Normal Topic Balogh Defence:  1.e4 d6 2.d4 f5!? (Read 10076 times)
Glenn Snow
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1720
Location: Franklin
Joined: 09/27/03
Gender: Male
Re: Balogh Defence:  1.e4 d6 2.d4 f5!?
Reply #6 - 01/14/05 at 11:57:57
Post Tools
Well that does help clear up the confuse (mine) concerning the name of the opening.  (Although I still like the name Balogh Defence better!  Smiley )

MNb mentions, after 1.e4 d6 2.d4 f5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bd3 fxe4 5.Nxe4 g6 6.Nxf6+ gxf6, the natural move 7.Nf3.  This does seem stronger than the aggressive 7.h4 but I'm still not sure if this gives White any advantage.  In the BCG.cbv that Hayward offers for download you'll find 4 games with 7.Nf3.  One is the casual email game Hayward-Owens (They played a few games by email to test the openings soundness.) which ended in a draw.  The other 3 were with J.Lens playing Black in I believe BCG thematic tournaments.  He won all 3 games.  This doesn't prove that Black is better of course, or even that he's OK here, but for what it's worth Black's position seems playable to me.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TalJechin
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no secret ingredient.

Posts: 2892
Location: Malmö
Joined: 08/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Balogh Defence:  1.e4 d6 2.d4 f5!?
Reply #5 - 01/14/05 at 06:58:03
Post Tools
I think the word 'gambit' doesn't necessarily mean that you give up material. The Queen's Gambit is an obvious example, as Qa4+ defends c4. 

In especially older e4 e5 openings, gambit is traditionally used in the old wrestling sense, meaning a trick to trip up your opponent, and in that sense 2...f5 is certainly a gambit!  Wink

In the KG, almost all variations are called gambits, e.g the well known Kieseritzky Gambit which doesn't offer black any material...

Btw, when googleing it seems that gambit has been adopted into mainstream english in the sense of 'cunning plan' or 'idea' or something roughly similar...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10778
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Balogh Defence:  1.e4 d6 2.d4 f5!?
Reply #4 - 01/14/05 at 05:48:44
Post Tools
Alumbrado confirms my suspicion and the fact that Black not alway can force e7-e5 does not feel good to me.
And what about the unambitious 1.e4 d6 2.d4 f5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bd3 fxe4 5.Nxe4 g6 6.Nxf6+ gxf6 7.Nf3 ?
Of course this is not a straightforward refutation. But compared the French Exchange Variation and the Petrov Black seems worse off. If it is true, that White can play for an edge without any risk here, this is enough reason for me to turn my back to the Balogh Defense.

The only book I know which pays serious attention to the Balogh, is Rolf Schwarz' book on the Dutch: indeed he reaches this via the Staunton Gambit.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
alumbrado
God Member
*****
Offline


Esse quam videri bonus
malebo

Posts: 1418
Location: London
Joined: 02/17/03
Gender: Male
Re: Balogh Defence:  1.e4 d6 2.d4 f5!?
Reply #3 - 01/14/05 at 04:50:59
Post Tools
Presumably the moniker "Counter Gambit" came about because it can also arise from the Staunton Gambit 1.d4 f5 2.e4 d6!?

But Staunton Gambit Declined would seem to be more accurate, given that Black is not directly offering material.

I have to say that it does look very dodgy: after all, in the Dutch, White often spends a lot of time preparing e2-e4, so to have this move in 'for free' looks too good to be true.  The light squares around the black centre and kingside look too weak.  But those are just general comments - I have not looked at any concrete lines, so I'll shut up!  Lips Sealed
  

If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Glenn Snow
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1720
Location: Franklin
Joined: 09/27/03
Gender: Male
Re: Balogh Defence:  1.e4 d6 2.d4 f5!?
Reply #2 - 01/13/05 at 21:45:10
Post Tools
Yes, you're right.  It's not a gambit.  Good point!

I think Balogh might have called it a gambit because of the variation 1.e4 d6 2.d4 f5 3.exf5 Bxf5 4.c4 e5! 5.dxe5 Nc6 6.exd6 Bxd6 with good play for the pawn, but I'm just guessing here.

No, Black can't always enforce ...e5 and Hayward says that he's had a hard time making the variations with an isolated e-pawn work.  I suppose the "counter-gambit" label might be because some seem to believe that any gambit by Black is a counter-gambit.  But I personally don't like that usage.

One nice variation where Black seems to achieve ...e5 nicely and is very common is 1.e4 d6 2.d4 f5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bd3 fxe4 5.Nxe4 Nxe4 5.Bxe4 d5 6.Bd3 g6 7.h4 Bg7 (I can't remember, but 7...Qd6 first might be correct.) 8.h5 Qd6 9.hxg6 hxg6 10.Rxh8 Bxh8 and Black gets a good game after the ...e5 break (possibly with ...Nc6 first and maybe 0-0-0).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10778
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Balogh Defence:  1.e4 d6 2.d4 f5!?
Reply #1 - 01/13/05 at 21:35:14
Post Tools
I also object the name Balogh Counter Gambit, but for a slightly different reason. The fact is, that 1.e4 d6 2.d4 f5 is not a gambit at all, as Black does not sac anything. I wrote Hayward about it and he argued that Balogh himself called his opening a Counter Gambit.

As I am mainly playing email-chess, I am even more suspicious. At the other hand it would be great, if this adventurous opening would be correct.

Hayward states, that Black's best chance is a setup with a king's fianchetto. As a Iljin-Zjenevsky devotee my main concern is: can Black force e7-e5? If yes, than the opening is OK for me. Note, that I do not mind to play with an isolated pawn on e5.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Glenn Snow
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1720
Location: Franklin
Joined: 09/27/03
Gender: Male
Balogh Defence:  1.e4 d6 2.d4 f5!?
01/13/05 at 18:57:37
Post Tools
I don't think we've looked at this on the forum before and I'm curious to see if anyone else has dabbled with it.  And if anyone knows of a refutation (or refutations possibly) of 2...f5.
 
When I saw this defence for the first time I was extremely skeptical concerning its viability.  It was only after being beaten game after game with it (perhaps by Keith Hayward!) on ICC by someone with a comparable blitz rating that I started to take it seriously.  I decided to read Hayward's 5 part article posted at the Chessville.com site (http://www.chessville.com/downloads/misc_downloads.htm#BCG) and to play some speed chess with it.  As I mentioned on another thread, the Balogh Defence has turned out to be my most successful opening with the Black pieces in blitz chess!

As Keith notes in his articles, the Balogh does involve high risk.  What else would you expect with a move like 2...f5?  However, he also says that he thinks the opening is sound in the hands of a creative player.  I still have strong doubts about that, but it certainly carries more sting than one would think.  I'll wait to see if this post draws any interest before posting any analysis.  Don't be afraid to try it.  At the very least you get a good surprise defence for your next blitz encounter against 1.e4.  (Or sometimes 1.d4 d6 2.e4 f5.  Incidentally, you'll find the Balogh in ECO under 1.d4 f5 2.e4 d6.  A rather unlikely possibility in my opinion.  One other quick note.  Hayward refers to this opening as the Balogh Counter Gambit.  I don't really like this name.  Doesn't White have to offer a gambit first for a defence to be a counter-gambit?)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo