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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Tartakower QGD (Read 22390 times)
slates
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Re: Tartakower QGD
Reply #17 - 05/19/05 at 17:13:44
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Richard,
in that line of the Alatotrsev there a couple of things that Black could do;

firstly, he could avoid it by playing 5...Nf6, which, if memory serves, is GK's preference over 5...c6 and which also seems to be the choice of the authors of the three most recent QGD books if Black wants a win.  I don't have the books to hand, so can't remember for sure, but I'm fairly confident that the general consensus of opinion was that 5...Nf6 gave Black better chances and a more dynamic game.   

However, should Black play 5...c6, then I think he can avoid problems by playing 8...Nd7, when the following line was given as unclear (I think by GK?) 9.h5 Nh6 10.Be2 Nb6 11.Rc1 Nc4 12. Bxc4 dxc4 13.Bxh6 gxh6
  
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Richard Stanz
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Re: Tartakower QGD
Reply #16 - 05/18/05 at 21:49:36
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In the Alortsev line after 1. d4 d5  2. c4 e6  3. Nc3 Be7  4. cxd5 exd5  5. Bf4 c6  6. e3 Bf5  7. g4  Be6  8. h4 c5!? White has 9. Be5!, which is attributed to Dautov.  As that move is good enough to keep an edge for White, the ball appears to be back in Black's court.

Best regards,
Richard Stanz
  
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Geof_Strayer
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Re: Tartakower QGD
Reply #15 - 04/11/05 at 17:44:25
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The Informant analysis of the Bologan-Short game is available in the archives of  the Chess Cafe site.  If you haven't seen it already, try the link

http://www.chesscafe.com/text/informant32.pdf

and scroll down to the game.

I also would like to note that Janjgava in his book (at p.119, section F22, the note to Black's 10th move) does propose 10...Bd6!? as a serious alternative to the move chosen by Short against Bologan.


      - Geof
     
  
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cma6
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Tartakower QGD
Reply #14 - 04/11/05 at 15:51:45
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Thanks to Slates and Inn for the helpful replies. Actually I'm a correspondence player, who uses the Lasker Defense againsts super strong players, but it is too drawish against players equal or below me. 
  I am hoping that the Tartakower will give me chances for a win, which the the Lasker doesn't.
   I have Lalic, Jangjava and Sadler and appreciate all of them.
   These three books all came out in 2000, so hopefully they are not 5 years out of date.                  

                   Thanks for your help.
  
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Re: Tartakower QGD
Reply #13 - 04/11/05 at 12:36:02
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I would add the following, lifted from my post in a related thread here, which is a 'new' move insofar as it isn't mentioned in either Janjgava or Sadler (or Lalic, for that matter, in his QGD book published around the same time);   

Another example - in the Tartakower, one of the main lines after 11.b4 c6 winds up with 14.Ne5!? which, according to Romero (see Gambit book Creative Chess Strategy) causing Black some difficulties - nothing major, but as a relatively recent development it would have been nice to hear GK's thoughts on this.   

I was referring to Kasparov's DVD on the QG, by the way. But your question about up to date Tartakower material seems to me to have already been answered by Inn2 when he says that what's out there already on the prinred page should suffice.  I've not had a game go to 14.Ne5!? yet, and it certainly doesn't refute the Tartakower. Although I'm not able to evaluate the position in the lines given by Romero (I'm too weak by far) where he claims a small edge for White, if I encountered this line often enough for it to be a problem I suppose I'd just play 11...c5 instead, a la GK himself in his games vs Karpov. No harm done. Finally, I would suggest a copy of Lalic's QGD:Bg5 systems might interest you, as mentioned before - if you really don't think Sadler and Janjgava are enough, this third book will surely provide further material that will fill any gaps (one I can think of is in the Alatortsev variation with 3...Be7 where Lalic recommends 8...c5!? as played in Flear-Beliavsky, rather than the lines given in the other two books.  For the sake of variety, it's an option - I think Sadler touched on it, if memory serves, but didn't give much analysis, missing the best continuation for Black if Lalic is to be believed(!) whereas Janjgava didn't mention the line at all.) Anyway, I'm happy to have all three books - I don't really need them all, and the Lalic book doesn't cover the Tartakower as well as Sadler or Janjgava, but variety is the spice of life.
  
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Re: Tartakower QGD
Reply #12 - 04/11/05 at 09:19:27
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Theory hasn't changed much for the tartakower since 2000. Surely Janj and Sadler together will suffice even now. You might also want to consider Kasparov's DVD, which has a nice concise overview. 

The only "new" move is Romanishin's 10. Bg3!? (as in Bologan-Short Sarajevo'04). It is worth checking up on it as Black can easily wind up in an unfavourable hanging pawns situation. With the clock ticking OTB, it can easily feel as if you are in a zugzwang every move (as I've heard).
  
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Re: Tartakower QGD
Reply #11 - 04/11/05 at 08:35:32
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cma6: I do not know of any more recent books for Black. I have the Sadler and Janjgava books and I think that they strike a great balance. One with plenty of explananation and the other with plenty of theory and variations.
  
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Tartakower QGD book recommendations
Reply #10 - 04/11/05 at 08:17:25
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Geof Strayer recommended two fine books from 2000 for Tartakower players.
  Are there any more current books/CDs that could be recommended for QGD Tartakower players, especially from Black point of view?
  
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Re: Tartakower QGD
Reply #9 - 09/01/04 at 13:21:32
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There isn't usually a problem getting a QS fianchetto setup in Queens pawn openings. You might not need it against 2. Nc3 because whites game doesn't have much punch after he has taken away his options for moving his c pawn.
  

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Re: Tartakower QGD
Reply #8 - 09/01/04 at 13:16:46
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Thank you so much for all the great Tartakower info, and now I have another question - can the Tartakower set-up be used against other openings following d4?  For example, 1. d4 2. Nc3?  The basic set up seems relatively easy get against these non QG positions, but is there some serious consequences to setting it up against something other than 1. d4 2. c4?   

Thanks again - I'm so glad I found this site!

Scott Rex
  
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Re: Tartakower QGD
Reply #7 - 08/30/04 at 15:06:20
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There's also a chapter devoted to the Alatortsev variation in Bogdan Lalic's fine book (2000 again, if memory serves - I'm not near my copy) on the QGD. Sadler's is best for explantion, as all regular reader's will know by now, whilst Janjgava's has plenty of theory. Lalic seems to be sort of a middle ground between the two - illustrative games format but not the usual Everyman potboiler - plenty of theory there, too. All three books will give you a solid response to 1d4, as Janjgava deals with the Catalan, too. Pick Sadler though if you can only afford one.
  
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Re: Tartakower QGD
Reply #6 - 08/29/04 at 05:25:57
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Yes, that line is covered in the first chapter of Jangava's book. He calls it the Alatortsev variation.
  

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Thestor
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Tartakower QGD to QGD Exchange Var
Reply #5 - 08/28/04 at 23:14:26
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Black's best move order in QGD, as per Kasparov's play, is 1 d4 d5; 2 c4, e6; 3 Nc3, Be7! so as to avoid 3...Nf6; 4 Bg5 when W can have the QGD Exchange Variation with great flexibility, e.g., with possibilities of Nge2.

   Has anyone (other than Sadler on pp. 142-146 in QGD, 2000) dealt with recent theory in this key line:
1 d4 d5; 2 c4 e6; 3 Nc3, Be7; 4 cxd exd; 5 Bf4
  
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Re: Tartakower QGD
Reply #4 - 08/28/04 at 08:26:32
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I have read Jangava's book and agree that the Tartakower is a very sound defence for black although I play the classical line with Nbd7. The exchange variation is likely to be the biggest problem for black as a QGD player, so one thing to try is the other move order with 3...Be7 rather than 3...Nf6. I don't know whether or not you can still reach the Tartakower defence from this Undecided
  

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Geof Strayer
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Re: Tartakower QGD
Reply #3 - 08/24/04 at 15:01:27
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I would add that the Tartakower is in fact possibly Black's solidest response to d4, and his results with it are close to 50% at the GM level (a fact noted in John Watson's "Chess Strategy In Action").  I also base my Black repertoire against 1.d4 on the Tartakower, and I would note a couple of things which may be useful:

  (1) You will almost certainly end up playing against the Exchange Variation and 5.Bf4 lines more than the Tartakower main lines.  This is not necessarily a bad thing, and is really more of a testament to the soundness of Black's position in the Tartakower lines.  But you definitely need to know how to respond to the Exchange Variation, as in my experience it is the most common White choice.  And you need to know a response to 5.Bf4 because some of the lines are quite sharp. (On the other hand, Black has some very interesting and aggressive possibilities in the 5.Bf4 lines, and White can go down to a quick attack if he is not careful.  I personally am very happy when I see 5.Bf4.)

  (2)  The two best books I have found for Tartakower players are:  (i) Matthew Sadler's "Queen's Gambit Declined" (which provides very good explanations for the ideas behind the moves and a reasonable amount of theory on the Tartakower [2 chapters], Exchange Variation [2 chapters], Bxf6 lines [1 chapter], and 5.Bf4 lines [1 chapter]); and (ii)  Lasha Janjgava's "The Queen's Gambit and Catalan for Black" (which doesn't have a lot of explanation but does provide a complete repertoire for Black against the Exchange Variation, 5.Bf4, 6.Bxf6 lines, the Eingorn Variation (5.Qc2), and the Tartakower main lines);  Janjgava's analysis and presentation of theory seems to me to be of very high quality.
  I can also recommend Colin Crouch's "The Queen's Gambit Declined 5.Bf4!" (published in 1998 and therefore slightly dated in some lines, but still the bible for both black and white players in this variation).

  (3)  Besides Nigel Short's games in the Tartakower which were mentioned previously, there are other good places to look for high-quality Tartakower games such as the Karpov-Kasparov World Championship matches (all of them except the 1990 match; in some of the matches, both Karpov and Kasparov were playing the Tartakower as Black and against it as White!), and games by Geller, Spassky, Vaganian, Yusupov and Beliavsky (all of whom played the Tartakower in high level games with some frequency).

   (4) Probably the main reason that the Tartakower is not more popular is the possibility of facing the Exchange Variation and the fact that in some of the Tartakower main lines White can force farily drawish positions.  As to the former, Janjgava suggests a repertoire based on the Alatortsev Variation (1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Be7!?) in his book, a move order that allows Black to avoid the most troubling lines in the Exchange Variation (Janjgava also covers the main line Exchange Variation very thoroughly), and which I believe was the approach used by several World Champtions, including T. Petrosian and Karpov.  And as to the latter, even the "drawish" positions in some of the main lines have some play in them, and are really only extremely drawish at the GM level.  Moreover, there are almost always riskier but less drawish alternatives for Black if he needs to play for a win.

   I think the Tartakower is actually a very good choice  for a defense to 1.d4, one that is playable at all levels and which is extremely unlikely to every experience serious problems.  Also, there are so many great games in this variation between top class players that you can learn a lot about chess in general as well as theory in particular looking at them.  So I would highly recommend the Tartakower!

  Good luck.  Smiley

     - Geof

  
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