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Normal Topic Caro-Kann Panov 5...Nc6 sidelines (Read 5139 times)
Glenn Snow
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Re: Caro-Kann Panov 5...Nc6 sidelines
Reply #4 - 05/27/06 at 15:28:34
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I liked to know more about the ideas behind 6.Nf3 a6!? for Black.  During my brief use of the Caro-Kann I had planned to play 6.Nf3 Be6 (and 6.Bg5 Be6 but maybe 6...dxc4 is actually the best way to go) but I certainly thought White was at least +/= with best play.  Then again I really only looked at 6.Nf3 Be6 7.c5 g6.
  
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tracke
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Re: Caro-Kann Panov 5...Nc6 sidelines
Reply #3 - 10/31/04 at 08:04:54
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@MNb:
Of course the pseudo-panov 2.c4 has indepent lines (1.e4 c6 2.c4 d5 3.cd cd 4.ed Nf6 5.Bb5+/Qa4+) but is more often used by white to play panov lines. In this way white can avoid some active setups from black:
- 5.Nc3 Nxd5 6.Nf3 e6 7.Bc4! and d4 only after 0-0 avoiding the nimzo lines (which are best against 2.d4 move-order) and luring black into Be7 lines
- 5.Nc3 Nxd5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Bb5! avoiding the theoretically drawn endgame variation and getting some lively piece play 
Even in these both variations white cannot get a serious advantage but maybe a small one and his kind of play. The drawback is 5.Nc3 Nxd5 6.Nf3 Nxc3! 7.bxc g6! what most masters call equal.

@Inn2:
I didn´t know 8...Nd7!?, it looks interesting. I´m not sure if it is less artificial than unpinning with Bd7, maybe white should simply develope with 9.0-0 and h3/Re1/Bf4 !?

I will take a further look soon, first I´ll catch the new Panov database from ChessBase (annouced for november).

tracke
  
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MNb
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Re: Caro-Kann Panov 5...Nc6 sidelines
Reply #2 - 10/30/04 at 18:40:05
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This is good news for the adherents of the Scandinavian Marshall Gambit too. One question:
why is x...g6 good against the Pseudo Panov, but not against the Panov proper? I always thought, White could simply transpose after 1.e4 c6 2.c4 d5 by playing d2-d4 a bit later, eg 3.exd5 cxd5 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.cxd5 Nxd5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.d4.
  

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lnn2
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Re: Caro-Kann Panov 5...Nc6 sidelines
Reply #1 - 10/30/04 at 10:34:41
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WOw.  Shocked I'm very impressed and pleased to learn of these ideas. 

I especially like 6.Nf3 Be6 7.c5 g6. Cheesy

It seems to me that after 8. Bb5 Black best move is 8... Nd7! to control e5. I don't like the lines when black unpins with Bd7 ... too artificial (my opinion). This game is a wonderful model of Black's possibilities:

[Event "AUT-chT2S 0102"]
[Site "Austria"]
[Date "2001.11.10"]
[Round "6"]
[White "Titz,Heimo"]
[Black "Bukal,Vladimir Jr"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "B13"]
1.c4 c6 2.e4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.d4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Nf3 Be6 7.c5 g6 8.Bb5 Nd7 
9.h3 Bg7 10.0-0 0-0 11.Bf4 Qc8 12.Re1 Re8 13.Rc1 Nf8 14.Ne5 f6 15.Nxc6 bxc6 16.Bf1 Qb7 
17.Qa4 a5 18.a3 Bf7 19.b4 e5 20.Be3 axb4 21.Qxb4 Reb8 22.Qxb7 Rxb7 23.Nb1 Ne6 24.dxe5 fxe5 
25.Bd2 e4 26.Bb4 g5 27.Be2 Bg6 28.g3 Rf8 29.Nc3 Bd4 30.Nd1 h5 31.Kg2 Kh7 32.Rf1 Rbf7 
33.Ne3 Nf4+ 34.gxf4 gxf4 35.Nc2 f3+ 36.Bxf3 exf3+ 37.Kh1 Bb2 38.Rcd1 Bxc2 39.Rd2 Rf4 0-1

The plan with Re8/Nf8/f6/Bf7 and then ... e5! is quite thematic (also known from the modern?). 

Of course White's 9. h3 seems abit slow, the direct 9. Ng5 is best, but it looks defensible for black:

[Event "SUI-chT"]
[Site "Switzerland"]
[Date "1994.??.??"]
[Round "7"]
[White "Preissmann,Emmanuel"]
[Black "Hort,Vlastimil"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "B13"]
1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.c4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Nf3 Be6 7.c5 g6 8.Bb5 Nd7 
9.Ng5 Bg7 10.Nxe6 fxe6 11.Bxc6 bxc6 12.f4 Qa5 13.0-0 Qb4 14.Ne2 Rb8 15.Rf3 0-0 16.Rb3 Qa4 
17.Be3 Nf6 18.Rxb8 Qxd1+ 19.Rxd1 Rxb8 20.Bc1 Ne4 21.g3 h6 22.Kg2 g5 23.Rd3 Kf7 24.Kf3 Rb4 
25.b3 Bf6 26.Bd2 Rb8 27.Be1 h5 28.b4 gxf4 29.gxf4 h4 30.Ra3 Rb7 31.Ra6 Rc7 32.a4 Kg6 
33.Kg4 Kf7 34.Kh5 Kg7 35.Bxh4 Bxh4 36.Kxh4 Kf6 37.Kg4 Nf2+ 38.Kf3 Nd3 39.b5 Nb4 40.Ra5 Rb7 
41.Ke3 Kf5 42.h3 Rb8 43.Ng3+ Kf6 44.Kd2 Rh8 45.Kc3 Na2+ 46.Kb3 Nc1+ 47.Kc2 Na2 48.Rxa7 Rxh3 
49.Ne2 Nb4+ 50.Kc1 Rb3 51.b6 Kf5 52.Kd2 Rd3+ 53.Ke1 Ke4 54.Kf2 Rf3+ 55.Kg2 Nc2 56.b7 Ne1+ 
57.Kg1 Rb3 58.Nc3+ Kf3 59.Kh2 Rb2+ 60.Kg1 Nd3 61.Ra6 Rg2+ 62.Kf1 Rc2 0-1

  
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tracke
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Caro-Kann Panov 5...Nc6 sidelines
09/21/04 at 14:45:14
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I´m playing the Caro-Kann now for 15 years and I´ve always thought that the panov attack should be countered by the active and natural 5...Nc6!

The nimzo-like 5...e6 6.Nc6 Bb4 may be the best choice on grandmaster level, but in the transposition to the nimzoindian 7.Bd3 0-0 8.0-0 dxc4 9.Bxc4 b6 (Karpov system) Black usually exchanges his bishop on c3. And as most C-K-players I do not matter exchanging by queens bishop for a knight but I really love my kings bishop (on e7 or d6)! - The calm 5...e6 6.Nf3 Be7 is too passive though not lost as many books suggest. - And there´s also the problem of 5...e6 6.c5 gaining more and more supporters recently. Summa summarum I don´t like 5...e6
Systems with g6 are good against 2.c4, but in the original panov move order white is simple better if he knows when to return the sacrified d-pawn with d5-d6.

Back to 5...Nc6. In my opinion 6.Bg5 dxc4! (Be6 is an alternative) is not problem at all for black neither after 7.d5 Ne5 8.Qd4 h6! nor after 7.Bxc4 Qxd4! when after a short firework it is white who is struggling for equality. 
The problem is 6.Nf3! when 6...e6 and 6...g6 are good for white. After 6...Bg4 7.cxd5 Nxd5 8.Qb3 Bxf3 9.gxf3 black has the choice between 9...Nb6 with a slight push for white and 9...e6 which is the theoretical recommendation and should lead to a drawish endgame.

Please excuse me for repeating these wellknown facts (anyone disagrees?!), now to the point.
As I don´t like the mentioned endgame as black I´ve started to play some very rare sidelines. These are 
(a) 6.Nf3 Be6 7.c5 g6
(b) 6.Nf3 Be6 7.c5 Bg4
(c) 6.Nf3 a6 
There are not much games and nothing like theory. Some tryouts from Miles and Speelman suggest that white may gain a slide advantage though the black position should be perfectly playable. Much more it´s very easy for white to get an inferior position by playing natural moves. The black side is much easier to play but somehow white might be better if he knows how to handle the position!? In internet blitz games I have a very good score by varying these variations. And computers are soon out of book!
7.c5 seems to be white´s best choice against 6...Be6 while it seems to be a mistake against 6...a6 regarding 7...Bg4 . Then 6...a6 7.Bg5 might be a better try as 7.cxd5 Nxd5 8.Bc4 e6 is likely to transpose to a QGA with no problems for black. 

Does anyone else have experience with these variations or knows theory about it ?
Is there already a refutation ?? Of course I would not like to give up my pet lines but better now than after the next tournament game.

tracke Smiley
  
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