400...

http://zibbitchess.com/the-dubious-k-factor-of-40/


SO the rumor is that  the new regulations will change the k 40 value...

from July all players k value will be set to 40 for the first 18 games  and after that k becomes 10.

also there is one more rumor that the rating floor is going to be reduced to 800 from 1000.

Anybody here has any information on this ? please share...



  
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