Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..) (Read 39639 times)
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #54 - 01/26/07 at 10:33:12
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CAN SOMBODY SEND TO MY ADDRESS AN CHESSBASE ARCHIVE BASE OF "Opposite-Coloured Bishop Endgames"? IN RETURN I WILL SENT A BENEFACTOR A BUNCH OF ARCHIVES.   
   
PS. I HAVE ALSO BASES ABOUT PAWN ENDINGS, SOME OF MY OWN, SOME OF CHESSBASE AND OTHERS!!!   
   
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #53 - 12/12/06 at 17:07:27
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A useful way to approach endgame study is to pay special attention to those that arise most often from the openings that you play and try to master them.

Secrets of Practical Chess by John Nunn had an excellent section on the endgame where he focused primarily on a need to know approach. This book would make a wonderful addition to any chess library, and if you absorb the condensed contents fully you will master the two drawing techniques involved in Rook and Bishop vs Bishop endings as well as how to go about trying to win this ending, particularly against inferior defence or a clueless opponent.

Toppy Smiley
  

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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #52 - 11/13/06 at 23:31:44
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After watching the Karsten Mueller Endgame DVD, I think I can see now that in this ending the Black Rook is optimally placed to keep the White King off the 8th rank and also keeping a checking distance of 3 squares, so Black has to move the King. Easy peasy  Wink
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #51 - 11/13/06 at 19:10:33
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IMJohnCox wrote on 11/13/06 at 17:38:50:
This position came up in Neil Berry-Andrew Martin, 4NCL a while ago. I was watching my team mate NB, who held comfortably as Black (in fact he was White, but anyway) with two minutes left on his clock for the rest of the game. I was impressed at the time, but I didn't realise Neil ought to be at this level on this form.

I was watching with Richard Webb. I had no idea what Black should play, although I had the idea Richard was probably a bit better educated than me. I too remembered Rd6 as being cunning but no more than that. You can see why ...Kg6 is counterintuitive, can't you? I suppose that's the only function of the rook on the sixth, to make ....Kg6 seem dangerous?

(I assume after ....Ra7 it's not Rd7 that wins but Ke8; is that right? Otherwise I can't see what Black would do if the rook were not on d6 but d1.)

After Ra7+ Ke8 black cant avoid a Lucena or whatever the position is called. R goes to the c-line via d8 or you set up the bridge position.
After Rb8 white just goes Rd1 and you dont have enough checks as black.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #50 - 11/13/06 at 17:52:13
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Yes John, Ke8 is the answer to Ra7.
... and was what Aronian played (then Carlsen resigned)
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #49 - 11/13/06 at 17:38:50
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This position came up in Neil Berry-Andrew Martin, 4NCL a while ago. I was watching my team mate NB, who held comfortably as Black (in fact he was White, but anyway) with two minutes left on his clock for the rest of the game. I was impressed at the time, but I didn't realise Neil ought to be at this level on this form.

I was watching with Richard Webb. I had no idea what Black should play, although I had the idea Richard was probably a bit better educated than me. I too remembered Rd6 as being cunning but no more than that. You can see why ...Kg6 is counterintuitive, can't you? I suppose that's the only function of the rook on the sixth, to make ....Kg6 seem dangerous?

(I assume after ....Ra7 it's not Rd7 that wins but Ke8; is that right? Otherwise I can't see what Black would do if the rook were not on d6 but d1.)
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #48 - 11/13/06 at 17:25:34
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First,
Strange all of U are talking about Rb8? Because that move was never played.... Roll Eyes (Carlsen played Ra7+)

Second,
Of course Carlsen knew this ending....
I have bigger mistakes (even at this level) before!
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #47 - 11/13/06 at 09:00:54
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Klick wrote on 11/12/06 at 17:15:24:
Interesting position in Tal Memorial today

http://aycu35.webshots.com/image/6394/2000954329495638095_rs.jpg
Aronian-Carlsen


Black blundered and lost after Rb8?? Kg6 was the only correct move. I remember looking at this a few years ago and that Rd6 was a tricky move that Black had to show great care against.

Are you serious?
Seems like the spoiled little brat should get some endgame lessons Wink
This position is in most endgame books I know of. I think even including Flear's improve your endgame which is aimed at about 1600-1700 elo.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #46 - 11/12/06 at 22:01:24
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Yes, my Averbakh endgame CD also has this ending, also with the Rd6!? try. In my database I have found 2 games that reached this position (Van Der Sterren - Kuijf 1983 and Van Ho - Orr 1992). In both cases black, which were master strength players, went for ...Rb8? and lost.
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #45 - 11/12/06 at 21:01:31
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Yes this is a chess classic - Speelman's ending book calls it 'white's most cunning move'.

This is ending is actually quite tough to defend in practice. I am surprised that Carlsen didn't seem to know it !

Finally it would be good to have an endgame section and maybe also one for combinations !! Here's hoping and Tony K are you watching?

All the best 

Andrew
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #44 - 11/12/06 at 19:15:12
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Klck, 

I haven't actually looked, but isn't this exact position covered in Rook Endings by Levenfisch and Smyslov????

I too remember studying this position and specifically remember ...Rb8 was a losing move.

  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #43 - 11/12/06 at 17:15:24
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Interesting position in Tal Memorial today


Aronian-Carlsen


Black blundered and lost after Rb8?? Kg6 was the only correct move. I remember looking at this a few years ago and that Rd6 was a tricky move that Black had to show great care against.
« Last Edit: 11/12/06 at 18:43:22 by Klick »  

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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #42 - 06/03/06 at 11:24:04
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Well it's worth ressurecting to add fuel to a desire for an Endgame section on Chesspub Smiley

As for endgame study, I've got by fine with Howell's "Essential Chess Endings" which concentrates on the typical endings which are most likely to occur in practice, and includes sussinct sections on QvR and R+BvR discussed in this thread. I've got Shereshevsky's Endgame strategy and Fundamental Chess Endings, but they are both still on my "to read" pile.

A while back I went through my games, picked out the ones that reached (non-trivial win) endings, and then worked out my rating performance from them. It came to about the same as my actual grade, so my endgame knowledge, though with much scope for improvement, isn't a problem at the moment on limited study.
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #41 - 06/02/06 at 21:41:59
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Is it true? Is it really almost a whole year since anyone posted anything here?! What a scandal!  Angry 

Let me revive this thread gently by challenging you all in a QUIZ : http://www.arrakis.es/~lago/tests/basrook/basrook1b.htm
  

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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #40 - 07/18/05 at 00:09:38
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Boy, this is embarrassing Embarrassed   

MNb, you are right, I don't have the correct move number.  After 40.b4 Rf7! 41.Rh6 (I'll look at an earlier Ke3, but I don't think it will work), Black is still better after 41...Ke5 42.Ke3.  Unfortunately, it isn't enough to win.  Concrete variations to follow.
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #39 - 07/17/05 at 21:19:45
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Do you have the correct position in front? 
39.Bd2 Kd6 40.b4 Ke5 is not legitimate because of the White rook on h5.
Moreover you also have to find a Black win after 39.Ke3 Kd6 40.Bc3 and 41.b4.
My conclusion remains: a solid draw.
  

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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #38 - 07/17/05 at 17:45:35
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Ok,

Here's my most up-to-date conclusions about the endgame we've been looking at.  Following on from 40...Ke5, there is only one move, as far as I can tell, that doesn't lose more or less instantly for White.  White can't move either his B or R, and pawn moves only help Black, so he has to play 41.Ke3! gaining the opposition and threatening moves such as Rh5+ and Bc3+.  The obvious ways forward for Black all force immediate draws or even lose.  I am at an impasse here, and despite having earlier stated that I thought Black was winning, I can't find any way to prove it right now. Embarrassed  I'd still prefer to play Black, but I don't see a way to make progress.  And if Black can't use his initiative, then the game really is drawn.  Bummer.  Sad If you want specific lines, let me know.  They're pretty straightforward, unless of course I'm missing something.

Cheers!
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #37 - 07/11/05 at 06:14:27
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"This has really been interesting"
What do you mean? It still is. I will take a look at 39.Bd2 Kd6 40.b4 Ke5.
I do not agree with you on the subject of trading pieces. My point is, that after exchanging rooks White gets chances to create a second passed pawn on the a-file and can advance the passed f-pawn. The king will block on d3. This way White makes optimal use of the long-ranged bishop. I think you underestimate the power of the bishop vs the knight in endings with pawns on all fronts.
At the other hand I must admit, that I feel more comfortable in light-piece endings than in rook endings, so I am not sure who is prejudiced after all.
I must say, that I am a bit disappointed about the lack of interest among other regular writers. First I read so many posts about the importance of endgame skills. Now I am one of the very few involved in and endgame debate?!
  

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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #36 - 07/10/05 at 23:11:59
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MNb wrote
Quote:
39.Bd2 Kd6 40.b4 b6 41.Rh6 Ke5 42.Rh5+ Kd4 43.Rh6 as Re7 44.Be3+ Kc4 45.Bxb6 Kxb4 46.Rh4+ is clearly better for White? 


Yes, I agree.

My previous note had the wrong move number.  I am pretty sure that Black only draws after 40...b6.  Instead, 40...Ke5 (not 41....Ke5 as I previously wrote) remains unclear.  I still think BLACK has enough winning chances to continue playing, but this is a critical improvement for White.   

If it goes into a Rook ending, I think the drawing chances skyrocket but if White carelessly trades rooks, keeping the minor pieces on, without creating a passer on the Q-side, he probably loses.  I've looked at some possible pawn endings, and White's king is just too passively placed to survive any pure pawn endings unless he can get that a-pawn passed or win the h-pawn for the b-pawn.   

This has really been interesting, Cheesy I'd like to see more strong players analyse these endgames with us.  I'm sure that a thorough study of this endgame could take weeks, Cry and the more thoughtful players we have working on this, the better! 8)

  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #35 - 07/10/05 at 22:21:44
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What about 39.Bd2 Kd6 40.b4 b6 41.Rh6 Ke5 42.Rh5+ Kd4 43.Rh6 as Re7 44.Be3+ Kc4 45.Bxb6 Kxb4 46.Rh4+ is clearly better for White?
And 39.Ke3 Kd6 40.Bc3 Rf7 41.b4 is not solved either - here no march via d4.

Kevinludwig: I am interested indeed - I guess, that White starts with 39.f3 ?

Smyslov_fan: I am looking forward to it. It does not happen that often, that I get endgame training for free!
  

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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #34 - 07/10/05 at 16:34:54
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@Kevinludwig:

That's an interesting position, let's devote another thread to it so we don't get confused.

Regarding the Korchnoi-Ponomariov position, 

We seem to agree that the critical position lies in the variation Bd2 with b4.

Here's the position:

White:  Kf2 Rh5 Bd2
Pawns:  a4 b4 f3 h2

Black: Kd6 Rg7 Ne6
Pawns:  b7, c6 d5 h7

BLACK TO MOVE


Here's what I first wrote:

I think Black's chances of winning are greater than White's chances of drawing after
40...b6. Shocked  This threatens c5, and the resulting pawn structure is, if anything, even worse for White than what happened in the game!  

I've now checked the variations with Fritz, and this time, 41.Rh6 is actually a good move for White!  It threatens both Bf4 and Be3 (hitting the "wonderful" pawn on b6).  This is enough to wipe out most of Black's winning chances.  If Black tries too hard to win this position, he could even lose!  

Therefore, after 41.Rh6! Ke5 looks just about forced instead of pushing the b-pawn.  There are two ideas at work for Black here: a) unpin the N without blocking the rook's path to the a-file b) advance the king, via e5-d4-c4 to the Q-side and try to weaken things from behind.  Of course, timing is everything, but I still like Black's chances.  If I was Black I would certainly play on.  My guess is that Black has about a 40% winning chance, 35% drawing chance, and 15% losing chance.  At the highest levels, those losing chances diminish down to near zero, but I still like Black's chances (slightly) to win.


BTW:  On Tuesday, I'll come up with another endgame from TWIC and start it on a separate thread. Smiley
« Last Edit: 07/10/05 at 23:00:24 by Smyslov_Fan »  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #33 - 07/10/05 at 00:32:11
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I have another ending for everyone to consider:
White has pawns on f2, g3, h4, a6. Ke3, Ra7.
Black has pawns on f7, g6, h5, Kf6, Ra2.
The position occurred in Tal-Gipslis, 1983. Tal played 1. Ra8 and the game was soon drawn. But it turns out that white is winning. 

There is actually published analysis on this, and I first saw it a few years ago, and spent a while looking at it. The position is interesting, because it is the sort of thing that might come up in a real game. I'll tell where the analysis is online if there is any interest.
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #32 - 07/08/05 at 00:28:42
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Not that this adds much to the discussion, but I also came to the conclusion that everything looked correct up to move 39. Then my first guess was 39. Bb6, since it tries to hold up the pawns with the bishop, followed by 40. b4. Then I decided that maybe 39. Bd2 would place the bishop better, so 39. Bd2 Kd6 40. b4. (Exactly what Mnb came up with). This looks pretty easy to draw. Fritz wants to play 40. c5, but liquidating the queenside pawns is just what white wants. If all the queenside pawns come off, black is left with a passed d-pawn, and this isn't enough for a win, because white's king is well placed to blockade the pawn (which basically guarantees the draw in any rook ending).
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #31 - 07/07/05 at 05:35:22
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For one thing White must prevent the pawn roller and play b4. Without a board I am not certain, but 39.Bd2 Kd6 40.b4 is the first thing I will look at. Compare 39.Ke3 Kd6 40.Bc3 Rf7 41.b4. I am not sure, if the bishop is better on c3 or on d2.
Fritz' 39.Bd2 Kd6 40.a5? definitely sucks, as it rules out any counterplay with b4-b5 and puts a pawn on a black square. So does b2-b4, but the difference is that c6-c5 is hindered and that b4-b5 remains possible.

A few hours later, with a board, it is clear to me that b2-b4 preventing c6-c5 is the key move to equality.
« Last Edit: 07/07/05 at 20:37:27 by MNb »  

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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #30 - 07/06/05 at 23:27:38
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Here's a sample line that I found with the help of Fritz.

39.  Bd2! Kd6 40.a5 (Fritz) c5! 41.Rh6 (White is in virtual zugzwang.  I don't know what else White can do here.) Rf7 42.Ke3 Kd7 (d4?? 43.Ke4! +/- or even winning for White) 43.Rh5 Nf4! 44.Rh6 Ng6! and now Fritz plays the horrible looking 45.b4 but couldn't hold the ending in a quick analysis.
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #29 - 07/06/05 at 23:09:03
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Thanks, MNb, for including the entire game.  BTW, it was the 8th and penultimate, not final round.   

I made an even more important mistake:  I meant to type:  e6, not e7.  With the pawn on e7, it is 

BLACK to MOVE

MNb, your suggested improvement certainly seems to gain a tempo on the line played, and Fritz prefers it to 39.Bb4+  However, I don't see how it actually improves White's position enough to save the game.  Black is threatening to attack the f-file with the N and R.  In this particular game, I would definitely prefer the centralised N to the peripheral B, and Korchnoi obviously felt the same way. 

What this means is that I think if White has salvation it will be precisely in the Rook and Pawn ending that you found so distasteful.  White neeeds to slow down the c-pawn.  I think his fatal error was playing b4, allowing Black to create the monster passers.

My main question is, after 34. e7 Ke7 35.Rxf5+ Kxe7 36.Rh5 Rg8+ 37.Kf2 Rg7 38.Bxa5 Ne6 (all in the game)

What does White do after 39.Bd2! (MNb) Kd6, as Ponomariov would almost certainly have continued?  How does he avoid getting steamrolled in the center and Q-side with the play 40...b5, 41...c5 42....c4?

Does White try to play passively with b3?  I don't see that working out very well either.  Ideas?
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #28 - 07/06/05 at 21:43:21
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First the entire game, for those who have not downloaded it:

Korchnoi,V (2619) - Ponomariov,R (2695) [E01]
Pivdenny Bank Geller Mem Odessa UKR (8), 03.07.2005

1.c4 Pf6 2.d4 e6 3.g3 d5 4.Lg2 Lb4+ 5.Pd2 0-0 6.Dc2 Pc6 7.Pgf3 dxc4 8.Dxc4 Dd5 9.0-0 Lxd2 10.Dxd5 exd5 11.Lxd2 Te8 12.Tfe1 Lg4 13.Le3 Pe4 14.Tac1 Te7 15.Pe5 Ld7 16.Pxd7 Txd7 17.f3 Pd6 18.Lf2 a5 19.Tc5 Pe7 20.Lh3 f5 21.e4 c6 22.Tc2 g6 23.e5 Pb5 24.g4 Tf8 25.a4 Pc7 26.e6 Tdd8 27.Lh4 Tde8 28.Te5 fxg4 29.Lxg4 Tf4 30.Td2 Pf5 31.Lg5 Txd4 32.Lxf5 Txd2 33.Lxd2 gxf5 34.e7 Kf7 35.Txf5+ Kxe7 36.Th5 Tg8+ 37.Kf2 Tg7 38.Lxa5 Pe6 39.Lb4+ c5 40.Ld2 Kd6 41.Tf5 d4 42.h4 b5 43.axb5 Tb7 44.b4 c4 45.Lf4+ Pxf4 46.Txf4 Ke5 47.Tg4 h6 48.Tg8 Txb5 49.Te8+ Kf5 50.Td8 d3 51.Td4 Txb4 52.Ke3 Ke5 53.h5 Ta4 54.f4+ Kf5 55.Td5+ Kg4 56.Tc5 Tb4 57.Tc6 Kxh5 58.f5 Kg5 59.f6 Kg6 60.f7+ Kxf7 61.Txh6 Tb2 62.Th1 Tc2 63.Tb1 d2 64.Ke2 c3 65.Kd1 Ta2 66.Ke2 d1D+ 0-1

Smyslov_Fan gives the position after White's 34th move.
My proposal is to deviate at move 39. I do not understand, why Kortsnoj provoked the advance of Black's centre pawns, the main trump. Fatigue? Miscalculation?
39.Bd2 d4 40.b4 looks like an improved version of the game.
Another option is 39.Ke3 in order to centralize the king first, eg Kd6 40.Bc3 Rf7 41.b4.
White should not exchange his bishop for the Black knight, as there are pawns on all three fronts. Exchanging rooks though looks desirable, but I do not see how. White can think of a well-timed b4-b5 and perhaps, perhaps, advancing his f-pawn. IMO White keeps good prospects for a draw.
The rook endgame at move 46, 47 is terrible for White.
  

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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #27 - 07/06/05 at 20:45:59
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Wow, that was easy! Shocked

I just went to the Geller Memorial Tournament games that just finished, and came up with some very interesting examples.  In rounds four and five respectively, Viktor Korchnoi lost, then won a Q+B+Ps ending with same colored Bishops and minus one pawn.  Instead of those two games, I decided on a third Korchnoi game, his last round loss to Ruslan Ponomariov.  I took a *very* quick look at the game in Fritz, and decided that it's sufficiently complex and interesting enough for us to analyse and still be instructional.

(If someone could provide a diagram, I'd appreciate it.)

Korchnoi-Ponomariov, 2005
White:  Kg1 Re5 Bd2
            Ps:  a4 b2 e7 f3 h2
Black:  Kg8 Re8 Nc7
            Ps:  a5 b7 c6 d5 f5 h7

White to move.

Intro info:  White lost this game after temporarily losing  a pawn, and then trading into a pure rook ending to regain the pawn.  However, Black had connected passers on the c+d files, which ended up deciding the game.  Let's see if we can't find any improvements for GM Korchnoi!
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #26 - 07/06/05 at 20:21:35
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Ok, here's an idea... 

(My computer won't let me access Blitzen right now, so I can't play on ICC Angry)

Let's pick a complex endgame that hasn't been analysed to death and break it down for each other.  We try to choose one new one each week or so, and we give diagrams.  That is, once I learn how to do that! Embarrassed   I'll go through TWIC today and try to pick one that seems interesting to me.  What do you all think?
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #25 - 07/06/05 at 12:50:36
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I for one find endgames pretty boring & dry stuff.

But though I hate to say it..... I hv to agree with Capa. "Study the endgame 1st" The endings are an essential part of the game these days cos defensive techniques and middlegame play are so good there are no longer anymore rapid kills in the middlegame as seen in the days of Morphy et al. (maybe even Tal)

I'm about 1700 rating. When I was competitive like 20 yrs ago I payed a lot of attention to openings only. My regret was that i did not study middlegame and endings. So i lost quite a nomber of games. Very often also i would lose even though i had a better position cos i didnt know how to handle the ending.

So if you are ambitious and are shooting for the GM & Im titles, there is really no excuse to avoid studying it. or if you are like me... just intending to play a good game and beat friends , internet players or even the computer, it is still essential if you want to win. Many an internet game i won even though i blundered badly in the opening or middlegame cos my opponent couldnt handle the ending properly (not that i was any good, its just that i knew a minute something & he knew 0). But all i know abt the ending is still just scratching the suface or less. I still dont quite get Kotov's statement in 'Think like a grandmaster' when he speaks of the ending as thinking in terms of schemes (or something to that effect)

perhaps its a good idea to have a forum on endings (or even middlegames) if possible. I personally feel that endings and middlegame are actually more impt than the opening, cos proper play there would ensure a win. The opening & all its latest lines is just a means to get to the middlegame in a so called favourable position. But how one handles that so called advantage to convert it to a win is quite another story.  In this sense I pretty much agree with Klick.& Akavall
  

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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #24 - 06/27/05 at 13:56:22
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Klick:
I am registered as kevinludwig through chesspublishing. My ICC handle is also kevinludwig. I'm up for playing some endings on ICC.
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #23 - 06/27/05 at 13:25:36
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If anyone is interested in playing this endgame with me on ICC and later on maybe other endgames for training, send me an instant message or post. 

Kevin: I wanted to send you an instant message and suggest we met at ICC to play through the ending against each other. However, you haven`t registered, so instant messaging isn`t possible.
  

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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #22 - 06/27/05 at 11:48:22
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I received Fundamental Chess Endings in the mail today and it looks like a good book. Of course I immediately looked up on the B+R+K vs. R+K ending to see what it says. It devotes about 5 pages to this ending and mentions three main positions for the defender. The most important are the Cochrane position (defence) and the 2nd rank defence. 

Now the Cochrane-defence should suffice to draw alone. It does not look hard to play. It is based on the defender pinning the bishop and the attacker having problems unpinning it.



I`ve tried playing against Fritz a couple of times with draw as a result (turning off tablebases, otherwise it does not make sensible moves), but I guess it is better to play against some human opponents.

Now there is just one thing that baffles me. Do not players such as Nijboer and Onischuk know how to draw this? Apparently Nijober did not, as he had the Cochrane position, but did not play into it again when he had the chance. And how come the superior side wins so many games when the drawing-technique can be so  "simple" ?

Obviously even very strong players don`t know about proper defence in this ending..  Strange stuff.



« Last Edit: 06/27/05 at 13:15:53 by Klick »  

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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #21 - 06/26/05 at 21:44:42
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Smyslov_Fan:
for me it is the opposite. I am really better in piece endings than in rook endings and my rating in OTB play is considerably lower than yours. But I don't how I have done it; I never put much effort in piece endings. It is possible, that having studied and played classical development gambits, in which the light cavalries immediately clash, plays an important role.
I am asking for a lot of criticism now and maybe this is utter nonsense. But I have always felt that there are similarities: active piece play, grabbing the initiative, using threats, looking for decisive tactics. The few general principles are easy to understand and apply.

Kevinludwig: this title does not ring a bell. Has Hooper translated and reworked some Euwe book(s) or have they really worked together?
  

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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #20 - 06/26/05 at 03:24:39
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Smyslov_Fan:
My experience is similar to yours. Except you sound a bit higher rated. I have spent time on rook endings and some time on king and pawn endings. The minor piece endings I have only studied from the perspective of general principles. I had not heard that knowledge of these was an indication of strength.

Mnb: 
The book is "A Guide to Chess Endings", by Euwe and Hooper. 
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #19 - 06/26/05 at 00:35:27
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I love the idea of an endgame forum!   

I have a question that may be just me, but I suspect otherwise:

I don't know why, but (compared to others who are in the high expert/low master group 2100-2300 elo) my Rook endings seem very good, but my minor piece endings are very weak.   While I am proud of my abilities in Rook endings (and others seem to think I'm just a better endgame player than they are because of my Rook endings), I am embarrassed by my minor piece play especially because I read that skill in minor piece play is perhaps the best indicator of chess strength.

Do many of you have similar strengths and weaknesses in the endgame?  And for those of you who have successfully mastered minor piece endings, HOW did you do it?  What's the secret?  If it were just a matter of reading, or playing into the endgames online, I'd be fine.  There must be more, but what?
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #18 - 06/25/05 at 21:22:50
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"So I felt it really could be mastered by anybody with a book and enough motivation."
You should have added: and enough time.

Euwe was a teacher in mathematics. He choose his examples exactly for the educational reasons Kevin has described so well: not to remember the exact positions, but to improve the general abilities.
So Euwe's book was a success. If it is the one I think it is, I must say though, that Averbach's book IMHO was still better.

"I suspect that the rapid time limits now in vogue serve to undermine the endgame technique of many players."
I agree, though I support abandoning adjournments. But in a way this statement supports rapid time limits: players with the better endgame technique should take benefit in general.
  

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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #17 - 06/24/05 at 15:17:09
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Mnb: 
I'm not sure what to say except explain my experience with rook endings. I spent a couple of years (leisurely) going through the rook endings portion of a book by Euwe (don't recall the title at the moment). Although I only remember a handful of positions (maybe less!), my ability in rook endings is vastly improved--and I would guess that it helped to improve my OTB rating by 200-400 points (keep in mind that I am still only about 1890 USCF). Whether it is "patterns", or "concepts" that I have gained--I'm not sure. But I do know that it was one of the most productive things study-wise that I ever did. 

So this means that I agree with Markovich that studying technical endings is important...even though I don't think it's essential that you actually remember all of them to realize big improvements in your game.

Also...the reason that endings appealed to me, was that I didn't know how to improve my middlegame. But I felt that the ending was more or less science. You have exact positions, with exact winning methods. So I felt it really could be mastered by anybody with a book and enough motivation.
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #16 - 06/24/05 at 12:51:45
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Quote:
There are two types of endgame study. Endgame planning (as exmplified by Sherevshevsky's Endgame Strategy, Aagaard's Excelling at Technical Chess, and some of Dvoretsky's works) is for me far more relevant and interesting than studying technical endgames (which make up most endgame books e.g. Fundamental Chess Endings).

I also think studying endgames arising from openings from your repertoire is most useful. One just needs to go through as many annotated games as possible. This is where New in Chess yearbooks are most useful.   


I think that actually, it's more important to study the technical endings.  So often, you have to know whether a given simplified position is won or drawn -- and have some idea of how to do it!  I don't see how anyone can be much good in "strategic" endgame play without the technical knowledge.

Besides studying technical endings, I think you have to keep restudying them -- unless you play a great deal of slow chess.  For me at least, it's easy to forget this stuff.

Once during a tournament, I was a pawn down in K+R versus K+R+P.  I had studied this ending very considerably but, perhaps due to stress, I just could not remember the drawing technique in the given position.  Fortunately, the game was adjourned, and before the replay, I simply went to the book store, looked at a rook ending book without even bothering to buy it, and rediscovered the drawing technique.  The game was drawn.  I hope that since that happened during adjournment, it was legal.

The funny thing is that I have a very vidid recollection of that one certain way of making a draw.  I think that if I had played a great many endings during my life, I would now have a much, much better command of endgame technique.

I suspect that the rapid time limits now in vogue serve to undermine the endgame technique of many players.
  

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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #15 - 06/24/05 at 05:21:15
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"studying tactics is important and useful, even if you have never had, or never will have, the positions in the diagram"
Because of pattern recognition - widely recognized as the factor which determines playing strength - studying tactics immediately improves your play. How does this work with the many special cases in endgames, like Klick's diagram above, or with the final position in my game?
Klick, you are right about Be3. Now I remember that Nio Bertholee told me the same 8 years ago.
  

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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #14 - 06/24/05 at 00:58:07
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(Akavall, you can insert a diagram by clicking on the image-button when writing a message. You have to refer to an image-file somewhere on the internet by entering the URL of the image. Interesting game by the way.)
_____________________________________________

Of course, MNb and I are entitled to disagree. That is why discussions are useful, exchanging views. In that way we learn about the world and what`s in it.

I just want to reiterate that I think the true value of endgame-skills is that this transfers to your middlegame-skills as you know what to trade down for. Akavall also has a good point.

You don`t need to study 10hrs a day to become decent at the ending, unless you spend 9 1/2 of them on the opening and study by playing blitz on ICC. There is a limited amount of positions that you do have to know to play the endgame decently and it will take you less time looking at these than learning, for instance, some of the lines of the Najdorf-defence.

In the game-example MNb - Arp, is not Be3 in the ending-position, pinning the rook, a simple draw as the black king cannot leave g5?

All that said I very much understand that it is important to prioritize and I totally agree. There is not much point going beyond the Lucena, Philidor and how to win/draw against a single pawn if your time is more wisely spent on the opening. One probably experience a shift in what one benefits from as one become a stronger player. 

My interest in the endgame stems not only from the fact that I think it is useful, but also because I find it interesting and fun! And I play chess for enjoyment.

By the way, thanks for the book-suggestions Kevin!
 
  

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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #13 - 06/24/05 at 00:13:58
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Here is a game where I lost half a point due to lack on endgame knowledge. http://www.teamchess.org/pgnplayer/pgnplayer.php?ID=2290&Board=1

A careless 30...b4 lets white get into drawn position. 30...Ba2 should've won. After the game I talked to my opponent and he though I missed  31. Nh6 fork, but I didn't I saw it and I thought he wouldn't play it because trading down would be 'good for me'. Btw, I didn't know any opening theory in this line.
(And how do you install a diagram?)

I think endgame is important, because it lets you learn about the pieces themselves, what they like or don't like and what they are capable of doing. So it is imortant to learn it not just for endgame sake, but for overall understanding of chess as well. 

I would rather get a tough position out of the opening and simplify it to the drawn endgame and hold the draw. Then get a good position out of the opening, and then let the advantage evaporate during the transition from middle game to the endgame. I know result is the same, but I would prefer the 1st scenario, would just feel better.

Having said all that, we all play for fun and we should do what's fun for us when studying as well. 
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #12 - 06/23/05 at 22:34:40
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Mnb: I have the book "Combination Challenge!", which has some positions on the cover with the caption "How would you have played these positions?". A guy I work with saw my book and laughed out loud, saying "Hmmm...I don't know. I've NEVER had those positions!". As you and I know, it turns out that studying tactics is important and useful, even if you have never had, or never will have, the positions in the diagram(s). And I would argue that the same is true of endings. But, after all, chess isn't a job. So study what you enjoy. Not everybody is going to think that rook endings are "fun".
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #11 - 06/23/05 at 22:08:44
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I find Klick's argument not very convincing.

"In the following winning position a world-elite player once assessed the endgame after rookexchange with Rf5 and Rxg5 as won. To his great surprise it only drawed. Would be nice to know before playing it, not?"

How often will this position occur in my games? I am an amateur, not even a strong one. I cannot afford to study chess 10 hours a day. So I have to make some choices. And I will not chose endgames, which might only occur once in my lifetime and maybe not even that.
Let me put it the other way round, with an example of my own practice.

MNb - Arp,F [C48]
AKN Open-6 Haarlem (4), 1997

1.e4 e5 2.Pc3 Pf6 3.Pf3 Pc6 4.Lb5 Lc5 5.Pxe5 Lxf2+ 6.Kxf2 Pxe5 7.Tf1 Pfg4+ 8.Kg1 Dh4 9.h3 Dg3 10.hxg4 Pxg4 11.Tf3 Dh2+ 12.Kf1 Dh1+ 13.Ke2 Dxg2+ 14.Ke1 c6 15.Lf1 Dg1 16.Pe2 Dh2 17.d4 Dh4+ 18.Kd2 d5 19.e5 Pf2 20.Txf2 Dxf2 21.De1 Dxe1+ 22.Kxe1 h5 23.Pg1 Lf5 24.c3 f6 25.exf6 gxf6 26.Lf4 Kf7 27.Kf2 h4 28.Ph3 Thg8 29.Te1 Le4 30.Lh2 Tg4 31.Pf4 Tag8 32.Lh3 f5 33.b4 T4g5 34.a3 a5 35.bxa5 Ta8 36.Te2 Txa5 37.Tb2 b5 38.Ta2 Tg8 39.Pe2 Ke7 40.Lf4 Ta7 41.Ta1 Ke6 42.Lh6 Tga8 43.Lc1 Kf6 44.Pg1 Ta4 45.Pe2 b4 46.cxb4 Txb4 47.axb4 Txa1 48.Le3 Ta2 49.Ke1 Tb2 50.Ld2 Tb3 51.Pf4 Lf3 52.Kf2 Lg4 53.Le3 Tb2+ 54.Kg1 Txb4 55.Kh2 Tb3 56.Lf2 Kg5 57.Pe6+ Kh6 58.Pf4 Tf3 59.Kg2 Txf4 0-1

Immediately after the game specatator Rob Nio Bertholee showed me how I could have drawn, based on an idea derived from some study - since long I have forgotten which one. Yes, it would have been nice having known before resigning. But how many studies should I have learned, just to pick up this one and saving a half point? With the chance, that I would have forgotten it at that time, especially as I had only less than a minute on my clock.
What I am trying to say is this. I do not advocate neglecting the endgame. But as I do not play chess to make a living, missing an half point now or then is not the end of the world. One must realize, that most of my losses are not caused by lacking endgame knowledge, but by lacking middle game skills. At the other hand, averagely I do not play the endgame worse than my opponents, especially of equal strength. The two times I have played against titled ones, I did not even survive the transition from opening to the middle game ...
Opening theory is not the alpha and omega of chess, but neither is the endgame.

So I fully agree with Inn2 and strongly will consider buying the titles he mentioned.
  

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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #10 - 06/23/05 at 20:29:01
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There are two types of endgame study. Endgame planning (as exmplified by Sherevshevsky's Endgame Strategy, Aagaard's Excelling at Technical Chess, and some of Dvoretsky's works) is for me far more relevant and interesting than studying technical endgames (which make up most endgame books e.g. Fundamental Chess Endings).

I also think studying endgames arising from openings from your repertoire is most useful. One just needs to go through as many annotated games as possible. This is where New in Chess yearbooks are most useful.  
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #9 - 06/23/05 at 18:48:02
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Dont disagree with the sentiment, but studying endgames on your own isnt the best way. There are often so many possibilities that just studying doesnt work, you have to see why certain (sometimes stupid) things dont work.

For example the diagram from Klick, I would never ever go into that pawn endgame for the simple fact that you dont have the opposition and pawn exchanges screw you up. I wouldnt know how to win the rook endgame, but I would start with Ra3.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #8 - 06/23/05 at 17:17:38
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There is a large chapter in "Secrets of Pawnless Endings" on your "headache" ending. But I have found the coverage in "Fundamental Chess Endings" to be sufficient.
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #7 - 06/23/05 at 16:00:14
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I honestly think that a chess-player miss out on a lot by neglecting endgame-play. The true value of endgame-knowledge is not in playing out the positions themselves, but in the fact that you, if you have such knowledge, then in the middlegame will be able to assess how to trade down to a drawn or won endgame. I cannot stress this enough. It is not enough to be able to assess the endgame when you first are there, but you must assess possible arising endgames already in the middlegame and sometimes before. What if you in the middlegame are obviously worse, but then see a possibility of sacrificing a bishop for your opponents remaining pawns, resulting in a theoretically drawn position? Not much help if you don`t know how to defend it, is it?  Nijboer-Volkov and Kosteniuk-Onischuk being perfect examples. The same applies to the Rook vs Queen endgame. (Svidler had obviously not looked much at this endgame and subsequently were not able to win). When you are again obviously worse you could find yourself sacrificing to reach such an ending, but not much help if you don`t know how to make the most of it. These are just piece-endings, which are "relatively" seldom.  But somewhat the same applies for "simple" things like pawn-endings which are often not simple at all. And rook-endings often balance on the edge of win, draw or loss. 

In the following winning position a world-elite player once assessed the endgame after rookexchange with Rf5 and Rxg5 as won. To his great surprise it only drawed. Would be nice to know before playing it, not? 





I allow myself to quote Chris Baker from his book Learn from your chess-mistakes:"In my opinion, the ending is the one part of the game that really `sorts out the men from the boys`. Having had to `fight`their way through the opening and middlegame, in the ending many people just go through the motions. Part of the reason for this is that with reduced material on the board players seem to feel that the play has become trivialised and that the outcome to the game should be `obvious`. With this sort of attitude they are setting themselves up for a fall."

I couldn`t agree more and I rejoice when realizing how many neglect this part of the game. If I don`t beat them in the middlegame, I will in the endgame.  Grin   And I really do think that I learn more on how to play chess by studying the endgame than by studying the opening. I become a stronger player by studying the endgame. By studying the opening too much I can become what Ignacio Marin calls an erudite and not much more.

___________________________________________

With regards to the "headache ending" am I having a hard time finding some material on it. Reuben Fine`s "Basic Chess Endings" is not really very instructive or enlightening. On the internet I have just found some general discussions along the lines "How many moves needed to win from this position?" I will keep looking though. Maybe Dvoretsky or Karsten Muller`s books have something useful on it?  8)

____________________________________________

R+K vs. R+K+2pawns (bishop & rook pawn on the same side) would surely be fun and interesting to look at some time. Fine says;

" The drawing idea is simply this: "White cannot hold on to both Pawns if he wishes to try to win, but must sacrifice one of them to divert the Black King. It stands to reason that he will sacrifice the RP. But we have already seen that R+BP vs. R is a draw when the Black King is on the edge of the board except for one special position. Consequently Black need only avoid this special position to draw."

___________________________________________



  

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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #6 - 06/23/05 at 15:28:35
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Endings can be fun to practice...when I first learned the N+B+K vs. K, my friends and I would play 2 minutes to a side from arbitrary positions. When you get pretty good at it, 2 minutes is plenty of time to get the mate. R+B+K vs. R+K could also be fun that way. Another fun one would be R+K vs. R+K+2pawns (bishop & rook pawn on the same side): That is supposed to be a draw but sometimes GM's lose.
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #5 - 06/23/05 at 08:56:01
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Of course endgame skills are as important as opening knowledge. The big problem with studying endgames, is that some specific times so seldom occur. I have never had an endgame of K+2B or 2N versus K. I have never had an endgame of K+R versus K+B or N either. So I simply do not understand why spending hours and hours to learn them.
As far as I know there are only few books on practical endgame play. One of the first was Averbach's What every player should know about the endgame. That little book took me about two hours and gave me enough elementary knowledge to avoid playing like a gorilla.
So my opinion: most endgames must be studied for fun in the first place, not for practice, including the "headache endgame" of this thread. I am curious to learn about other opinions.
  

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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #4 - 06/22/05 at 21:56:43
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It will be nice to see more instructional material on Chesspub, even on the endgame (perhaps on the gold plus section). There was an interesting article in New in Chess on Bahr's rules many years ago. It was the first time someone got me interested in the endgame, which was really quite a feat for a young kid.
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #3 - 06/22/05 at 16:39:30
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I got the ending once and lost. That was after I had studied the ending a little bit, but I forgot the method during the game. I had originally studied the "Cochrane defence", because the endgame book I read said this was the defence that "most GM's preferred." So I should prefer it too, right?! Well...

The cochrane defence from what I remember, is this ~15 move sequence that leads to the position being rotated 90 degrees. And so if you keep playing the defence, the repetition of position or the 50 move rule kicks in. Essentially there is no way for the side with the bishop to make progress. But try remembering those 15 moves 6 months after you first looked at it.

The other defence is the "second-rank defence", which involves a stalemate trick that is available just when it appears that the defender is going to get mated. Much easier to remember, but I looked at it over a year ago, and I must admit, I'm not sure if I would do any better than I did last time. 

Maybe these same reasons are why even the GM's sometimes lose that ending.

I would be interested in playing the ending with 5 minutes to a side on ICC several times. That's probably the only way it will stick with me...since repetition is the mother of all learning, and all that...
  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #2 - 06/22/05 at 15:52:51
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Here is another game which resulted in the R+B vs. R, and again the side with R+B won.


[Event "Corus-B"]
[Site "Wijk aan Zee"]
[Date "2005.01.15"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Kosteniuk,Alexandra"]
[Black "Onischuk,Alexander"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Eco "C65"]
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.0-0 Bc5 5.c3 0-0 6.d4 Bb6 7.Bg5 h6 8.Bh4 d6 
9.Qd3 Bd7 10.Nbd2 a6 11.Bc4 exd4 12.cxd4 g5 13.e5 gxh4 14.Qg6+ Kh8 15.Qxh6+ Nh7 16.Ne4 f5 
17.Nfg5 Qe7 18.Nf6 Qg7 19.Qxh7+ Qxh7 20.Ngxh7 Rfd8 21.Ng5 dxe5 22.Nf7+ Kg7 23.dxe5 Nxe5 24.Nh5+ Kg6 
25.Nxe5+ Kxh5 26.Be2+ Kg5 27.Nf7+ Kf6 28.Nxd8 Rxd8 29.Rad1 Re8 30.Bf3 Bc8 31.Rfe1 Rg8 32.Bd5 Rh8 
33.Bb3 Bc5 34.Rd3 Bd6 35.Bd5 b6 36.g3 Bd7 37.Rf3 Rh5 38.Re4 hxg3 39.hxg3 f4 40.Rfxf4+ Bxf4 
41.Rxf4+ Ke7 42.Rd4 c5 43.Rd2 b5 44.f4 c4 45.Kf2 a5 46.Ke3 Rh3 47.Rg2 Rh1 48.a4 b4 
49.Bxc4 Bxa4 50.g4 Bc6 51.Rg3 Re1+ 52.Kd2 Rb1 53.b3 a4 54.Re3+ Kf8 55.bxa4 Bxa4 56.Bd3 Rb2+ 
57.Kc1 Rg2 58.g5 Be8 59.Re6 b3 60.Rb6 Rg4 61.Rf6+ Kg7 62.Bc4 Ba4 63.Bd5 Rg3 64.Kb2 Re3 
65.Rb6 Re2+ 66.Ka3 Ra2+ 67.Kb4 Rf2 68.Rb7+ Kg6 69.Be4+ Kh5 70.Rf7 Be8 71.Rf8 b2 72.Kc3 Bg6 
73.Rh8+ Kg4 74.Bxg6 Rxf4 75.Kxb2 Kxg5 76.Bd3 Kf6 77.Re8 Kf7 78.Re3 Kf6 79.Kc3 Rh4 80.Bc4 Kf5 
81.Kb4 Kf4 82.Re7 Rh5 83.Kc3 Re5 84.Rf7+ Rf5 85.Re7 Re5 86.Rh7 Re3+ 87.Bd3 Re8 88.Rh4+ Ke3 
89.Rh1 Rc8+ 90.Bc4 Rd8 91.Be6 Rd3+ 92.Kc4 Rd4+ 93.Kc5 Ra4 94.Rh3+ Kf2 95.Bc4 Ra8 96.Kd4 Ra4 
97.Rc3 Ra7 98.Ke4 Rh7 99.Rf3+ Kg2 100.Bd5 Rh4+ 101.Ke5 Kg1 102.Be4 Rh2 103.Rf4 Rd2 104.Kf5 Rf2 
105.Bf3 Rb2 106.Rh4 Rb8 107.Kf4 Kf2 108.Rh2+ Ke1 109.Be4 Rb3 110.Bf3 Rb4+ 111.Kg3 Rd4 112.Re2+ Kf1 
113.Re3 Rd2 114.Ra3 Rd4 115.Re3  1-0

  
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Re: Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
Reply #1 - 06/22/05 at 11:25:49
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Some endgame indeed Shocked
Even after looking at it for an hour now, I cant really see what is going on.

I also started studying endgames (with Flear's books and the big book by Muller), but it is quite tough to do so, especially on your own. I am currently plowing through rook and pawn vs rook, but that already is very difficult. There is a very good column on the endgame at chesscafe, though a bit above my level.

It is a pity that the endgame doesnt really fit in the chesspublishing format as it is probably too static and broad.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Endgame-play. (yes, no opening-theory here..)
06/22/05 at 08:38:27
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Chess-openings are interesting, sure. No doubt about it. But what about the endgame?  Roll Eyes I think the endgame is a part of the game that many (even strong) players neglect out of "ill will", i.e. they do not "have the time" (or for some other reason) to do some really serious work there.

It got me all thinking when I some years ago read the following article on Chessbase on the difficulties of winning with Queen vs. Rook: http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=75
 Subsequently I tried to look further into this endgame with a friend and did indeed find out that it was incredibly difficult to win with correct play from the defending side.

Realizing the depth and all the points that were available to gain by correct endgame-play I`ve continued at slow pace to study the endgame, starting out with just "pure" pawn-play, which also is not clearly easy always.

Just yesterday I were watching the European Championship, giving special attention to the Nijboer-
Volkov game. The game, itself interesting, ended in a R+B vs.R endgame, which the superior side to my great surprise went on to win. I discovered that the ending, although usually a theoretical draw often practically wins. The superior side wins in about 50% of the cases due to the defender not finding the best continuation.

Now this was completely new to me and just shows how interesting endgame-play is and how much can be gained by studying it.

I therefore thought that even though this is an opening-theory site it would be interesting to dedicate at least a small topic in the forum to the endgame  Wink

If anyone are interested in studying/training endgame-play with me on ICC, feel free to message me or post.

For you others I would be interested to hear your opinion on the R+B vs. R ending. Benko called this the "headache ending"  8)

_____________________________________
For interested readers, here is the Nijober-Volkov game:

[Event "European Chmp. 05"]
[White "Nijboer, F."]
[Black "Volkov, S."]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C06"]
[PlyCount "342"]
[EventDate "2005.06.21"]
[SourceDate "2005.06.21"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. c3 c5 6. Bd3 Nc6 7. Ne2 cxd4 8. cxd4
f6 9. exf6 Nxf6 10. Nf3 Bd6 11. O-O O-O 12. Bf4 Bxf4 13. Nxf4 Ne4 14. Ne2 Rxf3
15. gxf3 Ng5 16. Kh1 e5 17. Qb3 Kh8 18. Bb5 exd4 19. Rad1 Qf6 20. f4 Ne6 21.
Qg3 Bd7 22. Rg1 Rf8 23. f5 Nc5 24. f3 Bxf5 25. Bxc6 bxc6 26. Nxd4 Bg6 27. Qg5
Qf7 28. Rge1 h6 29. Qe7 Nd3 30. Qxf7 Rxf7 31. Rxd3 Bxd3 32. Re3 Bb1 33. Nxc6
Rc7 34. Nd4 Rc1+ 35. Kg2 Rd1 36. Re8+ Kh7 37. Ne6 Kg6 38. Rd8 Kf6 39. Nc5 Bxa2
40. b3 Ke5 41. Ra8 Kd4 42. b4 Kc4 43. Rxa7 Rd2+ 44. Kg3 Kxb4 45. Ne6 g6 46. Rg7
Rd1 47. Kf2 Bb1 48. h4 Kc3 49. Rc7+ Kb2 50. Rb7+ Kc2 51. Rc7+ Kd2 52. Rc5 Ba2
53. Nf4 d4 54. Nxg6 Rc1 55. Ra5 Rc2 56. Nf4 d3 57. Kg3 Bc4 58. Rh5 Ke3 59. Nxd3
Bxd3 60. Rxh6 Rc8 61. Re6+ Kd4 62. h5 Bf5 63. Re7 Rh8 64. Kf4 Bb1 65. Rd7+ Kc5
66. Rg7 Rf8+ 67. Kg4 Kd5 68. h6 Ke5 69. Re7+ Kf6 70. Rb7 Bf5+ 71. Kh4 Rd8 72.
Rb6+ Be6 73. Kg3 Rh8 74. Ra6 Rxh6 75. Ra8 Rh3+ 76. Kg2 Rh7 77. Rf8+ Ke5 78. Kg3
Rg7+ 79. Kf2 Bf5 80. Ra8 Bd7 81. Ra7 Kf4 82. Rb7 Rh7 83. Rb4+ Ke5 84. Rb7 Rf7
85. Kg3 Kd6 86. Rb4 Bc6 87. Rf4 Ra7 88. Rf6+ Kd5 89. Kf2 Ra2+ 90. Kg3 Rc2 91.
Rf5+ Kd4 92. Rf6 Bd5 93. Rf8 Rc7 94. Kf2 Re7 95. Rf4+ Kd3 96. Rf5 Rd7 97. Rf4
Rd8 98. Rf5 Kd2 99. Rf4 Bb3 100. Rf6 Bc2 101. Rf7 Bd3 102. Re7 Bc4 103. Re4 Rc8
104. Kg3 Bd3 105. Re7 Rc2 106. Re8 Kd1 107. Re7 Bf1 108. Rd7+ Ke1 109. Re7+ Be2
110. Kg2 Rc8 111. Rg7 Rf8 112. Rg3 Bd1 113. Rh3 Ke2 114. Rh4 Ke3 115. Re4+ Kd3
116. Re7 Bxf3+ 117. Kg3 Be4 118. Kg4 Ke3 119. Kg5 Rf1 120. Rc7 Rf5+ 121. Kg4
Ra5 122. Re7 Ra6 123. Rg7 Ra5 124. Re7 Rb5 125. Rg7 Bf3+ 126. Kg3 Rb1 127. Rg5
Be4 128. Rg4 Bf5 129. Rg5 Ke4 130. Kh4 Rh1+ 131. Kg3 Rh3+ 132. Kf2 Kf4 133. Rg8
Rh7 134. Rf8 Rh2+ 135. Ke1 Ke4 136. Kd1 Kd3 137. Ke1 Ke4 138. Kd1 Rf2 139. Ke1
Rg2 140. Kd1 Kd3 141. Ke1 Be4 142. Rf2 Rg1+ 143. Rf1 Rg8 144. Rf2 Re8 145. Rd2+
Ke3 146. Re2+ Kf4 147. Kf2 Rh8 148. Rd2 Rh1 149. Re2 Rh3 150. Rd2 Bd3 151. Ke1
Re3+ 152. Kd1 Rf3 153. Kc1 Ke3 154. Rh2 Rf1+ 155. Kb2 Kd4 156. Rh4+ Be4 157.
Kb3 Rb1+ 158. Ka4 Rb8 159. Rg4 Kd5 160. Ka3 Ke5 161. Rh4 Kd4 162. Rg4 Rb1 163.
Ka2 Rb5 164. Ka3 Kc3 165. Rg3+ Kc4 166. Rg4 Rb3+ 167. Ka2 Re3 168. Kb2 Re2+
169. Ka3 Kc3 170. Ka4 Bd3 171. Ka5 Re6 *
« Last Edit: 06/27/05 at 11:58:06 by Klick »  

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