Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul (Read 12662 times)
an ordinary chessplayer
God Member
*****
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 1825
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #17 - 06/14/21 at 23:59:35
Post Tools
"You lose" sounds perfect in Bouwmeester's scenario. "What a fuss there would be?" Um, excuse me, your man cheated. Game over, end of discussion.

Actually now I have to check if the Fischer anecdote wasn't related to me by an old friend who played Fischer in one of those 1964 simuls. Sending an email now.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4989
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #16 - 06/14/21 at 23:20:03
Post Tools
Speaking of cheating in simuls in the old days, Tim Krabbé related this in the 1970s (I translated to algebraic):


The Dutch master Bouwmeester often tells this instructive story.  In a simultaneous exhibition he was faced, once again, by a Damiano:  1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 f6 (Incidentally, the name of the Portuguese apothecary Damiano sticks to this patzer opening for the wrong reason:  he mentioned it in his 1512 book to warn against it!).  Bouwmeester now threaded the path thousands have traveled:  3. Nxe5 fe 4. Qh5+ g6 5. Qxe5+, winning the Rook.  At least, that's what he thought.  But when he returned to this board he noticed that Black had not only played 5...Qe7, he had also removed White's e-pawn, pinning the Queen.  No Qxh8!  For a moment, Bouwmeester thought of reprimanding his cheating opponent, but then:  what a fuss there would be, other players would start interfering, it just wasn't worth it.  And couldn't he beat a Damiano-player just as easily a piece down?  So he grimaced, settled for Qxe7+ and moved on.  When he returned again he was greeted by a shattering surprise:  Black had played 6...Bxe7 and the White e-pawn was back!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
an ordinary chessplayer
God Member
*****
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 1825
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #15 - 06/14/21 at 22:05:47
Post Tools
Oh, another way to cheat in an otb simul is chicanery on the part of the organizers, usually around the strength of the boards. Petrosian had a difficult simul in England once, afterwards he remarked that in the USSR such players weren't invited to simuls, they were invited to round-robin tournaments.

In my own case I gave a clock simul where I asked that the players be arranged in rating order. I even took black on the even boards. Technically they complied, the bottom board was "unrated" otb, but he was a 1900-player (!! in those days !!) at correspondence and should have been on board one or two. I only found out a couple of days later when I was talking about how strong he was (and not just for an unrated !) and the organizer admitted what they had done. That was the only 1/2-point I gave up in the simul, and it still rankles a little.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
an ordinary chessplayer
God Member
*****
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 1825
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #14 - 06/14/21 at 21:40:16
Post Tools
I'm pretty sure the Fischer story was in John Donaldson (1994) A Legend on the Road: Bobby Fischer's 1964 Simultaneous Exhibition Tour, but I don't have it in front of me so I can't give the page number. Fascinating stuff in that book.

The most obvious way to cheat in an otb simul is by moving the pieces around when the exhibitor's back is turned. What the amateurs don't realize is the chess master really is playing a "simultaneous" -- they are playing all the competitors in parallel, not one at a time in serial. So they keep their eye on the whole room while they are moving around. Plus it's not easy for an amateur to get the pieces back on their proper squares with 100% reliability, but the chess master knows all the positions at every board exactly. Even more so in a blindfold simul. A less obvious way to cheat is by receiving help from the spectators. Before computers this help was highly variable in quality, particularly because even if the spectators were strong it wasn't their game so they made mistakes they wouldn't necessarily make if they were personally responsible for the result.

An example of playing the whole room: I remember when IM Jim Rizzitano gave a club simul (I was helping with the demo board and refreshments), when he came by the refreshment table he explained. Jim ran into trouble on one of the boards against an A-player, but knew his opponent was a slow thinker. So he sped up the pace a little, as well as offered a couple of strategic draws to quicken the circuit even more. A rule in otb simuls is the player has to move as soon as the exhibitor appears at the board. Sure enough, the A-player soon cracked and blundered.

I see that Donaldson and Tangborn have four or maybe five new Fischer books that I haven't read yet. Last I heard they were "in the works", but I guess they are fact now.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
cathexis
God Member
*****
Offline


No matter where you go,
there you are.

Posts: 664
Location: Stafford, Virginia USA
Joined: 03/03/20
Gender: Male
Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #13 - 06/14/21 at 19:27:12
Post Tools
Yeah, AOC,

That's one Bobby story I've never heard. Sounds like a good one.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Uberdecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 641
Joined: 03/21/06
Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #12 - 06/14/21 at 19:05:56
Post Tools
an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 06/14/21 at 13:59:51:
When Fischer encountered cheats in an otb simul, he would push all the pieces into the middle of the board and say "you lose".


I am very intrigued. How did Fischer's simul opponents cheat at the time ?!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
an ordinary chessplayer
God Member
*****
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 1825
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #11 - 06/14/21 at 18:42:25
Post Tools
RoleyPoley wrote on 06/14/21 at 14:47:39:
He got a lot of satisfaction out of it but no-one else could understand why...

Please don't go there, or we might end up listening to the non-chessplayers who don't understand our hobby.  Cry 
As long as the simul-giver agreed, who are we to judge?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RoleyPoley
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 746
Location: London
Joined: 12/29/13
Gender: Male
Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #10 - 06/14/21 at 14:47:39
Post Tools
bragesjo wrote on 06/14/21 at 13:26:15:
First pay losts on money to play vs one of the greatest player in Chess history and then not make any one moves by one self and instead cheat by using engine moves.


Not the same thing, but this reminds me of when one of my old clubs used to have simuls, there was a guy who used to bring along his computer chessboard and have the strong player play against that. He got a lot of satisfaction out of it but no-one else could understand why...
  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Uberdecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 641
Joined: 03/21/06
Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #9 - 06/14/21 at 14:45:13
Post Tools
That may be a fair assessment, but in my opinion, admitedly with the benefit of hindsight, it was poor judgement on her part. 
First of all, it would have been appropriate for her to voice concern while the games were still in progress, when witnessing such blatant engine play. 
Furthermore it was certainly not up to Anand to bear the burden of calling out the particpants for their cheating. Of course he showed class, that's who he is. The responsibility of transparency to the audience was fully on the shoulders of the organizers, and through them the commentators.

I also find her tweet from the following day, displaying false surprise and outrage after the fact to be rather distasteful.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dfan
God Member
*****
Offline


"When you see a bad move,
look for a better one"

Posts: 766
Location: Boston
Joined: 10/04/05
Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #8 - 06/14/21 at 14:21:12
Post Tools
Uberdecker wrote on 06/14/21 at 11:29:56:

Tania Sachdev was all smiles and jokes during the post-mortem and only expressed her indigniation in a tweet the following day. Are we to believe that an International Master, moreover with access to engine analysis herself, had no incling to what actually happened in these games ?

My take was that it was pretty clear what was going on, but Anand stayed classy about it and she followed his lead.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
an ordinary chessplayer
God Member
*****
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 1825
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #7 - 06/14/21 at 13:59:51
Post Tools
When Fischer encountered cheats in an otb simul, he would push all the pieces into the middle of the board and say "you lose". Anand may have been constrained somewhat both by the charity aspect and by the online aspect. But all titled players should work on their "prepared variation" for what to do in the future if they encounter this in an online simul. Maybe in a simul, the simul-giver should have a special and unilateral "claim game" button.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
hicetnunc
Full Member
***
Offline


"Do something scary every
day"

Posts: 237
Location: Paris, France
Joined: 01/04/03
Gender: Male
Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #6 - 06/14/21 at 13:50:32
Post Tools
Anand reacted with a lot of class. The attitude of the young billionaire who cheated is just pathetic.

Maybe the format could be revisited, like give every player a titled helper so that they can at least play a decent enough game, or even better, adjust the strength of the helper to the amount donated !  Smiley
  

48 yo, 1920 elo
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bragesjo
God Member
*****
Offline


CCE at ICCF 2021 and CCM
at ICCF 2023

Posts: 1839
Location: Eskilstuna
Joined: 06/30/06
Gender: Male
Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #5 - 06/14/21 at 13:26:15
Post Tools
First pay losts on money to play vs one of the greatest player in Chess history and then not make any one moves by one self and instead cheat by using engine moves.

I have played in 3 simultans myself and I usually oversetimates opponent position and plays worse Chess nad makes more obious blunders than if I played vs other titled players. I even played a better  Chess when I lost when I played Dragon vs Thomas Ernst in tournament game a few years ago.

First simulatian game I played I lost vs Pia Cramling.
Number two simultan game I lost vs Ulf Andersson
Number three simultan game I lost vs Ivan Sokolov.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Uberdecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 641
Joined: 03/21/06
Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #4 - 06/14/21 at 12:25:59
Post Tools
cathexis wrote on 06/14/21 at 12:12:23:

I liked one comment given online:
  
Quote:
This is like breaking a plate and trying to fix it with glue



Unfortunately, that tweet was posted by another one of the commentators of the event, though in his defence, he is not a strong or titled player, but an internet celebrity/ chess enthusiast. So in his case, one may give the benefit of the doubt.

As for Anand, he obviously knew exactly what was going on, but he has since stated that the use of an engine was not pre-arranged and there is no evidence to doubt his claim.
During the post-games talk, he did subtly hint at the fact that the games were not kosher "This is not the play of people who only know the moves", but it was obviously not his place to explicitely call out the participants for their cheating. That should have befallen the organizers or those who represented them publicly at the time, in other words, the commentators.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Uberdecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 641
Joined: 03/21/06
Re: Cheating scandal in Anand's online charity simul
Reply #3 - 06/14/21 at 12:17:14
Post Tools
MNb wrote on 06/14/21 at 12:12:06:

The attitude of someone who thinks the scandal more important than the misbehaviour itself. Such attitude is not good for chess either.


I don't quite follow. Who are you referring to ?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo