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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul (Read 12656 times)
IsaVulpes
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Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #32 - 07/20/21 at 23:39:18
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trw wrote on 06/30/21 at 06:47:27:
Billionaire does not automatically mean moral, ethical or deserving of our respect.

More likely for it to automatically mean the opposite of those things  Smiley
  
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trw
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Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #31 - 06/30/21 at 06:47:27
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If he wanted to prove how smart he is then why blunder a pawn on move 1 for nothing? The game started 1. Nf3 e5 2. Nxe5 did it not? Seems the better of way of pretending to be smart but lose would be to follow some opening book or opening database for 5-10 moves before thinking for yourself and obviously losing to the former World Champ. Many a random amateur would be in awe of you knowing or figuring out obscure theory for 10 moves...
Anyways, motives aside it was still absolutely disgraceful and certainly leaves me respecting Bill Gates' quick loss to Magnus more than this idiot Kamath. Billionaire does not automatically mean moral, ethical or deserving of our respect. It just means rich.
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #30 - 06/23/21 at 02:29:57
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@VGA

Your explanation sounds totally plausible and I would be inclined to agree with you.
  

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Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #29 - 06/22/21 at 22:03:05
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TopNotch wrote on 06/20/21 at 22:49:10:
It would have been interesting to see what Anand's stance would have been, had their been no immediate public outrage or banning of Kamath's account.

I also find it fascinating that someone with the business acumen to make so much money could do something so monumentally stupid. The only thing I can think of is that he was seduced by delusions of grandeur and in his mind somehow thought he would get away with it.

That you would squander an opportunity to play, by his own admission a childhood idol, and seek instead to diminish their abilities by engine cheating is just sadistic.   

I didn't watch the simul exhibition but I would guess the billionaire wanted to prove how smart he is, not understanding how obvious engine use is. Maybe they wanted to make it a close game and then narrowly lose? But Anand resigned?
  
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Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #28 - 06/21/21 at 03:17:24
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The source of the Fischer "you lose" quote was not my friend. Perhaps it was in Donaldson after all.

Quote:
I know I told a similar story to several people.
    It was a simul where Fischer went over his game with Botvinnik, & incredibly lost track of the position-yes, hard to believe.  One of the ‘simul victims’ rescued him with the Chess Life that had the game.
   Fischer sweeping up the pieces happened on the board next to mine.  Obviously unhappy to see players moving the pieces.  I had told the player it was impolite to do that but he continued anyway.  When Fischer came to the board, I swear it was less than a second & he had already started to sweep up the pieces and was already on his way to the next board.  I did not hear him say ‘you lose’.  While Fischer continued on his simul, I helped the player set up his position correctly.  He did have a scoresheet.  When Fischer reappeared at this board, he allowed the player to continue.
   I played the Mc Cutchen (sp) & got crushed & sadly lost my scoresheet. ... 

(personal message redacted)

... (?) ... the veracity of this following anecdote.  In a Fischer simul, three players collaborated—When they lost the Q, they decided to put the Q back on the board, naively assuming he would not notice.  To their surprise, Fischer did not seem to notice.  A few moves later,  they lost the Q again.  This time Fischer put the Q in his pocket & said ‘you don’t mind if I keep it this time’? ... 

(personal message redacted)

—Rolf
Sent from my iPhone

The simul Rolf Wetzell refers to was played 1964.03.02 at Fitchburg, Massachusetts. According to Donaldson, Fischer scored +49 -5 =2.
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #27 - 06/20/21 at 22:49:10
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It would have been interesting to see what Anand's stance would have been, had their been no immediate public outrage or banning of Kamath's account.

I also find it fascinating that someone with the business acumen to make so much money could do something so monumentally stupid. The only thing I can think of is that he was seduced by delusions of grandeur and in his mind somehow thought he would get away with it.

That you would squander an opportunity to play, by his own admission a childhood idol, and seek instead to diminish their abilities by engine cheating is just sadistic.   
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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cathexis
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Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #26 - 06/20/21 at 16:43:45
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I see your point.
  
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Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #25 - 06/20/21 at 15:52:59
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I think Anand handled it perfectly. The cheaters confessed, the charity benefited, and no one was deceived about either what happened or Anand's view of it. A human bulldozer devoid of nuance such as Kasparov or Fischer would never have been able to pull that off.
« Last Edit: 06/20/21 at 20:04:28 by ReneDescartes »  
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cathexis
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Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #24 - 06/19/21 at 13:07:33
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I was replying to Topnotch's comment as signaled by, "Yep." In agreement with what Topnotch had just said. Discussion threads are often a form of conversation. Direct quotation of the previous statement is common, but not some rule. "Yep," implies agreement. "There's a saying,..." implies an expansion of the Yep. But, to be clear, No 'diss to Anand.

But should there be criticism of him is another point? But NOT the one I meant. Imagine you, Rene, told the forum a story: "Well guys, I was in this Simul and I saw Cathexis cheating but since I didn't want to make a fuss, and since it was for charity - I keep my mouth shut and played on. But later on I politely implied it." Would you consider your behavior to be noble or something else? I wouldn't think I was being fair putting this question to you if I didn't plainly state my own feelings: Cheating is wrong and so is ignoring it, even if for some assumed "good." The greater the opportunity that a given venue may be prone to cheating, the greater the responsibility for leading players to model themselves for the highest values. It may not be precisely defined, but I could suggest there is a tradition of what I would call "Chess Culture." I am no expert, as you well know Rene, but I see little in this incident that I feel expresses it. How you feel, my friend?
« Last Edit: 06/19/21 at 17:27:51 by cathexis »  
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Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #23 - 06/18/21 at 15:32:15
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cathexis wrote on 06/16/21 at 11:15:52:
Yep. There's a saying: You got what you wanted tiger, how does it taste?

I hope you are not referring to Anand?! He is often called the Tiger of Madras, although he does not like the sobriquet.
  
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Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #22 - 06/16/21 at 11:52:49
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Or 'play stupid games, win stupid prizes'
  

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Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #21 - 06/16/21 at 11:15:52
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Yep. There's a saying: You got what you wanted tiger, how does it taste?
  
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Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #20 - 06/16/21 at 03:47:29
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Check out the comment section to this link and remember this was a stream on investing by India's favorite billionaire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLeBa1BCEa8

Does anyone think he cares? The only thing that would make someone of such character show regret is if all his investors abandoned him.
« Last Edit: 06/16/21 at 19:05:41 by TopNotch »  

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TopNotch
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Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #19 - 06/15/21 at 06:43:44
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kylemeister wrote on 06/14/21 at 23:20:03:
Speaking of cheating in simuls in the old days, Tim Krabbé related this in the 1970s (I translated to algebraic):


The Dutch master Bouwmeester often tells this instructive story.  In a simultaneous exhibition he was faced, once again, by a Damiano:  1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 f6 (Incidentally, the name of the Portuguese apothecary Damiano sticks to this patzer opening for the wrong reason:  he mentioned it in his 1512 book to warn against it!).  Bouwmeester now threaded the path thousands have traveled:  3. Nxe5 fe 4. Qh5+ g6 5. Qxe5+, winning the Rook.  At least, that's what he thought.  But when he returned to this board he noticed that Black had not only played 5...Qe7, he had also removed White's e-pawn, pinning the Queen.  No Qxh8!  For a moment, Bouwmeester thought of reprimanding his cheating opponent, but then:  what a fuss there would be, other players would start interfering, it just wasn't worth it.  And couldn't he beat a Damiano-player just as easily a piece down?  So he grimaced, settled for Qxe7+ and moved on.  When he returned again he was greeted by a shattering surprise:  Black had played 6...Bxe7 and the White e-pawn was back!


Something sort of similar happened to me in a School simul I was giving. When I returned to a certain board it was obvious to me that my opponent had already made his move, however he wanted to play again (two moves in a row), when I pointed this out to him he insisted it wasn't true, so I quickly reconstructed the game from scratch and he still insisted so I just claimed the point, whereupon his friend playing next to him chided " I told you not to do it". I can laugh about it now, but it wasn't funny at the time.

Human nature is as such that without strong deterrents and a firm moral compass to restrain us, if there seems an opportunity to get away with wrong doing unscathed it is usually taken. What surprises most with this character type though, is when caught they nearly always scream bloody murder, never wanting to accept the consequences for their actions or find some way to rationalize their behaviour.
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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TopNotch
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Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #18 - 06/15/21 at 04:33:17
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What a class act Vishy is to resign the way he did, imagine if such a scumbag had pulled that on Kasparov. Garry would have petitioned all of Kamath's clients, potential clients maybe even the Indian government to boycott his company. 

Seriously though, what a thing to do to a living legend and your own countryman to boot. More evidence that online chess as a competitive sport is doomed, it is far too easy and apparently too tempting  to cheat. 

It would be scientifically interesting if all these cheaters could somehow be rounded up and studied, to determine whether there is some common pathology that drives them.
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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