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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Looking for a dull repertoire against 1. d4 (Read 17183 times)
ehpotsirhc
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Re: Looking for a dull repertoire against 1. d4
Reply #39 - 08/27/20 at 19:13:22
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How about the Chebanenko Slav?
  
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grandpatzer
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Re: Looking for a dull repertoire against 1. d4
Reply #38 - 08/27/20 at 15:13:58
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This said, if the OP likes the French Rubinstein with Black, I honestly think that vs. 1.d4 he may try the QGA: apparently unambitious but very solid and in common with both defences there is the early relinquishing of the center with the idea of c7-c5 in mind.
  
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ReneDescartes
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Re: Looking for a dull repertoire against 1. d4
Reply #37 - 08/26/20 at 18:32:14
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Nepo staked his Candidates' result on it in two games, and in those his opponents played 3.Nc3, allowing the Rubinstein. I think the fashion for 3.e5, if there is one, has to do either with economy of preparation in more normal events or with nothing (like all fashion).

I agree with Jupp.
  
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Re: Looking for a dull repertoire against 1. d4
Reply #36 - 08/26/20 at 18:24:31
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grandpatzer wrote on 08/24/20 at 11:20:25:
I didn’t say that the Rubinstein is dull, I noticed that most super GMs recently switched to the Advance French as White, especially the 6.a3 line, I suppose as an attempt to win.


This will pass by. It only shows how solid the French is.
  
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grandpatzer
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Re: Looking for a dull repertoire against 1. d4
Reply #35 - 08/24/20 at 11:20:25
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I didn’t say that the Rubinstein is dull, I noticed that most super GMs recently switched to the Advance French as White, especially the 6.a3 line, I suppose as an attempt to win.
  
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tony37
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Re: Looking for a dull repertoire against 1. d4
Reply #34 - 08/24/20 at 09:15:34
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grandpatzer wrote on 08/24/20 at 08:16:00:
Most Super GMs go for 3.e5 against the rare Frenchs they meet nowadays, so I have to suppose its a valid attempt to play for a win (i.e. “not dull” from White’s perspective).

This reasoning doesn't make sense, as we're supposing the Rubinstein is dull although White's play there is certainly a valid attempt to win.
I see Langrock recommends 4...Bd7 5.Nf3 a6 in the Advance French, intending to swap off bishops with Bb5. Looks rather dull to me.
  
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grandpatzer
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Re: Looking for a dull repertoire against 1. d4
Reply #33 - 08/24/20 at 08:16:00
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Most Super GMs go for 3.e5 against the rare Frenchs they meet nowadays, so I have to suppose its a valid attempt to play for a win (i.e. “not dull” from White’s perspective). Also, MNb, you seem to have great faith in the Geller Gambit vs. the Slav, when it is almost never seen at top level, (but you will certainly show me a - yes, one - recent GM brilliancy showing me I am wrong...) In truth it is fairly easily met by Black with a few accurate opening moves, leaving him a clear Pawn up.
  
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MNb
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Re: Looking for a dull repertoire against 1. d4
Reply #32 - 08/24/20 at 05:10:28
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grandpatzer wrote on 08/23/20 at 20:13:03:

But White can deviate earlier, e.g. with the Advance Variation or the Wing Gambit, creating early imbalances in the opening.

Consult Langrock and tell me how exciting White's game will be.

Let me quote IM Watson: "I never realized that Black could take such active measures in the Rubinstein Variation without significant drawbacks."

The author of The Solid Rubinstein Variation himself: "We want to equalize completely in a straightforward manner."
"It has to be admitted that it is not the opening with the greatest winning potential."
"The positions that arise from the Rubinstein tend to be relatively clearcut without wild craziness going on."

This describes the approach of IM Langrock to every variation after 1.e4 e6, ie also all the deviations, including the two mentioned by you.
When meeting 3.e4 or 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 and 5.e4 against the QGA another approach is required.

Also, if you think "not dull" means the same regarding the French Wing's Gambit as regarding the QGA with 3.e4 and with 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 I advise you to think again.

  
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tony37
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Re: Looking for a dull repertoire against 1. d4
Reply #31 - 08/23/20 at 23:54:34
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Spongebobiscool wrote on 08/23/20 at 14:08:50:
Thanks again for sharing your insights and I'll let you know how the QGA works out for me.

After this discussion here, I'm interested in what you will choose against 3.e4  Wink
  
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grandpatzer
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Re: Looking for a dull repertoire against 1. d4
Reply #30 - 08/23/20 at 20:13:03
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MNb wrote on 08/23/20 at 20:04:05:
grandpatzer wrote on 08/23/20 at 18:30:25:
@MNb On these grounds what is the opening that is always dull. So tell me and and I'll find out the line in that opening that is not dull, the exciting gambit vs. That defense, etc. 

The French a la Langrock. As the OP mentioned.


But White can deviate earlier, e.g. with the Advance Variation or the Wing Gambit, creating early imbalances in the opening.
  
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MNb
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Re: Looking for a dull repertoire against 1. d4
Reply #29 - 08/23/20 at 20:04:05
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grandpatzer wrote on 08/23/20 at 18:30:25:
@MNb On these grounds what is the opening that is always dull. So tell me and and I'll find out the line in that opening that is not dull, the exciting gambit vs. That defense, etc. 

The French a la Langrock. As the OP mentioned.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Looking for a dull repertoire against 1. d4
Reply #28 - 08/23/20 at 19:21:53
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If you're happy playing against an IQP, then the Queen's Gambit Accepted seems like the best option.  Not exactly dull if your opponent gets crazy, but that's true of pretty much every opening.
  
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grandpatzer
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Re: Looking for a dull repertoire against 1. d4
Reply #27 - 08/23/20 at 18:30:25
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@MNb On these grounds what is the opening that is always dull. So tell me and and I'll find out the line in that opening that is not dull, the exciting gambit vs. That defense, etc. 
  
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Spongebobiscool
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Re: Looking for a dull repertoire against 1. d4
Reply #26 - 08/23/20 at 14:08:50
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Thank you for your reactions, they've given me valuable insights and ideas. 🙇‍♂️

I will start researching the QGA Smiley somehow this opening escaped my attention for a very long time, but it seems like a perfect match.

Quote:
First point, your performance with black is exactly what we would expect. Consider a 2330-player who scores 67% with white and 55% with black, this is 61% average, which predicts +78 Elo. Now let's look in the database, using ChessBase Big Database 2018:

WhiteElo from 2280 to 2380 vs BlackElo from 2202 to 2302
N34318 +15183 =13125 -6004 ?6 average: 65.6%

WhiteElo from 2202 to 2302 vs BlackElo from 2280 to 2380
N34229 +8113 =14649 -11465 ?2 average: 45.1%


True, the 55% is not so bad, I'd have to calculate my rating performances to get meaningful statistics. But maybe I'm not as bad with the Black pieces as I previously thought Grin

Quote:
You would be playing AGAINST an IQP a fair bit though -- I couldn't tell from your post if you wanted to having them or avoid them from both sides.


I prefer to avoid playing with the IQP with the Black pieces, but playing against the IQP is completely fine. 

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Too bad about that second red bullet. Maybe you can get over it? Or just admit that black can't have everything he/she/they wants in the opening. Because otherwise the Tarrasch Defense perfectly fits the three green bullets and the first red one.


Absolutely! We need to make concessions in every opening repertoire, especially with the Black pieces. The Tarrasch is my back-up option now. It's indeed very forcing (i.e. White doesn't have many options) and there's some interesting new material on it too by Erwin l'Ami.

If the QGA works out for me, and if I'm happy with the repertoire, I might turn it into a Chessable course Smiley

Thanks again for sharing your insights and I'll let you know how the QGA works out for me. My first blitz games with the opening give reason for optimism but of course, they're just blitz games Grin
  
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ReneDescartes
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Re: Looking for a dull repertoire against 1. d4
Reply #25 - 08/21/20 at 12:55:36
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Well, the Advance French isn't too dull, either, and playing that's a consequence of the variation that's the OP's model.

He has to give up something, so it's too easy to attack each suggestion as giving up one desideratum (which I did a bit myself). I think MNb's Bf5 Exchange QGD, combined with the Lasker, achieves dullness with soundness at least comparable to the Rubinstein's, and doesn't offer White a lot of good deviations. The opponent will also be disgusted with Black's position in the Exchange endgame. But that choice gives up clearing the center reliably. And he still has to deal with the Bf4 variations.

But where is Sponge Bob? He seems to be back undersea with Squidbert while we struggle on with his question.
« Last Edit: 08/21/20 at 15:33:19 by ReneDescartes »  
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