Normal Topic C05: Fargo's Qb6 in the Tarrasch (Read 6137 times)
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Fargo's Qb6 in the Tarrasch
Reply #5 - 01/13/03 at 07:33:13
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Ive just done some research on chessbase's online database and some further thoughts have occurred to me. Firstly Blehm-Pavel certainly does seem like a good illustration of White's chances, however there is the game Kveinys-Matlak, played towards the end of 2002 which seems to improve for Black:

16. Ng3 Nxg3 17. hxg3 Rf6 (!) 18. Qd2 Be8 19. g4 (perhaps this is the mistake) Bg6 20. Bxg6 Rxg6 21. g5 h6 22. gxh6 Rxh6 23. Rad1 Rf8 24. Qe3 Qc7 when Black seems to have good play for his weak pawns and drew shortly.

Obviously there may be room for improvement here but Black's plan of Be8-g6 looks reasonable.

Secondly in the line covered by Jon Rorosgard with Bxe4, I would like to draw people's attention to the game Anka-Reilin in which White won with remarkable ease. Everyone seems to play 18. Nxe4 but Anka played 18. Qd2 (!?). Unfortunately Black was much lower rated and didn't respond well at all, but this move looks good.

I offer the following basic analysis:

as in the game 18. ... e5 (?!) 19. dxe5 Bf5 20. Qc2!? Nxe5 21. Ng3 and White looks to be better

18. ...  Bc8!? opening up the rook looks interesting: 19. Qc2 side-stepping the rook seems best Nxd4 20. Qxe4 and White seems to have a fairly standard position with good chances against the isolated pawns

18. ... Rf5! (found by Crafty) seems to be the solution, and quite a nice visual move. 19. Rad1 e5! and Black seems to have a nice position.

So Bxe4 doesn't seem to be the way forwards, but White needs an improvement against Matlak's line!
  
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Re: Fargo's Qb6 in the Tarrasch
Reply #4 - 01/13/03 at 05:26:25
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Ok, thanks both for your help but I am still somewhat puzzled. The following game has been offered as an ideal illustration of how white should play this line (which I wouldn't dispute, Lalic's play is wonderful)

Lalic-Pert

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 Nf6 4. e5 Nd7 5. Bd3 c5 6. c3 Nc6 7. Ne2 Qb6 8. Nf3 cxd4 9. cxd4 f6 10. exf6 Nxf6 11. 0-0 Bd6 12. b3 0-0 13. Bf4 Bxf4 14. Nxf4 Ne4 15. Ne2 Nd6 

Here 16. Nc3 is Bogdan's improvement with the idea of harrassing the black queen with na4 and establishing a bind. Nick Pert responded with 16. ... Bd7.

Here is my quandary: Eddie's assessment of 15. ... Bd7 16. Ng3 Nxg3 17. hxg3 certainly seems correct. However can't Black play 16. ... Nd6 instead, transposing to the game Lalic-Pert but with the knight on g3 rather than c3? If Black can side road Nc3 surely he has made some progress, or have analysts been over-optimistic about Black's chances from the start, and Black is in trouble even without White having Lalic's novelty (eg Shahade-Watson also looks good for White, though Black's Rf6 left something to be desired) ? To me the position after Ng3 Nd6 looks good for White but as I said before I am new to the tarrasch. Any suggestions?
  
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Re: Fargo's Qb6 in the Tarrasch
Reply #3 - 01/11/03 at 17:08:51
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Jon,

15...Bd7 is certainly playable - indeed my database shows that black actually scores reasonably with it (most games end in draws, although almost invariably black is the higher rated player) - however I believe white should be a bit better after 16.Ng3 Nxg3 17.hxg3. Obviously black is not a lot worse here, however there is no reason why white should not be able to press for the full point: he is well developed and possesses the better bishop and a grip on the dark squares.

For a good example of how to exploit these small advantages, take a look at the game Blehm - Szymanski 1999.

All the best,

Eddie.
  
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Fargo's Qb6 in the Tarrasch
Reply #2 - 01/10/03 at 15:36:25
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My name is Jon Rørosgaard, and I play most correspondandce chess. I recently played the following game in the Qb6 Tarrasch:
4) Rørosgaard,J (2497) - Koentges,M (2369) [C06]
EM/CL/Q07-2, 28.11.2002
[Arild Haugen]




1.d4 e6 2.e4 d5 3.Nd2 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.Bd3 c5 6.c3 Nc6 7.Ne2 cxd4 8.cxd4 Qb6 9.Nf3 f6 10.exf6 Nxf6 11.0-0 Bd6 12.b3 0-0 13.Bf4 Bxf4 14.Nxf4 Ne4 15.Ne2 Bd7 16.Bxe4 dxe4 17.Ng5 Rad8 18.Nxe4 Be8 19.Ng5 Rf6 [ 19...Nxd4 20.Nxd4 Rxd4 21.Qe2 Bf7 22.Qe3 h6 23.Nf3 Rd5 24.Qxb6 axb6 25.Rfd1 Rxd1+ 26.Rxd1 Bh5 27.Rd6 Bxf3 28.gxf3 Ra8 29.Rxe6 Ra6 30.Re7 Rxa2 31.Rxb7 g5 32.Rxb6 Kg7 33.Kg2 Rb2 34.f4 gxf4 35.Kf3 Kh7 36.h4 Kg7 37.b4 Kh7 38.b5 Kg7 39.h5 Kf7 40.Kxf4 Rxf2+ 41.Ke5 Re2+ 42.Kd5 Kg7 43.Rg6+ Kh7 44.b6 1-0 Lukez,F-Savage,A/ICCF 1999/ICCF tele 1/2002 (44)] 

20.Qc2 Bg6 21.Qc4 1/2-1/2
After 19....Rf6 I cannot see any advantage for white.

You can visit our teams chess pages at the following link: http://www.randaberg-sjakklubb.com/randaberg-vikings/2002/

Jon Rørosgaard

  
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Re: Fargo's Qb6 in the Tarrasch
Reply #1 - 01/08/03 at 15:23:54
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I am new to the forum. My name is Edward Dearing and I am an IM (elect) from Scotland, but don't really play much chess these days due to university commitments. 

I used to play the Qb6 line with black, and in fact gave it up (before any of the games you have mentioned were played) because I concluded that the position after 12.b3 is just very difficult for black.

Your observation that 14...Ne4 15.Ne2 Rxf3 16.gxf3 Ng5 is thematic is correct, indeed I recall spending some time analysing it. However I would not attribute too much to the fact that black drew quickly in this game: Summerscale is a 2500+ GM, was 100 points higher rated than his opponent, and has since switched systems to 3...c5 against the Tarrasch. Indeed I believe that there are several improvements for white: in the first place white does not have to play 17.Kh1. Two earlier games (Acs - Schneider 1995 & Seger - Rechel 2000) continued 17.f4 Nf3+ 18.Kg2 Nfxd4 19.Re1/Rc1 and in both cases white was able to stabilise the center and gradually exploit his material advantage.

On a similar note, in the Hunt - Summerscale game white can improve by playing 19.Qc1-e3, again stabilising the center and depriving black of the counterplay he requires to justify his sacrifice.

Finally, if the above fails to convince, white can also venture 15.g3 (instead of 15.Ne2) which seems to lead to a slightly better ending for white (see, for example Ledger - Pert 1999).
  
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C05: Fargo's Qb6 in the Tarrasch
01/06/03 at 05:19:29
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Recently Fargo's Qb6 line in the Tarrasch (1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 Nf6 4.e5 Nd7 5.Bd3 c5 6.c3 Nc6 7.Ne2 Qb6) has received quite a bad press thanks to the work of Lalic and Adams in the following variation:

8.Nf3 cxd4 9.cxd4 f6 10.exf6 Nxf6 11.0-0 Bd6 12.b3! 0-0 13.Bf4!

Whilst undoubtedly the lines that were played against Lalic and Adams led to a white advantage I am puzzled by the lack of attention to Hunt-Summerscale which Neil only mentions in passing, despite it being crucial to the acceptability of the line:

13. ... Bxf4 14.Nxf4 Ne4 15.Ne2 Rxf3!N 16.gxf3 

I have only just taken up the main lines of the Tarrasch, and although I have seen this exchange sacrifice many times, I have not been able to find any constructive commentary or general advice on how White rather than Black should go about playing these positions with the shattered pawns. There is plenty of dicussion on how Black has compensation and his attacking chances but I would like to know what White's standard ideas are, and more specifically, if anyone has a clue as to whether the above line is actually playable for Black with precise moves from White.
« Last Edit: 08/03/11 at 20:56:08 by dom »  
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