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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Nimzowitch Defense with e5 (Read 13816 times)
guidedbyvoices
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Re: Nimzowitch Defense with e5
Reply #7 - 07/05/05 at 18:34:26
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[quote author=Michael Ayton  link=1118977737/0#6 date=1120553695]2 …d5 is certainly interesting. I seem to remember Vlassov publishing an article on it on Kasparov’s old website. What do you reckon are the critical lines, guidedbyvoices? Some books suggest 2 …d5 transposes to a Scandinavian, but I think it unlikely Black would reach these positions via 1 …d5.

Also, can anyone tell me what’s wrong with 2 …d6 3 d4 Bg4!?, which is not really covered on ChessPub, nor in NCO? Harding says 4 Bb5 a6 5 Ba4 b5 6 Bb3 is good for White, but is this clearly so? For example:
[/quote]

for my money the critical lines of 1e4 Nc6 2Nf3 d5 variation are where white plays an early Bb5, i would venture to suggest that black is ok against other lines. Bb5 can be played either with or without d4. for instance one line was 1e4 Nc6 2Nf3 d5 3ed Qxd5 4Nc3 Qa5 5d4 Bg4 6Bb5 and now Vlassov has played 0-0-0 7Bc6 bc 8h3 Qh5 9Qd3 Bf3 10gf e5 11Qa6 Kd7(!) the exclamation mark is given by Berdichevsky but I dont agree with it since after the obvious 12de capture (which Berdichevsky doesnt even mention)  it looks to me like white is much better, still Vlassov has played it with success against top GMs so who am i to argue  ;)

Maybe a better line for black is 6...e6 as endorsed by Myers when I think Black may be just about ok eg 7h3 Bh5 8g4 Bg6 9Ne5 Bb4!

An even better line for white may be if he delays playing d4 since the d4 pawn only seems to serve as a target for black in this line,  for example 1e4 Nc6 2Nf3 d5 3ed Qxd5 4Nc3 Qa5 5Bb5 Bd7 (Hort played a6 here against Karpov back in the 70s but please dont do it, Bg4 is also bad now) 60-0 a6 7Bxc6 Bxc6 8d4 0-0-0 9Ne5 Be8 10b4! was Emms-Kristensen 1996 in which Emms scored a crushing victory with his b4 novelty. There are earlier deviations which Black can take however. I would love to see Vlassovs article on this line as he is the main exponent of it, so if anyone knows where an online copy is to be found or even where one can be purchased I would be grateful.

Regarding your 3..Bg4 suggestion Michael it certainly seems that it can lead to some interesting deviations, however can't white just play as in the main line with 4Be3 which will lead back into 3Nf6 lines after Nc3 and Be2 or is blacks idea to play e5 rather than e6 followed by d5?  
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Nimzowitch Defense with e5
Reply #6 - 07/05/05 at 08:54:55
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2 …d5 is certainly interesting. I seem to remember Vlassov publishing an article on it on Kasparov’s old website. What do you reckon are the critical lines, guidedbyvoices? Some books suggest 2 …d5 transposes to a Scandinavian, but I think it unlikely Black would reach these positions via 1 …d5.


Also, can anyone tell me what’s wrong with 2 …d6 3 d4 Bg4!?, which is not really covered on ChessPub, nor in NCO? Harding says 4 Bb5 a6 5 Ba4 b5 6 Bb3 is good for White, but is this clearly so? For example:

(1) 6 …e6 7 c3 Nf6 8 Nbd2. H. says White’s a bit better after 8 …Be7 9 0-0 0-0 10 Re1 Na5 11 Bc2 c5 12 Nf1 Rc8, but 12 …cd 13 cd Nc6 looks like a clear improvement. Also Lehmann-Van Geet, Hoogovens 1964 went 8 …Na5 9 Bc2 c5 10 0-0 Be7 11 Qe2 cd 12 cd Qb6 (12 …Rc8!?) 13 Rd1 Nc6 14 Nb3 d5 15 e5 Nd7 16 Be3 Na5 17 Na5 Qa5 18 a4 and White won, but what about 16 …0-0, intending …Rac8?

(2) 6 …Nf6 7 c3 e5 8 0-0 Be7. Now H. points out that 9 Re1 0-0 is a 9 d4 Bg4 Spanish (C91), but in citing Adorjan’s 9 h3 Bh5! (9 …Bf3?! 10 Qf3 ed 11 Qg3!) fails to mention that this is a (C84) Spanish too. (In the Spanish move order, the first line is usually reached via 3 …a6 4 Ba4 Nf6 5 0-0 Be7 6 Re1 b5 7 Bb3 d6 8 c3 0-0 [or occasionally 7 …0-0 8 d4 d6! 9 c3 Bg4], and the second line frequently via the Steinitz Defence Deferred, 4 …d6 5 0-0 Bg4 6 h3 Bh5!? 7 c3 Nf6! 8 d4 b5!? 9 Bb3 Be7, but both lines may also be reached via 3 …a6 4 Ba4 Nf6 5 0-0 b5!? 6 Bb3 Be7 7 d4 d6 8 c3 Bg4.) So is there anything wrong with 9 …Bh5?


The other major line is 4 d5, on which there’s perplexingly little commentary. After 4 …Ne5!? it seems 5 Ne5 is no problem, but how should Black handle 5 Bb5, not mentioned by H.?. There’s also 4 …Nb8!?. Here White has a large plus score in the lines where he plays Nc3 not c2-c4 (which for some reason is all H. and Myers consider), but how easy is it for him to prove an advantage if, say, Black handles the position like a Modern with …c6 and answers h3 with …Bd7? (I guess this transposes to 3 …Nf6 4 Nc3 Bg4 5 d5 Nb8 lines.)

Can anyone shed any further light on these 3 …Bg4 lines, and/or indicate what Berdichevsky says about them?


PS  Should this whole thread be in the Daring Defences Forum?

  
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guidedbyvoices
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Re: Nimzowitch Defense with e5
Reply #5 - 07/03/05 at 06:20:38
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its also worth mentioning that after 1e4 Nc6 2Nf3 d6 3d4 Nf6 4Nc3 Bg4 5Be3 e6 6Be2 Be7 7d5 Bxf3 white can respond 8gxf3 (rather than Bxf3) hoping to make use of the semi-open g file after castling queenside.
personally i think that 1e4 Nc6 2Nf3 d5 is underated and more interesting for black than the 2..d6 lines but it might not suit someone so much if you want to play 1e4 Nc6 2d4 e5 as it would if you played 1e4 Nc6 2d4 d5.
  
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Re: Nimzowitch Defense with e5
Reply #4 - 07/02/05 at 15:40:25
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For both the lines you are thinking of playing I guess you should look up the usual sources such as Myers and Schlenker & Keilhack as well as the recent Berdichevsky book which provides a handy format for looking through games.

The biggest problem in my opinion is the 1.e4 Nc6 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 Nf6 4.Nc3 Bg4 line. The theory, such as it is, does not point to a clear white advantage in any line, but at least for my taste Black's position often becomes rather lifeless. Just by playing natural moves white gets a small advantage and really is not set any particularly difficult problems to solve.

If you do not mind to grovel for a while and/or have the skills of the much missed Tony Miles it is fine, if not it can be a useful way of dropping half-points where you shouldn't. 


The line mentioned by Guidedby voices 5.Be3 e6 6.Be2 Be7 7.d5 is an example.

I think it is fair to say that a main line after this is 7...exd5 8.exd5 Bxf3 9.Bxf3 Ne5 10.Be2 0-0

A look in databases shows that black has done rather well from this position though one should note that - for once in this opening - the rating advantage has generally been on the black side, with players such as Miles, Rogers and Gonzalez. In any case, it probably is not a position where white can claim more than a very small advantage but it require patient play from black.

Another related line to look out for is 1.e4 Nc6 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 Nf6 4.Nc3 Bg4 5.Be3 e6 6.h3 Bh5 7.d5 exd5 8.exd5 Nb8 9.g6 Bg6 10. Qe2

There are alternatives for black on moves 7 and 8 but none that are better, I believe. 10.Qe2 has been rarely played but looked bad for black after 10..Be7 11.Qb5.
In a recent correspondence game I therefore played 10...Nbd7 offering the a-pawn for a bit of "luft"  though white actually played 11.Bg2 instead and soon after withdrew.
  
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Re: Nimzowitch Defense with e5
Reply #3 - 06/30/05 at 16:04:00
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Quote:
After 3. d5 (claiming a space advantage) black can go either ... Nce7 or ... Nb8 (one of my club mates goes ... Na5 but that line is a joke methinks). Surelly whites space advantage must count for something. Can black afford to play an early ... f5 after e.g. 3 ... Nce7?

After 1. e4 Nc6 2. d4 e5 3. d5 Nce7 4. Nf3 d6 5. Bd3 f5!? 6. Bg5!? white may be better (black becomes weak on the light squares, especially if he goes ... h6).

CheckMate


3...Na5 is certainly a joke, white wins a piece after 4b4.  After 4Nf3 then 4...Ng6 is probably best, black will develop his dark squared bishop on either c5 or b4 depending on whites plan.
  
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Re: Nimzowitch Defense with e5
Reply #2 - 06/30/05 at 11:37:07
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1. e4 Nc6 2. d4 e5!? is known as the Kevitz-Mikenas defense.
Several of my club mates plays this defense.

Basically white has 3 responses:

a) 3. d5
b) 3. dxe5
c) 3. Nf3 (transposing into the Scotch)

Now which one is best? Theory thinks 3. dxe5 Nxe5 4. f4 strongest but I'm
not so sure.

After 3. d5 (claiming a space advantage) black can go either ... Nce7 or ... Nb8 (one of my club mates goes ... Na5 but that line is a joke methinks). Surelly whites space advantage must count for something. Can black afford to play an early ... f5 after e.g. 3 ... Nce7?

After 1. e4 Nc6 2. d4 e5 3. d5 Nce7 4. Nf3 d6 5. Bd3 f5!? 6. Bg5!? white may be better (black becomes weak on the light squares, especially if he goes ... h6).

CheckMate





  
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Re: Nimzowitch Defense with e5
Reply #1 - 06/22/05 at 16:03:12
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its not exactly a new line but i've always felt that after 1e4 Nc6 2Nf3 d6 3d4 Nf6 4Nc4 Bg4 5Be3 e6 6Be2 Be7.. 7d5! gives white the better of things. i know Miles played the black side of it quite successfully a few times but i dont think its to everyones tastes.
  
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Nimzowitch Defense with e5
06/16/05 at 22:08:54
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I know there is another thread on Nimzo, but it mainly focuses on 1.e4 Nc6 2. d4 d5.  I am beginning to take up this defense as my 'second string' system for the times i want to upset a booked up opponent or to create imbalances vs. a weaker opponent.  My second string defense to d4 is the Chigorin, so i though the nimzo is a natural choice. 

The only refrence material i have so far is Andrew Martin's Foxy Openings video, which is quite old.  He advocates:

1. e4 Nc6 2. d4 e5 with Qf6 in the Scotch
1. e4 Nc6 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 Nf6 4. Nc3 Bg4

Any recent opening theory i should be aware of in these lines?
  
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