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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C57-C59: The Fried Liver Attack (Read 43452 times)
Remis_Aman
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Re: The Fried Liver Attack
Reply #27 - 06/22/05 at 22:04:57
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Dear chessfriends,

I'm planning to do a detailed notes on the Fried Liver Attack {ECO C57}. Do you have any further moves suggestion (or from references like ECO Volume C, 4th edition esp.) to make one of this lines below esp. clear?

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Nf6
4. Ng5 d5
5. exd5 Nxd5?! 
6. Nxf7!? Kxf7
7. Qf3+ Ke6
8. Nc3 Ncb4!
9. Qe4 c6: 
10. a3 Na6 11. d4 Nac7 12. Bf4 (12.O-O Kf7 13.dxe5 Be6 unclear; 12.f4 Kf7 13.fxe5 Be6 14. O-O+ Ke8 unclear e.g. 15.Qf3 Qh4; 12.Qxe5+?! Kf7 13.O-O Be6 14.Ne4 Qd7) 12. Kf7 13. Bxe5 (13.dxe5 Be6 14.O-O-O Qe7 =; 13.O-O-O!?) 13. Be6 14. O-O (14.O-O-O?! Qg5+ 15.f4 Nxc3 16.Qf3 Qg6 17.Qxc3 Nd5 18.Qb3 Nb6 19.Bxe6+ Qxe6 =+) 14. Bd6 unclear;

Any help on this is greatly appreciated. thanks.


  
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Re: The Fried Liver Attack
Reply #26 - 05/23/05 at 13:03:55
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My penny's worth:

The chessgames.com opening explorer database has 5...Na5 as by far the most popular defence, but, interestingly, 5...Nd4 as more successful, closely followed by 5...b5, with 5...Na5 lagging. I looked into a few of the 5...Nd4 examples and in one or two Black got into dreadful trouble. 5...b5 looks simplest for someone like me who is liable to go wrong somewhere.
  
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Re: The Fried Liver Attack
Reply #25 - 04/15/05 at 17:31:58
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Not too keen on this one - knights on the rim and all that. E.g. 11...Na5 12.b4 Nxb4 13.Qxe5+ Kf7 14.cxb4 Bf6 15.Qf4 Qxd4 16.Qxc7+ Kg8 17. O-O! Qxb4 18. a4 and Black is struggling since 18...Bxa1? fails to 19. Qd8+ Qf8 20. Qd5+ Qf7 21. Qxa8 +-

Another downer for Black (if he's looking to play for a win) is 11.Bb3 (instead of 11.Bxb5). As far as I can see, White can force a draw by repetition if he wants after 11...Bb7 (or 11...Rf8 12.O-O Bb7 [what else?] 13.Qg4+ Kf7 14.Qf3+ Ke6 15.Qg4+ ½-½) 12.Qg4+ Kf7 13.Qf3+ Ke6 14.Qg4+ ½-½ Sad. It's worth pointing out that the same drawing idea for White on move 10 doesn't work: 10.Qg4+ (instead of 10.Qe4) 10...Kd6! 11.Qe4 Be6 =+. The bishop being on c8 rather than b7 makes all the difference. Unfortunately for Black, ...Bb7 is the only consistent follow up to ...b5 (and the only way to develop).

Nah, 5...Nxd5 is dead and buried as far as I'm concerned. Shame, it could have been great fun to play... Cry
  
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Re: The Fried Liver Attack
Reply #24 - 04/07/05 at 02:01:56
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Hi Paul!
After 11 Bxb5 , books give only 11...Bb7 , but what if 
11...Na5 , it looks stronger and giving more problems to White ?
Have you any game with this move? Roll Eyes
  
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Re: The Fried Liver Attack
Reply #23 - 04/04/05 at 18:04:47
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If this is correct, it is another reason to prefer 4.d3. But according to my notes, White's play can improved with 12.o-o (in stead of 12.f4) Rf8 13.Bxc6 Bxc6 14.c4 Nb4 15.d5+ Nxd5 16.Rd1 +=.

[1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.d4 Bb4+ 7.c3 Be7 8.Nxf7 Kxf7 9.Qf3+ Ke6 10.Qe4 b5 11.Bxb5 Bb7]
Yes 12.0-0 looks stronger than 12.f4. It seems that 5...Nxd5 deserves the '?!' symbol after all.

3...Bc5 appears to be causing headaches! I think it's worth noting that (according to Emms) Garry Kasparov has stated that the Scotch is White's only serious alternative to the Spanish after 1.e4 e5. A little harsh perhaps, but I can't help believing that the Lopez and the Scotch will bear more fruit. Oh, and the King's Gambit Grin.
  
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Re: The Fried Liver Attack
Reply #22 - 04/04/05 at 09:24:22
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Refuted is a bit too strong methinks. The whole 4 c3 Nf6 5 d4 exd4 complex have a lot of attacking variations where black has to know what he is doing or he will get blown away. Even the modern gives white an initiative if you avoid the draw variation (6 cxd4 Bb4+ 7 Bd2 Bxd2+ 8 Nbxd2 d5 9 exd5 Nxd5 10 Qb3 Na5 11 Qa4+ Nc6 12 Qb3 etc). In that variation either 10 0-0 or something with 12 Bb5 may avoid it, in particular 10 0-0 is quite underestimated.
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: The Fried Liver Attack
Reply #21 - 04/04/05 at 08:03:30
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The bayonet with 12.g4 or 13.g4 has been refuted by the strong Dutch corr. player D.Smit several years ago.
After 3...Bc5 White gets nothing (or less) with 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.cxd4. The only chance for dynamic equality is 6.o-o!? which is underestimated according to Emms.
But if White wants to get an opening advantage, he must try 4.b4, 4.c3 Nf6 5.b4 or 4.c3 Nf6 5.d3. Not that this advantage is guaranteed - but that is not the case in the Closed Ruy Lopez either.
Since the last Karpov-Kortsjnoj match there have been some developments. Because Black had some difficulties equalizing, the 4.c3 Nf6 5.d3 variation had some modest popularity. I remember this, as I am not that young anymore as well ...
  
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Re: The Fried Liver Attack
Reply #20 - 04/04/05 at 03:28:57
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I have played about everything after 3 .. Bc5.
The c3, d3 setup imo promises very little as long as black pays attention. The same goes for the Canal with d3, Nc3.
So you're left with 4 c3 after which Nf6 is the only serious move. 4 .. d6 gives away the center and 4 .. Qe7/Bb6 allows d4, d5, a4 and d6 in that order, which is an excellent gambit where black gets locked up.
After that you have the Möller, the modern or some gambit lines. 
So 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bc4 Bc5 4 c3 Nf6 5 d4 exd4 6 cxd4 Bb4+:
7 Bd2 is the modern, which gives open play without a real advantage, though there is room for deviation from the main lines.
7 Nc3 is the Möller which I dont recommend if you follow the theoretical main line (with Bf6), as it is analysed to death. Though if you deviate with g4 (bayonet) around move 12, you should get a good attacking game which hasnt been analysed that much (and is for sure ignored by your opponent)
The other option is not to recapture with 6 cxd4 and either play 0-0 or b4. These are not 100% sound though.
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: The Fried Liver Attack
Reply #19 - 04/04/05 at 02:08:18
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I have recently faced 4.Ng5 in correspondence chess and like it for white...(although I manage to win as Black!  Wink ). My problem is 3...Bc5 and it seems that 4.d3/4.c3 was proven harmless in those Karpov-Korchnoi matches... (I've lived some years....)

I don't quite trust 4.b4. it looks speculative....

Thanks to anyone who comes out with something useful against 3...Bc5
  
Fernando Semprun
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Re: The Fried Liver Attack
Reply #18 - 04/04/05 at 00:01:39
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Never played Ng5 as it is way too much work for white and Tarrasch called it a duffer's move. You have all the above mentioned variations and to make matters worse it is hard to find OTB a way to refute variations like the Traxler and 4 .. Nxe4
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: The Fried Liver Attack
Reply #17 - 04/03/05 at 20:55:15
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If this is correct, it is another reason to prefer 4.d3. But according to my notes, White's play can improved with 12.o-o (in stead of 12.f4) Rf8 13.Bxc6 Bxc6 14.c4 Nb4 15.d5+ Nxd5 16.Rd1 +=.
  
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Re: The Fried Liver Attack
Reply #16 - 04/03/05 at 07:54:10
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Hi to all!
I just finished several tournaments between my best engines on the theme of Fegatello (= fried liver) attack
My conclusion is that it's a draw , not a forced one , but an equal endgame : let us see:
1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bc4 Nf6 4 Ng5 d5 5 exd5 Nxd5
6 Nxf7 Kxf7 7 Nf3+ Ke6 8 Nc3 Nb4 9 a3 Nxc2+ 10 Kd1 Nxa1 11 Nxd5 c6 12 Nb6+ Kd6 13 Nxa8 Qh4! 14 Qd3+ Qd4 15 Qxd4+ exd4 with an equal endgame
on 7 games , There are 5 draws and 2 Black wins
If White wants to win he must rely on LoLLi attack 6 d4
and if 6...exd4 7 O-O

In the Fried Liver, Black also has 10...Nd4 11.Bxd5+ Kd7! with good chances due to the strong knight on d4 and the idea of getting his king to safety with ...c6 and ...Kc7 (meanwhile White's king is looking shaky). So this is another reason for White to prefer the Lolli Attack, but even here things aren't straight forward. What do you think to this game?:

Kalvach,W v Drtina,Milan
EU-ch corr, 1986

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.d4 Bb4+ 7.c3 Be7 8.Nxf7 Kxf7 9.Qf3+ Ke6 10.Qe4 b5 11.Bxb5 Bb7 12.f4 g6 13.fxe5 Rf8 14.Qg4+ Rf5 15.Bd3 Nxd4 16.Rf1 Ne3 17.Bxe3 Nf3+ 18.gxf3 Qxd3 19.Qd4 Bh4+ 20.Qxh4 Qxe3+ 0-1

Most Black players only play 5...Nxd5 through ignorance and end up getting pasted. But if Black knows his stuff, 5...Nxd5 could catch White off guard.
  
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Re: The Fried Liver Attack
Reply #15 - 04/02/05 at 02:38:12
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Hi to all!
I just finished several tournaments between my best engines on the theme of Fegatello (= fried liver) attack
My conclusion is that it's a draw , not a forced one , but an equal endgame : let us see:
1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bc4 Nf6 4 Ng5 d5 5 exd5 Nxd5
6 Nxf7 Kxf7 7 Nf3+ Ke6 8 Nc3 Nb4 9 a3 Nxc2+ 10 Kd1 Nxa1 11 Nxd5 c6 12 Nb6+ Kd6 13 Nxa8 Qh4! 14 Qd3+ Qd4 15 Qxd4+ exd4 with an equal endgame
on 7 games , There are 5 draws and 2 Black wins
If White wants to win he must rely on LoLLi attack 6 d4
and if 6...exd4 7 O-O
  
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Re: The Fried Liver Attack
Reply #14 - 12/16/04 at 13:26:15
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A line for Black, in which R.J.Fischer was beaten severely should be taken seriously, don't you think? (Fischer-Burger, San Francisco sim 1964).
The Fritz-Ulvestad Variation has been thoroughly tested in corr. games - especially in theme tournaments - with satisfactory results for Black. At the other hand, OTB-players usually prefer 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Na5. I do not want to challenge the excellent reputation of this move, but still feel the centralization of the knight more natural. Moreover the thematic move b7-b5 opens a very strong diagonal for the queen's bishop.
According to all sources I know, 5...b5 (I think this more precise than 5...Nd4 6.c3 b5, but it is not so clear) 6.Bf1 (6.Bxb5 Qxd5 with Bb7 to follow) Nd4 (I do not trust h6 and Nxd5) 7.c3 Nxd5 8.Ne4 (8.cxd4 Qxg5; 8.Nxf7 Kxf7 9.cxd4 exd4 or Nf4; 8.h4?! h6) Ne6! (the piece sac Qh4 is insufficient) 9.Bxb5+ Bd7 10.Bxd7+ (10.Qa4 Ndf4) Qxd7 11.o-o Be7 12.d4 exd4 13.cxd4 o-o 14.Nbc3 and all sources I know, give White some advantage here. I am so arrogant to disagree: Rad8! (the other rook must support the march of the f-pawn)
a) 15.Nxd5 Qxd5 16.Nc3 Qxd4 17.Be3 Qe5 18.Qa4 Bd6
    19.g3 Nc5 and Black's activity compensates for the weak queen's pawns.
b) 15.Be3 Nxc3 16.bxc3 (16.Nxc3 Nxd4 =) f5 17.Nc5
     Bxc5 18.dxc5 Qc6 and Black has a good position; his
     main idea is f5-f4-f3.
This line is a good illustration of the dynamic point of view, that one must strive for active play to compensate a weakness, rather than passively defend it.


Thanks, I will check that out with one of my students, this evening.
  
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Re: The Fried Liver Attack
Reply #13 - 12/16/04 at 13:22:51
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4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 b5 6.Bf1 Nd4 is equal. If you like, I will provide you with some analysis.


I would very much welcome anything you have on this!  I generally teach my students to play 5...b5 -- at lower levels 6. Bf1 is very seldom played -- but after 6. Bf1 h6 (6...Nxc5 7. Bxb5 leads to some advantage for White, as many here will know)  7. Nxf7 Kxf7  8. Be2! Bc5  9. 0-0 I doubt that Black has full compensation, even after the stange and diabolical 9...h5!? as played by Madame Rausis.

My impression is that the Fritz variation, into which 6...Nd4 transposes, is also unsound.  I would welcome any information to the contrary.

  
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