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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Scotch Game? Is it any good? (Read 41221 times)
Teyko
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Re: Scotch Game? Is it any good?
Reply #16 - 03/17/05 at 15:44:56
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Gambits Dammit just rhymed. I am actually interested in finding a solid white option without being down a pawn. I mean on the Black side of things, I play the dragon and the king's indian. I am just looking for something just as dynamic.
  
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Markovich
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Re: Scotch Game? Is it any good?
Reply #15 - 03/17/05 at 12:12:18
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Just curious - what is it that makes a BDG-fan shy away from the KG?? Too much comp or what? Wink  ???


Yeah actually, KG is decent for White, at least the Bishop's Gambit.  I would look at that if my motto were "Gambits Dammit!"  I regret I can't similarly recommend the Danish, which I believe to be unsound.
  

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TalJechin
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Re: Scotch Game? Is it any good?
Reply #14 - 03/17/05 at 10:18:24
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Hi, as a new 1.e4 player, I was wondering what some of the 1.e4 e5 members thought of the scotch game. 
Is it inferior to the spanish or a viable opening through which white can obtain a strong intiative and solid advantage.

Just curious.

Teyko (The Blackmar Diemar Gambit guy)



Just curious - what is it that makes a BDG-fan shy away from the KG?? Too much comp or what? Wink  ???
  
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Willempie
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Re: Scotch Game? Is it any good?
Reply #13 - 03/17/05 at 09:34:30
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One other aspect of the scotch is that you can gambit the pawn (which you seem to enjoy Wink).
1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 d4 exd4 4 Bc4
-4 .. Bc5 allows for wild play with c3, 0-0 or even Ng5
-4 .. Nf6 allows the Max Lange after 0-0 (I dont trust the Nxe4 variation for white so I dont play it in a normal game) or the modern variation with 5 e5, which is quite tricky to meet for black. I played this a couple of times as you can reach it from the Two knights defense as well.
Most books dealing with these variations are usually based on the Giuoco/TKD, so you wont find them in a book on the scotch.

Another thing is that you can answer the Petrov with 3 Nc3 though I dont know much about variations there.
  

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Johnnyballgame
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Re: Scotch Game? Is it any good?
Reply #12 - 03/17/05 at 00:06:04
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In the scotch game black often ends up with more active pieces while white has a superior structure. You should consider this as the white side might not be comfortable for a BDG player.
  
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Re: Scotch Game? Is it any good?
Reply #11 - 03/04/05 at 08:53:57
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Hello All,
I've had fun playing the line 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 ed 4.Nd4 Bc5 5.Be3 Qf6 6.Nb5!? (Blumenfeld Attack) after seeing an article in NIC 2003/7.  I'm not sure I would want to play it against strong opposition, but at the local club level...interesting games. Any thoughts?
Regards
  
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The King
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Re: Scotch Game? Is it any good?
Reply #10 - 03/04/05 at 04:23:56
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Sergey Rublevsky is probably the strongest current player who employs it regularly.  If you do a database search for his games with the Scotch and play through them you should be able to decide if it suits you.
  
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MNb
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Re: Scotch Game? Is it any good?
Reply #9 - 03/03/05 at 20:26:56
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In Danish Dynamite Müller and Vogt break a lance for 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.Nf3 Bb4+ 5.Bd2. This might cause Black some problems.
  

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TalJechin
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Re: Scotch Game? Is it any good?
Reply #8 - 03/03/05 at 13:12:37
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If I wasn't happy with the KG I guess I'd be looking into the Scotch (and probably a 4knights / Belgrade vs the Petroff) as it seems the only ambitious alternative to the Ruy's mountain of theory. Last year there were about 25 games between players +2500, which might indicate that the Scotch is something used when there is a definite need to win. Smiley

Though when looking through some games after 1. e4 e5  2. Nf3 Nc6  3. d4 exd4  4. Nxd4 Nf6  5. Nxc6 bxc6  6. e5 Qe7 7.Qe2 Nd5 it's striking how very exactly both sides most play! Hardly positions you can play 'with your hands'! 

Kasparov played it quite successfully as late as 2000/2001 beating Timman, Adams and Bacrot 3/3. 

In last year's Linares there was an exciting game, Radjabov-Kasparov where black could have safely repeated moves and drawn around move 25, but chose to play out the ending R+N vs R+B, with an entertaining draw as result!

I wonder if Kasparov has quit it for good or if he has the Scotch still in his sleeve. maybe the last few rounds in Linares will answer that? Cheesy
  
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Re: Scotch Game? Is it any good?
Reply #7 - 03/03/05 at 12:38:23
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I would be a little cautious before playing 2. d4 exd4  3. Nf3 Bb4+  4. c3 or any other like that led to the Goering.  That gambit fails to offer full compensation, and I'm always happy when it's played against me.


Agreed.  I don't think the Scotch can serve as a complete repertoire for White against 1 ... e5.  I would be inclined to stick with the standard mover order and find something else with which to confront the Petroff.
  

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Markovich
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Re: Scotch Game? Is it any good?
Reply #6 - 03/03/05 at 08:54:09
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I've played 1...e5 most of my life and I find that 1. e4 e5  2. Nf3 Nc6  3. d4 exd4  4. Nxd4 Nf6  5. Nxc6 bxc6  6. e5 is not so easy to meet.  I lost a correspondence game on the Black side of this without being entirely sure where I made my mistake.  White sacrifices time in exchange for space, and systems that do that typically are very dynamic.   

I have looked a little at 4...Bc5 and my impression is that Black's game is not so simple there, either.  4...Qh5 is untrustworthy.

I think the Scotch is White's next best winning try after the Ruy, and I would strongly recommend it to a player starting out with 1. e4.

I would be a little cautious before playing 2. d4 exd4  3. Nf3 Bb4+  4. c3 or any other like that led to the Goering.  That gambit fails to offer full compensation, and I'm always happy when it's played against me.
  

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Re: Scotch Game? Is it any good?
Reply #5 - 03/03/05 at 04:57:03
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You could try to avoid the Petroff with the move order 1.e4 e5 2.d4!? exd4 3.Nf3 when 3...Nf6 transposes to a line that is though to be inferior (Black would normally meet 3.d4 in the Petroff with 3...Nxe4! rather than 3...exd4?!).

The problem is that Black can lob in 3...Bb4†!? when 4.c3 dxc3 5.Nxc3 tranposes to a Goring Gambit after an eventual ...Nc6 (which it is hard for Black to avoid).  On the plus side, it has forced black to accept the gambit, avoiding the Capablance Defence with [1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.c3] 4...d5.  On the minus side, it has robbed White of the opportunity to play it as a double pawn sac [1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.c3 dxc3 5.Bc4!?].

As for the Scotch itself, I have my doubts.  The main lines with 4...Nf6 seem pretty easy for Black to me.  And 4...Bc5 ain't bad either.

I don't have either the book or a set in front of me at the moment but there is a line in Sam Collins recent repertoire book which left me puzzled: it is in the ...Bc5/...Qf6 line and Black has a bishop on d4 and White plays Ne2 to get rid of it, but no mention is made of the possibility of ...Bxb2, simply snatching a pawn.  I had a look at the position and was very sceptical as to whether White had sufficient compensation.
  

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The King
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Re: Scotch Game? Is it any good?
Reply #4 - 03/03/05 at 04:20:38
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If you are interested in the Scotch, the English Grandmaster Peter Wells wrote a very good book on it a few years ago.  I bought the book but never played the opening for some reason!
  
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Re: Scotch Game? Is it any good?
Reply #3 - 03/02/05 at 21:37:59
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Before Kasparov both Dutch GM's Timman and Van der Wiel have played it with success. The Scotch is still a cornerstone of the latter's repertoire.
It was an important reason for me to give up 1...e5. But after reading Gutman's 4...Dh4 in der Schottischen Partie I consider to take up the challenge again - but I am doubting for more than a year already.
The Scotch is the best Open Game for White after the Ruy Lopez. Only problem: the Petrov. The Scotch is in any case much more sensible than the BDG ....
« Last Edit: 03/03/05 at 20:29:18 by MNb »  

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Re: Scotch Game? Is it any good?
Reply #2 - 03/02/05 at 21:16:18
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When I used to answer e5 I found the scotch the most annoying. With the Spanish or Giuco I knew what to do and with the others it is just playing field, but not against the scotch. Imo it is the best for white as most black players including me just know the first few moves (I played 4 Bc5 and never remembered anything beyond that)
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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