If you mean the game against the GM, I wouldn't want to embarrass him. Also, I didn't post on here to blow my own trumpet - I just wanted to point out the Veresov is worth playing.

Antillian wrote on 11/07/07 at 14:37:35:


As Smokey Robinson famously sang, 

I second that emotion!

I hope those of you considering playing the Veresov haven't been put off by this thread. It's one thing sitting at home "knowing" (e.g.) that 3...Nbd7 or 3...c5 give Black a great game, it's quite another sitting at the board as Black six months later trying to remember the analysis or having to work it out when White comes up with a new move.

In the last OTB tournament I played in (some years ago) I had the following line twice (as White): 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bg5 Nbd7 4.f3 c6 5.e4 dxe4 6.fxe4 e5. Black's idea is 7.dxe5 Qa5, and the 5th rank pin promises Black a great game. Check it out in any book - nobody recommends it for White. However, at home I had found a new move in this line - White still isn't better, but the position is tactically very complex and neither of my opponents (both around a respectable 2000) found the best moves, and I came out of both openings with the advantage and won both games. 

I don't recommend the Veresov against IMs or GMs (although once I did beat a GM with it), or at correspondence chess - but for the majority of you who play at less exalted levels it's a sound and interesting way to avoid the bucket loads of theory you get with more mainstream openings.

Best regards to you all,

David Macdonald.

I'm pretty sure, but also to lazy to look back, I've spoken poorly of the Veresov in the past.  I think I wondered if White was really threatening Bxf6 after 3.Bg5.  I'm still not a big advocate of the Veresov but I don't see how it can the opening can actually be bad.  I certainly think it's not going to give a theoretical edge, but most openings don't anyway unless one is prepared to spend loads of time studying (although this could and probably will be debated).  My main argument is that if the Veresov is bad then shouldn't the Chigorin have already been easily refuted?  Having said that, 3...c5 does seem satisfactory versus the Veresov.  Go figure.

I would love to give the Veresov a try, but it is 4.Nf3 e6 that puts me off. If I could transpose to a French then all would be fine, but after the abovementioned gambit lines with 4.Nf3 e6 5.e4 h6 6.Bh4 g5! I simply cannot find a good way of playing for White.

I'd like to hear any improvements on these, so far I cannot see that White has much for the pawn. Playing with e3 seems wrong to me, as Whites play is geared up for an e4 break. If White has nothing in these gambit lines and has to play e3 then the whole line is poor for White and Qd3 lines will be better in this case.

Other lines with ...c6 dont worry me too much, e3 is ok (best) for White here as Black is not pressuring the d4 pawn with ...c5.

Quote:


IM Wisnewski, are you reading this ?

Last year I was working with some german IM's on the Qd3 line of the Veresov. Our (or rather their) conclusion was that the combination of an early h6 and c6, as mentioned by Topnotch, gives black easy play and easily the better chances if white doesnt know what to do.

The critical line runs 1. d4 d5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bg5 Nbd7 4. Qd3 h6! (4....c5 scored very well in correspondence chess, but as both Vaganian and Hector showed in recent games, 5.0-0-0 is quite ok for white) 5. Bh4 (Bd2 doesnt make sense because of c5 or even e5) 5....c6! 6.Nf3 Qa5! 7. Nd2 (with the idea of e4; 7.0-0-0 leads to a "strategically clearly superior position for black", as the IM's said, after  7....e6 with the idea of Bb4) 7....e5 and black is probably a little better in a complicated position.

White can, however, vary his moveorder a little bit and play 4. Nf3 Now after 4....h6 5.Bh4 c6 he can simply play e3 and Black has chosen a very passive setup against the Veresov. On the other hand, after 4....c6 5.Qd3 (there are subtleties, why e3 is not that good here. If someone is interested, I can post them, but it will be a long post) 5....h6 and now 6. Bd2! is the move to play, when white may not be better objectively, but he has a sound position with e4 to come. Of course in case of Nf3 white has to play the gambit lines after 4....e6 5.e4 h6 6.Bh4g5, but as far as I know, they are not refuted...

I am interested in working out a Veresov-repertoire for white, knowing that it wont lead to an advantage for the first player. But there are ways to make black feel uncomfortable, and as a Chigorin player, I have to play these positions anyway against white queens pawns openings...
Would be great if someone would join with his thoughts and analysis...

Yours, Pio   

Toppy, 

That's a nice tactic that I hadn't seen before!  I've fallen for it once or twice as Black in similar situations in blitz, but it's a nice nuance.

I do like the ...c6 lines.  The question I tried to raise was whether the Q really belongs on d3 in the French.  The Conquest game was an interesting emendment to my knowledge of the French.