Let me begin by saying that my pointing out of Victor's analysis is not a call to replace him. My argument is quite simply when he is wrong he is wrong. Certainly one would not contend that because his rating is approaching 2600+ he could never be wrong. I am simply saying one, he is taking my analysis of 10.c5 and two, he does not or has not seriously investigated the positions that arise from such a move. 

tommy

Igor Nataf ?

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 07/04/07 at 07:50:46:


You're right.  The twelfth move is where the glory is...

After 10...h6 11. Bh4 exd4 12. Nd5 g5 I think the best move is simply 13. Bg3
Anybody got a good answer to that?

Following is the critical position too me and occurs after:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. Be3 Na6 8. O-O Ng4 9. Bg5 Qe8 10. c5 exd4 11. Nd5 Qxe4 12. Ne7+ Kh8 13. cxd6 cxd6 14. Nxc8 Raxc8 15. Nd2 Qd5 16. Bxg4 Qxg5 17. Bxc8 Rxc8 18. Rc1

http://www.france-echecs.com/diagramme/imgboard.phpfen=2r4k/pp3pbp/n2p2p1/6q1/3p...

I think Rybka somehow knows that exchanging rooks in that KID position is not good. Fritz seems to like keeping the Rook on the open file confronting White's rook. So, Rybka's candidate moves are 18..Rd8 or 18..Rf8, whereas Fritz has other ideas like 18..Rc5. Rybka considers the initial position as almost equal. Fritz evaluates it somewhere between .30 - .50 in White's favor.

I did a little analysis on the position using Rybka, and if I work at it, I think White might still come out better. It's pretty tricky though. My guess is that all other things being equal, someone who's barely familiar with the position after 18.Rc1 as White, will be at a disadvantage against a Black player familiar with the ideas in that position. One idea for Black is, be careful about allowing a rook swap.  

Too me, the critical line has been when White plays 13.cxd6, which is given as a subvariation in the previous analysis from Curry. One of the reasons it's critical is that Khalifman has it as White's main line in his Opening for White according to Kramnik series, and I'm not seeing a particularly pleasant position for Black at the end of that analysis. Black is an exchange down with two doubled isolated center pawns as compensation. 

Golubev's book, Understanding the King's Indian, has some notes on 10.c5 on page 67. He mentions that some of his information comes from a Survey on the 10.c5 line in NIC Yearbook 78 (which I don't have handy). Golubev's comments indicate 10..h6 as possibly the best move. This move is also mentioned on the KID Chesspub site by Mikhalevski.

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2007.07.01"]
[Round "?"]
[White "KID 10.c5 vs 2"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "E94"]
[PlyCount "34"]
[EventDate "1999.??.??"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. Be3 Na6 8. O-O
Ng4 9. Bg5 Qe8 10. c5 {This line is given as favorable for White in
Khalifman's Opening for White according to Kramnik series (OFWATK).} exd4 (10...
h6 {Golubev give's this !?, and with a comment 'the best move?'. Indicating
the juries still out in his mind I think. Mikhalevski  also mentions this move
on the Chesspub KID site.} 11. Bh4 exd4 12. Nd5 g5 13. Bxa6 gxh4 14. Nxc7 Qc6
15. cxd6 bxa6 16. Rc1 Qb7 17. Nxa8 Qxa8 {is unclear according to Golubev.}) 11.
Nd5 Qxe4 12. Ne7+ Kh8 13. cxd6 cxd6 {This is Fritz's first choice, I dont have
the OFWATK book, but a friend of mine says Khalifman provides analysis for
this move and credits the analysis to Mikhalevski page 108 of OFWATK.} 14. Nxc8
Raxc8 (14... Rfxc8 {This could be a little more accurate, as White does not
have the additional option of Be7 a few moves later, and arrives at the same
position being considered.}) 15. Nd2 Qd5 16. Bxg4 (16. Be7) 16... Qxg5 17. Bxc8
Rxc8 {This is the critical position if Black is going to play 13..cxd6. All
the other analysis is meaningless unless Black can come up with some
alternatives prior to this, or if Black can show that his position is ok here.
Is White better? White has quite a few moves that all the chess engines give
as leading to a preferrable game for her. On the other hand it's a material
imbalance and perhaps the chess engines aren't evaluating it correctly.
Khalifman says White is better after 18.Rc1. I think he credits the assessment
to Mikhalevski however.} *

edit: Opening for White according to Anand s/b Opening for White according to Kramnik

Has anyone given this line (11. ...Qxe4) to Rybka to chew on? She's stronger than Fritz and she might have different assessments.

Also has anyone looked into 11. ...Nxc5 as played in Navara-McShane 2005? 12. Ne7 doesn't work and so the idea is 12. Nxc7 Qxe4 13. Nxa8 d3, with, well, another tactical mess (e.g. 14. Re1 dxe2 15. Rxe2 Qc6 16. Be7 Re8 17 Nc7 Nxf2 18. Brain melts). Navara, didn't take the critical path.

Well, I don't have any insight re Michalevski's analysis, but just commenting on some of his suggested replacements: there seems to be a general desire to have a strong KI advocate penning this section. 
It's not clear to me that this is a good thing. This isn't (or shouldn't be) a 'Play the KI (go on, you know you want to...)' type of story...if that's what you want, there are plenty of such products on the market. 

If Chesspub guides are going to carry the torch for one side or the other, then that degrades the product.
Many who are arguing that Mikhalevski is carrying the torch for White would be more than happy to see someone carrying the torch for Black instead...so 'it depends who's ox gets gored'.

I prefer analysis to advocacy. I'm violently opposed to fluffy's suggestion that this section should 'inspire' KID players...but perhaps I'm in a minority, in which case I'll vote with my feet.


EDIT: The Dragon section is perhaps a special case; certainly, the very fact that it has its own section indicates that it isn't going to be quite as objective as it could be...