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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Tarrasch books??? (Read 16033 times)
Frankly
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Re: Tarrasch books???
Reply #30 - 06/17/05 at 11:05:56
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Quote:
Tim Harding has devoted two articles on cxd4 at chesscafe.com.
Yes, generally this considered very dubious.


Thanks MNb - superlatively useful references. (For those interested - it's Tim Harding The Kibitzer on Chesscafe.com for June 1999 - "Have a Hack with the Hennig-Schara", and July 1999 - "Hennig-Schara revisited".) It's gonna take me a while to work through, and then maybe I'll face cxd4 only once again in future  Cheesy

Harding is actually rather enthusiastic about it. Your assessment is clearly not an assessment yielded by Harding's researches !

I opted for Qxd4 instead of Qa4+ (mainly because I missed the obvious superiority of the latter), and then dithered for a long time on move 7, because I was worried about the apparent problems with castling that Black might cause me if I captured and exchanged queens, and was also worried about moving my queen around so much as White, who is supposed to be a tempo ahead. I therefore opted for the weird 7 e4, which I see (unsuprisingly) nobody else does (there is an e3, which is much better). I got into an inferior endgame as white and won only because of a generous mistake from my opponent at the end allowing a mating combination. What is comforting from the Harding discussions is that the perplexities I suffered in considering how best to respond as White are at least in good company.

Thanks again for the spot-on reference!

PS - How to remove the little [i] signs when doing italics?
  
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MNb
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Re: Tarrasch books???
Reply #29 - 06/16/05 at 21:19:10
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Tim Harding has devoted two articles on cxd4 at chesscafe.com.
Yes, generally this considered very dubious.
  

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Frankly
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Re: Tarrasch books???
Reply #28 - 06/16/05 at 18:27:21
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Hello all. I should greatly appreciate some discussion of the best options for White against the Tarrasch when Black plays 4...cxd4 instead of exd5 (the Schara-Hennig gambit, which I now notice MNb has mentioned in this thread as a 'solution, though not ideal'). Qa4+ is better than Qxd4, as the likely interposition of the Bishop will allow the Queen to capture on d5 after doing so on d4. In 'opening explorer' on chessgames.com, there are relatively few games in the database that follow this line (about 100 to about 600 exd5). Is it because 4...cxd4 is that unsound?

So - pointers appreciated (and sites with similar kinds of opening databases even more appreciated!) MNb?
  
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Beetlejuice
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Re: Tarrasch books???
Reply #27 - 02/19/05 at 06:15:24
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Teun van der Worm, one of the authors of the book mentioned above, has a website intending to "cover some new developments in the Noteboom that where discovered after the publication of the book".

The page is at http://home.pi.net/~vorm/noteboom.htm#Gelfand-Vaisser, however it has appatently not been updated since 18 June 1998, but at least it has two commented games to supplement the book.
  
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MNb
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Re: Tarrasch books???
Reply #26 - 02/15/05 at 21:53:34
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There is still a solution, though maybe not an ideal one.
1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.cxd5 cxd4!? the Von Hennig-Schara Gambit.
1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c6 the Noteboom
Black avoids the Marshall Gambit.

Another, more simple option is 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c6 4.e4 Bb4!? but I do not know what the current state of this variation is.

I own the Van der Werf/Van der Vorm book and I rather liked it. It is a good overview with good explanation. But in about 120 pages you cannot expect a complete treatment of course.

Concerning my taste ... must I repeat it?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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chessy
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Re: Tarrasch books???
Reply #25 - 02/15/05 at 07:25:46
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It is getting interesting for me here, as my main weapon against d4/c4 is the Noteboom (incl. Meraner) or the Tarrasch.

There is a book called “play the Noteboom”, by Van der Werf and Van der Vorm, published in 1996.

It is good but still I would not recommend baying it. Especially the Marshall (4.e4) is outdated.

But I highly recommend to log in the d4 d5 section by Sherbakov. There you will find an e-book for the Noteboom and one for the Marshall. In the e-book called “Queen’s gambit declined” you also will find some tarrasch analysis, including improvements on the Karpov- Kasparov game. I personally like 14…Bb4 as also recommended by Aargad. 

I am convinced the question which defence is better is ONLY a matter of taste. If you play the Tarrasch you must by IQP adherent. If you play d5/e6/c6 you must know opening theory by heart, especially in the Marshall.
  
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Jonorigolo
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Re: Tarrasch books???
Reply #24 - 02/15/05 at 02:28:54
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@Mnb: Yes I already thought of the Noteboom...
Do you know any books about it?

Jono
  
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MNb
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Re: Tarrasch books???
Reply #23 - 02/14/05 at 19:27:28
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WCh-match 1984:
Karpov-Kasparov, 7th game and 9th game, were the last games Kasparov played with the Tarrasch. Kasparov would have been very satisfied with draws.
I am afraid Aagaard and Keilhack are guilty of wishful thinking.
The Noteboom, which makes it possible to avoid the Slav Exchange, is a good option to create winning chances as Black.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Tarrasch books???
Reply #22 - 02/14/05 at 06:10:30
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Both Aargaad and Keilhack reckon in thier books, that the reason why Kasparov (or other top.GM`s) stopped playing the tarrasch is, there are to many drawing options for white.

Oviously both authers belive in the soundness of the system.

As an hobbyplayer who read in my freetime two tarrasch-books, dearly hope they are right!!!! Tongue
  
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Jonorigolo
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Re: Tarrasch books???
Reply #21 - 02/14/05 at 03:14:39
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I Know the Gelfand-Grischuk game.

In a recent Nic Yearbook there was a survey on the 9...c4 variation.
There seems to be some possible improvement but they lead to positions I wouldn't want to play.

I am analysing the grunfeld and it fits me well but i don't want to have to face my beloved Tromp.

So i keep looking for a defence that doesn't begin with 1...Nf6.

I guess i'll have to try the Semi-Slav...
  
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MNb
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Re: Tarrasch books???
Reply #20 - 02/12/05 at 22:45:49
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"I don't think highly of IZ"
Well, Ranjk, this seems to be the only point we disagree on. I must confess, that only recently (about two years ago) I got so much confidence, that I dared to play the IZ in an email game. So there is still hope for you!
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Tarrasch books???
Reply #19 - 02/12/05 at 17:01:46
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Hi Jonorigolo,

The last time that Grischuk played the Tarrasch was in April of 2004, when he was beated by Gelfand in the 9... c4 mainline. This game and the game against Lautier imposed big problems for the Tarrasch player. The lines featured in these games are pretty forced and  simply lead to awful endings for black, with 0% chances of winning for him! The Tarrasch always had a bad theoretical reputation and not without reason, there many lines these, Lautier-Grischuk and Gelfand-Grischuk are just two samples. I don't think higly of IZ (sorry MNb Sad), but I find it infinitly better than the Tarrasch; after all even if white is better in the IZ mainlines, at least they are very complex and full of tactics. No forced endings here where black can only lose!

If want to play much weaker players than you, than I think that the Tarrasch can work. But I think too the IZ is better for this: it has much less theory and one of that the best way to beat weaker opposition is to outplay then tactically. They'll probably know nothing about the IZ and you can easily reach a crushing position!

Cheers,
ranjk
  
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MNb
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Re: Tarrasch books???
Reply #18 - 02/11/05 at 16:33:42
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"I don't think Grischuk would play an inferior system."
Why then did he face these problems against Lautier?
Why would Kasparov have given up the Tarrasch after 1984?
BTW, a few strong players have dabbled in the IZ - Short to name the strongest.
I do not really by such arguments. It is not Short, Kasparov or Grisjuk who plays your game; you have to do it yourself. If you trust the Tarrasch more than the IZ - then play it. For me, I can only say that I have reached excellent results with the IZ. But who am I after all?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Tarrasch books???
Reply #17 - 02/11/05 at 09:58:05
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Jonorigolo,
Getting back to the thread "Books on the Tarrasch" there are a couple of books on the Henning-Schara Gambit if one is so inclined.  If you are looking for a dynamic opening to play at club level vs.d4 (especially against weaker opps) this is not a bad choice.  Of course you still have the problem of g3 which kind of gives me fits. Embarrassed
Regards,

  
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Jonorigolo
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Re: Tarrasch books???
Reply #16 - 02/11/05 at 02:42:43
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I don't think Grischuk would play an inferior system.

He plays the Tarrasch but i can't remember if he ever played the Classical Dutch (or IZ) :p

I don't really trust the Stonewall but i strangely have a very good score with it: only one loss in around 10 games (+7 -1 =2) but my wins were almost all due to the opponent overpressing.

I have tried TD in Net-Blitz: I have had decent results despite not knowing much theory, and I also won lots of Black games when people transposed to the French Smiley

BTW, you can play me on echecs21.com. My Handle is of course Jonorigolo.

Jono
  
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