Michael Ayton wrote on 07/05/05 at 08:54:55:

It seems black has to play 4...Nb8.

Panayotis Frendzas (pfren) recently posted a game at chess.com which overturns the ancient theoretical assessment. In Hort (1981) Alekhine's Defence, Keene gave 10.Nd5 "unclear/=+" (see page 243), while in Kapitaniak (1982) Nimzovich Defence it was 12...Bxe4 "=+" (see page 55). Meanwhile pfren says black is lost.
https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/mikenas-defensegood-or-bad?page=...
Although the engine slightly prefers 15...Kb8 over 15...Ka8, black doesn't have much hope.

[Event "World op 32nd 9rd swiss"]
[Site "Philadelphia USA"]
[Date "2004.07.04"]
[Round "6"]
[White "Friedel, Joshua E"]
[Black "Shibut, Macon A"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B00"]
[WhiteElo "2483"]
[BlackElo "2289"]
[EventDate "2004.07.01"]

1.e4 Nc6 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 Bg4 4.d5 Ne5 5.Nxe5 Bxd1 6.Bb5+ c6 7.dxc6 Qa5+ 8.Nc3 O-O-O 9.Nc4 Qc7 10.Nd5 Bxc2 11.Nxc7 Kxc7 12.cxb7 Bxe4 13.Be3 Kxb7 14.f3 Bd5 15.Na5+ Ka8 16.Rc1 e6 17.Ke2 Ne7 18.Rc7 Nc8 19.Rhc1 Be7 20.Ba6 Kb8 21.Bxc8 1-0

Interesting article, brabo -- thanks.

@ Charles G -- I also like the ...Bb4+ anti-Scotch! How's the variation holding up these days? I'd love it if you started a separate thread on this in the e4 e5 Forum.

Btw, I relectantly concluded that my 3 ...Bg4/4 ...e5 line mentioned above doesn't work, because of 5 d5 Ne7 6 c4 g6 7 h3!. But who knows, perhaps the last word hasn't been written here?

HELLO! everyone...  Ive been playing 1...Nc6 quite some time now. against Nf3 i play d5! because i saw it in the Vlassov article from Kasparovchess.com.. Soren i read that you had the article in russian, i would greatly appreciate it if you could email it to me, my email is Benko187@msn.com.. if you guys have any questions for Nc6 defence i would be more than happy to answer questions.. by the way, against the scotch, instead of Qf6 like martin recommends, i prefer the Bb4+ lines, followed by Bc5!!! very interesting.

I wonder what guidedbyvoices, or anyone else, thinks of my recent attempts to make 2 Nf3 d6 3 d4 Bg4 4 Be3(!) e5!? work. Here’s my thinking. In the usual line with 3 …Nf6 4 Nc3 Bg4 5 Be3 e5 6 Bb5 ed, I believe 7 Qd4 followed by long castling is meant to give White an edge whereas 7 Bd4 Be7 is less impressive. But after 4 …e5 5 Bb5 ed 6 Qd4 (6 Bd4 Nf6, though there may be others), Black’s king’s knight is uncommitted, so perhaps Black can play 6 …Ne7!?, following up with …a6, or the active …d5!?, as appropriate (e.g. 7 Qc3 a6 looks OK). In some positions Black can castle long himself.

The other main White try is presumably 5 d5. After 5 …Ne7 (I haven’t explored 5 …Nb8, and I feel uncertain about when this is good) 6 Nc3 Nf6 we’ve transposed to 5 …e5 6 d5 Ne7 which is usually considered OK for Black, so maybe White should try 6 c4 (6 h3 Bd7 7 c4 c5!? has been seen and looks OK?), when I’ve two tentative ideas. The first is 6 …Ng6 followed by …Be7 with dark-square play -- I can only find two games which began like this, both of which were drawn. The second idea is 6 …g6. Now 7 Nc3 Bg7 would actually transpose into a Modern Averbakh with 4 …Nc6 5 Be3 e5 6 d5 Nce7 7 Nf3 Bg4. This position has seldom been reached by this move order (7 Nf3?! is almost always met by 7 …f5), but from it Black has scored very well. So is 6 c4 unimpressive, or has White better than 7 Nc3?

Quote:


They have two-and-a-half pages on this, largely based around the game Dutschak-Stromer, '94.  It's perhaps not very long but, I think, quite effective coverage. For example this from the introductory text
p. 117 " Die hier vorweggenommene Gegenangriff auf das blanke Feld d4 zieht eigentlich nicht so recht; zumindest dann, wenn der Anziende hinreichenden Sachverstand aufbringt bezüglich genauen (keinesfalls zu frühen!) Timings eines nachzureichenden d2-d4 ...."


tafl: the Qd6 retreat is interesting (I think it was discussed somewhere on this site?).  Do you have a suggestion where to look for information on this position (books, magazine articles)?

Let me just suggest 2.Nf3 d5 3.exd5 Qxd5 4.Nc3 Qd6!? which is likely to transpose to the 3...Qd6 Scandinavian after 5.d4 Nf6. But Black may also try 5...a6!? or 5...Bg4?! if he wants to stay in the fringes of established theory.

[quote author=guidedbyvoices  link=1118977737/0#7 date=1120588466]
An even better line for white may be if he delays playing d4 since the d4 pawn only seems to serve as a target for black in this line,  for example 1e4 Nc6 2Nf3 d5 3ed Qxd5 4Nc3 Qa5 5Bb5 Bd7 (Hort played a6 here against Karpov back in the 70s but please dont do it, Bg4 is also bad now) 60-0 a6 7Bxc6 Bxc6 8d4 0-0-0 9Ne5 Be8 10b4! was Emms-Kristensen 1996 in which Emms scored a crushing victory with his b4 novelty. There are earlier deviations which Black can take however. I would love to see Vlassovs article on this line as he is the main exponent of it, so if anyone knows where an online copy is to be found or even where one can be purchased I would be grateful.
 [/quote]


Certainly Keilhack & Schlenker agres that the most critical lines are where White delays d4

I have a printout of Vlasov's article in Russian. Does anyone know if there was an English translation?
Guidesbyvoices, if you are interested, I'll be happy to send you a copy.

In the Russian version of the article there is no mention of the Emms-Kristiansen game and no mention of 10.b4, only 10.Be3 and 10.Qf3.

In the game Deviatkin - Vlasov, 1999, which may have been played to late to include in the Kasparovchess article, Vlasov avoids the  Emms line by not castling on move eight, i.e., 1.e4 Nc6 2.Nf3 d5 3.exd5 Qxd5 4.Nc3 Qa5 5.Bb5 Bd7 6.0-0 a6 7.Bxc6 Bxc6 8.0-0 e6 and on 9.Ne5 he played Bd6.

Perhaps that can be read as his recommendation

Thanks for the very helpful thoughts on 2 ...d5. I've been tied up with work but will take a proper look at this tomorrow.

Re 3 ...Bg4 4 Be3, I'd assumed Black might have extra options after 4 ...e6!? (of course 4 ...e5 is possible too, but then can Black avoid transposing to 3 ...Nf6 4 Nc3 Bg4 5 Be3 e5?), as highlighted in a recent-ish ChessPub update, but I'm concerned about 5 h3 (5 Nc3 d5!?) Bh5 6 d5!? (6 g4?! Bg6 7 d5 ed 8 ed Nb4!), meeting 6 ...Ne5 with 7 g4. Thoughts?