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ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match (Read 12603 times)

GMEricPrie Full Member Offline "The most simple moves are the less complicated" Posts: 145 Location: France Joined: 06/18/03 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #173 - 10/03/05 at 02:42:25	Post Tools	Print Post
	I knew I had seen some improvement posted by some BDGeer somewhere That is right Arkhein, 20.Rf5 Bf6 21.Rxh5 Rxh5 22.Qxh5 0-0-0 and Black is not better as the weakness of White's h pawn is not very relevant 23.Qe2! ( threatening Bxa6) 23...Rh8 24.h5 Nf4 and the best for Black is even to leave the Nf4 to its fate in order to open the long diagonal with an easy blockade on dark squares in case of capture. Surely a safer way for White to achieve the draw!


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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #172 - 10/01/05 at 05:23:04	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: OK Arkhein, I touched the bishop ;o) so I have to move it, preferably to e7, threatening to win a second pawn and intending 20.d6 Bf6, his best place. That is probably why Patrik played the prophylactic 19.Qf2 Here is my copy and past when I gived Rdf1! as an improvement in your game's thread: "And the only move to stay with a pawn up for Black (maybe they should give up that pawn) is 19..Be7 20.Rf5 Bxh4 21.Rxh5(Rxh4!?)Rxh5 22.Qxh5 Be7 23.Be2! (with the idea of Bg4) and White have a very nice play for the pawn, one of Black's problem here is the king in the centre. I think that 19.Rdf1 is something like +/= and 19.Qf2 is = " Quote: 4.f3! exf3?! (4...e3) 5.Nxf3 4..e3 isn't dangerous at all, no one BDGer fears that defense, it still give an attack with pawn storm g4-h4, the pieces are well develloped (for example Nc3, Bd3 or c4, Ne2, Be3, Qd2, 0-0 or 0-0-0) without the cost of the pawn.


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GMEricPrie Full Member Offline "The most simple moves are the less complicated" Posts: 145 Location: France Joined: 06/18/03 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #171 - 10/01/05 at 02:46:45	Post Tools	Print Post
	OK Arkhein, I touched the bishop ;o) so I have to move it, preferably to e7, threatening to win a second pawn and intending 20.d6 Bf6, his best place. That is probably why Patrik played the prophylactic 19.Qf2


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GMEricPrie Full Member Offline "The most simple moves are the less complicated" Posts: 145 Location: France Joined: 06/18/03 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #170 - 10/01/05 at 02:39:08	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2.e4? There should be another name than BDG for that sequence...Albin Reversed, Queen's pawn French Rubinstein, Caro Kann, Modern; any other ideas ? 2...dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6?! 3...e5!= Black has easy play and that is the point with the Lemberger provided that it is played in an EP spirit From that stage I would rather be on the White side. 4.f3! exf3?! (4...e3) 5.Nxf3 White has good chances provided that they play in an ED spirit and WE WON the match 2,5-0,5


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10780 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #169 - 09/30/05 at 20:55:40	Post Tools	Print Post
	There is equality and equality of course. Can White strive for a dynamically equal position after 3...e5 4.Nge2 (counterintuitive move imo) Bb4 or has Black easy play? If the latter is the case, than the BDG is about as dead as the Gréco-Möller Attack.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #168 - 09/30/05 at 15:36:29	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: 19.Rdf1 is what I was expecting... 19...Bd6 20.Rhg1 (20.Rf5 Nf4) Rh7 (21.Rg5 Qe7) and the game is =+ exactly like against 19.Qf2. 20.Rf5! is the move (and was the idea of my improvement). And you give 20..Nf4, then 21.Bxf4 exf4 22.e5! 0-0-0 23.Rxf4 and I wait for your =/+, I would say +/= at least, and for me White is +/= after 19.Rdf1! Quote: The Lemberger refutes the BDG, because of 3...e5! no Master will ever play it regularly and 4...Bb4 buries the Rasmussen 4.Nge2. If we agree that (=) agast the BDG is a refutation, then the Lemberger refutes the BDG (White "only" have draw, they are refuted!) but if (=) is a refutation, then, there is more than 1 way to reach that. But I don't consider an equality as being a refutation, sorry Of course I admit with you that 4.Nge2 Bb4 is a quite easy way to reach (=) for Black, but that's not a way to show the pawn sacrifice is bad, so logically, this is a REAL(=) for White too (I say real because Black are not always convinced of the (=) for White after the gambit accepted), that's not so bad no?, but not too ambitious at your level where White try to have +/= from the first move and to keep it, and gradually trying to improve the slight advantage, so I understand your point Eric


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GMEricPrie Full Member Offline "The most simple moves are the less complicated" Posts: 145 Location: France Joined: 06/18/03 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #167 - 09/30/05 at 15:09:49	Post Tools	Print Post
	Well, possibly not the blindfold improvisation 20.Rf5 Nf4


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GMEricPrie Full Member Offline "The most simple moves are the less complicated" Posts: 145 Location: France Joined: 06/18/03 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #166 - 09/30/05 at 14:56:46	Post Tools	Print Post
	Very much ressembles the politic situation in Germany 19.Rdf1 is what I was expecting... 19...Bd6 20.Rhg1 (20.Rf5 Nf4) Rh7 (21.Rg5 Qe7) and the game is =+ exactly like against 19.Qf2. Should I have continued, win it and make a couple of chatterboxes cool out ? 8) Can't be bothered. That overall result serves my talk as I also have to 'fight' against the good people inside my own camp. The Lemberger refutes the BDG, because of 3...e5! no Master will ever play it regularly and 4...Bb4 buries the Rasmussen 4.Nge2.


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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #165 - 09/29/05 at 11:47:47	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: BDG leads 3-1 (2 wins, 2 draws, 0 lost). It is not a bad result, is it? Hey, you antiBDGers, what the gambit is with you? Sure, we scored 75% in 4 games, that's not bad, mostly when we see BDG's reputation. But Markovich could have draw with a little more proper play (for example f5 instead of Re4?), it's important to notice that. And don't forgot the improvement I found in your game against Prié (Rdf1! instead of your Qf2) with +/= at least, instead of (=). Quote: Looking back at the game, perhaps 22...Kxc7 was better than my 22...Qxc7. I thought, mistakenly, that to win, it would be enough merely to bring about some more exchanges (envisioning ...Qf4). But after 22...Kxc7, Black is better set to play ...f5, which is his main source of counterplay. Yes, I think 22..Kxc7 was slighty more precise than 22..Qxc7, but I think White can draw everywhere with a good play.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #164 - 09/29/05 at 11:34:29	Post Tools	Print Post
	I maintain my original view that after 9...Nh5 Black is slightly better. White may indeed be able to draw with best play, however. Looking back at the game, perhaps 22...Kxc7 was better than my 22...Qxc7. I thought, mistakenly, that to win, it would be enough merely to bring about some more exchanges (envisioning ...Qf4). But after 22...Kxc7, Black is better set to play ...f5, which is his main source of counterplay. My present view is that the line most critical for 5...Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 is Patrik's 7. g4 Bg6 8. Bg2 c6 9. h4 Bb4 10. Bg5. I will look further at that.

	The Great Oz has spoken!
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Sevenviolets Full Member Offline Posts: 176 Location: Brno Joined: 05/19/05 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #163 - 09/29/05 at 06:47:16	Post Tools	Print Post
	Congratulations ArKheiN! My final line analysis went 37.Rf1 and game is over... 37...f5 [37...f6 38.Nc5+ Kc8 39.Qa8+ Kc7 40.Na6+ Kb6 41.Rc1 Re4 42.Qc8+-] 38.Nc5+ Kc8 39.Qa6+ Kc7 40.Qa7+ Kc8 41.Qa8+ Kc7 42.Na6+ Kb6 43.Rc1 Re4 44.Qc8 Re7 45.Nb4 Re6 46.Qa6+ Kc7 47.Qa7+ Kc8 48.Rxc6+ Qxc6 49.Nxc6 Rxc6 50.b4+- BDG leads 3-1 (2 wins, 2 draws, 0 lost). It is not a bad result, is it? Hey, you antiBDGers, what the gambit is with you? And yes, good news everyone, Rajmund Emanuel has found an improvement in the game Schoupal vs Bonsai. I´m going to check it today and soon to send. BDG is alive!


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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #162 - 09/26/05 at 22:13:53	Post Tools	Print Post
	Oh Markovich, gg, I think your only real error was 32..Re4 that apparently stopped a4 at first sight (but not really, like the game showed) and something like 32..f6 or 32..f5 were better, but I would have played a4 anyway, but not that powerful here. But I am really really surprised of your premature resigning!! Yes 37..f5 should lose according to my analysis , but even here it's premature to resign. Here is a little possible continuation after 37..f5 that could have explained the resigning : 38.Nc5+ Kc8 39.Qa6+ Kc7 40.Rc1 Rg4 41.Qb7+ Kd8 42.h3! Rf4 43.Qb6+ Ke7 44.Nd3 +- But really, after 37.Rf1 and after my analysis, I can objectively say that you have drawing chances! Yes I like my position, I have nice winning chances, but that's not so desesperate for you. Here is my point : 37..Nf4! the knight come back into the game 20 moves later 38.Nc5+ Kc8 39.Kc2 Qb8! (39..Qe7 40.Re1 Re4 41.Qa8+ Kc7 42.Qb7+ Kd6 43.Nxe4+ dxe4 44.Qb8+ Qc7 45.Qxc7+ Kxc7 46.Rf1 Ne6 47.Rxf7+ Kd6 48.b4 Nd4+ 49.Kd2 Nf5 50.Kc3 etc, and it should not be easy to win because I need to end up with R+p against N to win, that's not an easy task but it doesn't seem impossible.) 40.Re1 Re4 41.Nxe4 dxe4 42.Rxe4 Ne6 43.Qd2 c5 44.Kb2 Qb7 (this line is maybe Black's best chance to draw and I am not really sure that I can convert my advantage into a decisive advantage) I am interested of your toughts about 37..Nf4! and the lines I gived, to see if you agree with the moves and assesment. About the opening : 9..Nh5 really deserve respects or even a (!) (other moves than 9..Nh5 is somewhat better for White) But we have seen one of the drawback of this move : the Knight can stay here for a long time like in this game where he didn't moved one single time after move 9. And my response : 10.Be3 is mostly a positional and solid move, if you compare with my other alternative 10.Nxg6!? hxf6 11.Bd3. I agree with you that you reached equality in the opening, but even if you seemed to control the defense with "easy moves", White's compensation really existed and it's a danger to underestimate that. From a theorical point of view, other players played the same position a few time until move 15, where White always played 15.Rdf1, so my 15.Rhf1 is a novelty, and maybe an improvement (White shouldn't be too affraid to lose the h pawn at that moment, and keep the 2 rooks active) In conclusion, 9..Nh5 is good, 10.Be3 is solid, positionnal and the position is roughly even, but not very pleasant to play against Black's fortress. Black have a pawn up, a position solid as a rock, but we can't win a game just on staying too solid, they need to liberate their position to show that the pawn up is an advantage, but they liberate White's position also which have dynamic compensations. In the whole game, both side maintened an equality (or a very little advantage for Black.) The position opened, White's dynamical compensation really began to play at this moment(like a delayed compensation, that show that the BDG have somes strategics compensations, mostly the f-file semi-open) but White had just an equality (or very close to..), with nothing more. If Black had not blundered with 32..Re4?, the game would surely have been a draw (32..f6 or 32..f5 were good). So I believe that after 9..Nh5 and 10.Be3 White can draw, but nothing more against the best play, and Black can hope a bit more but I am not too happy with this idea, even if a draw with the BDG against a strong opponent is not that bad.


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10780 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #161 - 09/26/05 at 21:43:58	Post Tools	Print Post
	My quick and superficial analysis runs 32...f5 33.a4 bxa4 34.Qa5 Kc8 35.Nc5 Re7 36.c4 Nf4 37.cxd5 Nxd5 and I do not see how White can avoid the draw.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #160 - 09/26/05 at 20:22:56	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Qd6 27.Qe3 b6 28.Na6+ Kb7 29.Nb4 Rd8 30.Qd3 b5 31.Qd2 Re8 32.Nd3 Re4 33.a4 bxa4 34.Qa5 Rc4 35.b3 axb3 36.cxb3 Rd4 37.Rf1 f5 ...and resigns. Well played, Arkhein. It seems that I misplayed with 32...Re4. 33. a4! surprised me. White is winning now, though this sheds scant light on the validity of the line of defense at the 9th move. Also 23...Qf4 was perhaps not the best. After that, I pressed a little too hard to show my winning chances. My present view is that Black is at least equal after the opening.

	The Great Oz has spoken!
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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #159 - 09/26/05 at 13:28:19	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Qd6 27.Qe3 b6 28.Na6+ Kb7 29.Nb4 Rd8 30.Qd3 b5 31.Qd2 Re8 32.Nd3 Re4 33.a4 bxa4 34.Qa5 Rc4 35.b3 axb3 36.cxb3 Rd4 37.Rf1 Not bad was 37.Nc5+ Qxc5 38.Qxc5 Rxd1+ 39.Kc2 Rf1 White have a draw for sure(White can't lose) but it has less winning chances(to not say any) than my move : 37.Rf1


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #158 - 09/26/05 at 07:11:50	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Qd6 27.Qe3 b6 28.Na6+ Kb7 29.Nb4 Rd8 30.Qd3 b5 31.Qd2 Re8 32.Nd3 Re4 33.a4 bxa4 34.Qa5 Rc4 35.b3 axb3 36.cxb3 Rd4

	The Great Oz has spoken!
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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #157 - 09/22/05 at 23:47:20	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Isn't 37...f5 an improvement? I already have refuted 33...Rxa4 myself. 33.a4! is really a nice shot. It casts doubt on Black's rook manoeuvre. 37..f5 should be even worse, but I have to go now, I will post analysis later. 33..Rxa4 and I have too, found an advantage for me. 33..f6 or 33..f5 were interesting. See you later.


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10780 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #156 - 09/22/05 at 23:41:32	Post Tools	Print Post
	Isn't 37...f5 an improvement? I already have refuted 33...Rxa4 myself. 33.a4! is really a nice shot. It casts doubt on Black's rook manoeuvre.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #155 - 09/22/05 at 23:35:37	Post Tools	Print Post
	After 34..Kc8 I surely would have win, this is a sample forceful variation : 34..Kc8 35.Nc5 Re7 36.Rd4 Qb8 37.Rxa4 f6 38.Qc3 Ra7 39.Qe3 Rxa4 40.Qe6+ Kc7 41.Qe7+ Kb6 42.Nd7+ Kb7 43.Nxb8+ Kxb8 44.gxf6 Nxf6 45.Qf8+ Kc7 46.Qxg7+ Nd7 47.Qxg6 and I should win because of the h pawn, with Queen against his Rook+Knight. You can notice that most of the moves are forced for Black.


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10780 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #154 - 09/22/05 at 21:33:53	Post Tools	Print Post
	ArKhein, how would you have continued after 34...Kc8 ?

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #153 - 09/22/05 at 15:10:15	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Qd6 27.Qe3 b6 28.Na6+ Kb7 29.Nb4 Rd8 30.Qd3 b5 31.Qd2 Re8 32.Nd3 Re4 33.a4 bxa4 34.Qa5 Rc4 35.b3 axb3 36.cxb3


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #152 - 09/22/05 at 15:07:26	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Qd6 27.Qe3 b6 28.Na6+ Kb7 29.Nb4 Rd8 30.Qd3 b5 31.Qd2 Re8 32.Nd3 Re4 33.a4 bxa4 34.Qa5 Rc4 35.b3 axb3

	The Great Oz has spoken!
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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #151 - 09/22/05 at 14:12:49	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Qd6 27.Qe3 b6 28.Na6+ Kb7 29.Nb4 Rd8 30.Qd3 b5 31.Qd2 Re8 32.Nd3 Re4 33.a4 bxa4 34.Qa5 Rc4 35.b3


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #150 - 09/22/05 at 07:21:25	Post Tools	Print Post
	I'm not in a hurry, dear chessfriend, but the theoretical significance of the game diminshes rapidly as we play deeper. I would have chosen another venue for a chess contest pure and simple. 1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Qd6 27.Qe3 b6 28.Na6+ Kb7 29.Nb4 Rd8 30.Qd3 b5 31.Qd2 Re8 32.Nd3 Re4 33.a4 bxa4 34.Qa5 Rc4

	The Great Oz has spoken!
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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #149 - 09/21/05 at 18:28:55	Post Tools	Print Post
	Hey Markovich, don't be too hurry, even if the result might be a draw, it's too premature to agree it just now, mostly when I begin to feel happy with my position! I generally accept a draw only when the position is clearly going to draw (a clear draw ending, a perpetual check, or draw by repetitions where I have no better choice), or when I believe I am worse. 1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Qd6 27.Qe3 b6 28.Na6+ Kb7 29.Nb4 Rd8 30.Qd3 b5 31.Qd2 Re8 32.Nd3 Re4 33.a4 bxa4 34.Qa5


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #148 - 09/21/05 at 16:49:09	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Qd6 27.Qe3 b6 28.Na6+ Kb7 29.Nb4 Rd8 30.Qd3 b5 31.Qd2 Re8 32.Nd3 Re4 33.a4 bxa4 Offer draw. (Edited to correct "bxa5" to "bxa4".)

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Sevenviolets Full Member Offline Posts: 176 Location: Brno Joined: 05/19/05 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #147 - 09/21/05 at 07:42:38	Post Tools	Print Post
	It seems it is not possible to lose when playing BDG:)


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10780 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #146 - 09/20/05 at 22:42:42	Post Tools	Print Post
	It seems, as if White forces the draw after 36.Qa8+. Also 33...Rxa4 34.Qf2 Kc8 35.Qxf7 Re4 36.Qa7 Ra4 37.Qf7. I suspect, that Markovich' intentions with the knight on h5 did not entirely come true.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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Losetowin Full Member Offline The caveman Posts: 104 Location: oslo Joined: 12/13/03	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #145 - 09/20/05 at 12:48:38	Post Tools	Print Post
	Nice move Arkhein! After 33 ,,, bxa4 34 Qa5 Kc8 35 Nc5 Re7 it looks equal


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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #144 - 09/20/05 at 12:34:38	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Qd6 27.Qe3 b6 28.Na6+ Kb7 29.Nb4 Rd8 30.Qd3 b5 31.Qd2 Re8 32.Nd3 Re4 33.a4 Losetowin, I let you judge if my move is strongest than your propositions


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Losetowin Full Member Offline The caveman Posts: 104 Location: oslo Joined: 12/13/03	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #143 - 09/20/05 at 04:23:18	Post Tools	Print Post
	32 ...Re4 was a good move. Here i can see that both a) 33 Qf2 and b) 32 Qa5 are good a) 33 Qf2 (threatening Qxf7+ and Nc5+) Re7 34 Rg1 appears quite equal, since black yet has to solve how to bring his knight into the game. But still a lot of play left b) 33 Qa5 is more forcing : b1) Ra4 34 Qe1 and now b11) ....Re4 35 Qa5 = b12) ...f5 35 Qf2 = b13) ...f6 35 Qe8 Re4 36 Nc5+! = b2) ,,,,Nf4 34 Nb4 f6 35 Qa6+ = Feel free to critize or come with improvemnts of my lines.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #142 - 09/19/05 at 21:10:13	Post Tools	Print Post
	Thank you. 1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Qd6 27.Qe3 b6 28.Na6+ Kb7 29.Nb4 Rd8 30.Qd3 b5 31.Qd2 Re8 32.Nd3 Re4

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #141 - 09/19/05 at 14:18:27	Post Tools	Print Post
	Hello Markovich, I am happy to see you back from the hospital!! And happy to see you back to continue our game 1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Qd6 27.Qe3 b6 28.Na6+ Kb7 29.Nb4 Rd8 30.Qd3 b5 31.Qd2 Re8 32.Nd3


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #140 - 09/19/05 at 11:10:06	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Qd6 27.Qe3 b6 28.Na6+ Kb7 29.Nb4 Rd8 30.Qd3 b5 31.Qd2 Re8

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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10780 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #139 - 09/15/05 at 16:03:23	Post Tools	Print Post
	Still hope you will recover quickly. I was already missing your comments, especially those with which I can disagree.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #138 - 09/15/05 at 11:51:16	Post Tools	Print Post
	I am sorry to delay my move here, but I was in the hospital for the past five days (nothing terribly serious), and I've only just been released. Move soon.

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #137 - 09/05/05 at 10:45:01	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Qd6 27.Qe3 b6 28.Na6+ Kb7 29.Nb4 Rd8 30.Qd3 b5 31.Qd2 The transposition : 30.Qe2 b5 31.Qd2 was also possible, but 30.Qe2 and 30.Qd3 had their own independant lines where I haven't found a better line than 31.Qd2.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #136 - 09/05/05 at 08:24:42	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Qd6 27.Qe3 b6 28.Na6+ Kb7 29.Nb4 Rd8 30.Qd3 b5

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #135 - 08/31/05 at 19:54:32	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Qd6 27.Qe3 b6 28.Na6+ Kb7 29.Nb4 Rd8 30.Qd3 30.Qd3 and and 30.Qe2 were my first ideas, they are the "positional" choice in this position, and are both similar and can transpose. 30.Qe2 was just as good. But I was very interested in others ideas, to put fire in the board!! My first big idea was 30.c4!? (using the fact that b5 has not been played yet, and could be played soon, so this is practically the last try with c4 possible) and Black have to play very precisely, not only to conserve somes advantages, but to not lose also here!! 30..d4 is the best move here, the pawn is becoming more dangerous here than before, so why 30.c4? the response is 31.Qb3! (the point) with awful treaths. Now just somes good-looking moves, but inaccurate moves by Black to show the danger : 31..Dxh2? 32.c5! 31..Qc7? 32.c5! 31..c5 32.Qf3+! 31..Qe7 32.Qa4 Qe4+ 33.Ka2 Ra8 34.Re1! 31..Qe6 32.Nd3 Qf5 33.Re1 Kc7 34.c5 With advantage for White. But I have also worked to find Black best defense, the only one to stay better. 31..Nf4! 32.c5 Qe6 33.Qa4 bxc5 (33..Ra8 34.Qc2 unclear) 34.Qa6+ Kc7 35.Qa5+ Kd7 36.Qxc5 Qe4+ 37.Ka1 Ne6 38.Qc4 Rc8 unclear. Until now, I was still hesitating between the positional idea Qd3 or Qe2, and the sharp c4, because Black haven't managed to find a clear advantage, I think it's unclear/equal. But there was an improvement for Black, that was sufficient to let me forgive 30.c4!? This is the critical variation : 30.c4!? d4 31.Qb3! Nf4! 32.c5 bxc5! (yes, that simple move) 33.Nd3+ Kc8 34.Qxf7 Nxd3 35.Rxd3 Qd5 36.Qa7 Qf5 and Black is definitely better. But another idea came into my mind, Qb3 is the key move after c4, so, can I try to play 30.Qb3 before c4, with the idea to avoir somes defenses? Let's see somes ideas : 30.Qb3!? f5!? (anticipating the c4 treath)31.c4! Nf4 32.c5 (unclear) But I think, Black's best choice is 30..Nf4! (oh, again that annoying move) 31.Rf1! (here, c4 has been delayed for another good move, that's an advantage of 30.Qb3 over the immediate 30.c4) f5 32.Nxc6 Kxc6 33.Qa4+ b5 34.Qa6+ Kd7 35.Qb7+ Qc7 36.Qxc7+ Kxc7 37.Rxf4 Re8 was possibly the critical variation, I have regained the material, but now, Black's advantage is no more on material, but on the position. Even if it's a Rook ending with a material equality, I was quite affraid to play the White side here, because Black have the best ending here. But I haven't analyse too deep to know if it's draw or not. So, 30.Qb3 deserve attention, and the final assessment is not clear. Someone proposed 30.Rf1, but I think it's the worst of the"main alternatives" for White here, because it's just not as flexible as Qe2 or Qd3. Is my actual move and plan the best here? I hope so!


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Scholar God Member Offline Posts: 557 Location: Chicago Joined: 04/26/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #134 - 08/30/05 at 01:39:16	Post Tools	Print Post
	Perhaps I should post this on the other thread, but it was always my impression that August+French=Vacation, and that the country basically shuts down for the month. Assuming that stereotype still holds, it might expain Prie's delay in responding (along with the French Chmps.).


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X God Member Offline Education is a system of imposed ignorance.Chomsky Posts: 571 Joined: 10/04/03	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #133 - 08/30/05 at 01:21:27	Post Tools	Print Post
	MNb, I am flattered by your suggestion that I defend the Black side. It's a little funny that both of my suggestions have been 11...Be7. It's something I might consider, but I have a lot going on this semester. I wonder if ArKheiN or Sevenviolets would be interested in the idea at some point. Though, I must warn you that I have little experience with postal chess and I do not use computers for analysis (well, not yet). (Actually, I am little curious about how often computers are used in analysis. From what I hear, it seems like it is close to irresponsible to not use a computer to check one's analysis in postal chess.) I am open to the idea of a match, but I think I would need some time before I could commit. I wouldn't want to pull an Eric Prie! (Where is he?) I am looking forward to seeing Markovich's approach in this game! I am confident his moves will do the talking here.

	Power to the People!&&http://www.gravel2008.us/ http://www.nationalinitiative.us/&&Mike Gravel for President 2008
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Losetowin Full Member Offline The caveman Posts: 104 Location: oslo Joined: 12/13/03	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #132 - 08/28/05 at 08:33:25	Post Tools	Print Post
	One might wonder what white has in compensation for the pawn, in my view its two things: 1 The knight is temporarely idle on h5 2 The black king position is rather open Another line taking those facts into account are 29..Rd8 30 Qd3 b5 31 Rf1 Rd7 32 Qd2!? f6 33 Nd3 Re7 34 Qa5 Re8 35 b4 Ra8 36 Nc5+ Qxc5 37 Qxa8 Kxa8 38 bxc5 The weakend king position and idleness of knight is also felt here.


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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #131 - 08/28/05 at 04:00:24	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Dear ArKheiN, how do you intend to castle after 10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.Bd3 Qxd4 12.Rf1 Qh4+ 13.Kd1 f5 ? I assume, that even in Belgium castling is prohibited with a king on d1 . Ok sorry, when I have replyed to this, I haven't read 13.Kd1. I would play 13.Rf2 and after 13..f5, I continue with 14.gxf6 Nxf6 15.Bxg6+ Rd8 and castle-long soon. For this reason, I have said that 13..Bc5 is surely the best move. I have already done somes analysis on this line before I played the Be3 line, I intended to play it in a separate game, but maybe this will be our future match with Markovich. Quote: With the pawn on h3 Black has 11.Bd3 Qxd4 12.Nxg6 hxg6 13.Rf1 Qe5+ as I stated in a previous post. This way Black benefits from the hole on g3. 14.Ne2 and now, the hole in g3 is nicely covered. I have 2 wins by Leisebein, one after 14..Qc7 15.Be3 Bd6 and one after 14..Qc7 15.Be3 Bb4+ like in your game : Bocanegra Moreno,R (2346) - Michalek,M (2416) I don't think this line is particularly good for Black.


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Losetowin Full Member Offline The caveman Posts: 104 Location: oslo Joined: 12/13/03	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #130 - 08/28/05 at 02:10:31	Post Tools	Print Post
	I must remind u that kasparov has played such positions with dynamic play for pawn for ages. Now here are some analysis i think will cast doubt on a black advantage. While Rd8-d7 is interesting, it leaves a-file free for a white queen: 29..Rd8 30 Qd3 b5( looks forced if not ra8 ) 31 Rf1 Rd7 32 Qd2!? Re7(32 ...f6!?)( 32...f5!?) 33 Nd3 f5(f6!?) 34 Qa5 Re4 35 b4 Rc4 36 Re1 This line is not forced but it shows that a Qd2-Nd3-Qa5-b4 setup can be dangerous for black if he chose the rd8-d7 + b5 plan. Black need to find refinements, if he wanna claim aadvantage, agree? Ball is over to black side


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Losetowin Full Member Offline The caveman Posts: 104 Location: oslo Joined: 12/13/03	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #129 - 08/28/05 at 01:37:31	Post Tools	Print Post
	I think X is clearly underestimating whites dynamic chances, and emphasis too much of the extra pawn. Analysis will follow


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10780 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #128 - 08/27/05 at 22:19:59	Post Tools	Print Post
	Come on, ArKheiN, Markovich is only teasing you. Put his words the other way round: if he fails to win, it is not a recommendation to his ...Nh5 defense either, as White has an important improvement at move 10! To wet your appetite I have two interesting games, albeit with the pawn on h3. Sirve,O - Visti,H [D00] FINchT1 (1), 1999 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Pc3 Pf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Pxf3 Lg4 6.h3 Lh5 7.g4 Lg6 8.Pe5 e6 9.Df3 c6 10.g5 Ph5 11.Ld3 Dxd4 12.Pxg6 hxg6 13.Tf1 Dd7 14.Le3 Lb4 15.0–0–0 De7 16.Lxg6 fxg6 17.De4 Pd7 18.Dxg6+ Kd8 19.Tf7 De8 20.Tfxd7+ Dxd7 21.Dxe6 Dxd1+ 22.Pxd1 Pg3 23.Df7 Ph5 24.c3 Le7 25.Pf2 b6 26.Pg4 Tc8 27.Pe5 Tc7 28.Dg6 1–0 Bocanegra Moreno,R (2346) - Michalek,M (2416) [D00] EM/MN/041 ICCF Email, 25.10.2001 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Pc3 Pf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Pxf3 Lg4 6.h3 Lh5 7.g4 Lg6 8.Pe5 e6 9.Df3 c6 10.g5 Ph5 11.Ld3 Dxd4 12.Pxg6 hxg6 13.Tf1 De5+ 14.Pe2 Dc7 15.Le3 Lb4+ 16.c3 Ld6 17.Lxg6 fxg6 18.0–0–0 Pd7 19.Df7+ Kd8 20.Pd4 Kc8 21.Pxe6 Db8 22.Lc5 Pe5 23.Lxd6 Pxf7 24.Txf7 Dxd6 25.Txd6 a5 26.Tdd7 Ta7 27.Pd4 1–0

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #127 - 08/27/05 at 22:04:23	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Good grief, dear chessfreind, you're White, and you're touting your drawing chances. This hardly recommends your system. You are being provocative, I told you before, that if I had to play that game again, I would play in a more "BDG style" with something like Nxg6 hxg6 Bd3 because I am not totally happy with the middle-game resulting after Be3. If I play a gambit considered like dubious for lot of guys here, and didn't play moves like Bg2 instead of Qf3 that somes consider like better, and continue with an experimental variation with Be3 assessed as =/+ after Nh5 by yourself, and reach an ending with still a pawn down against a more experienced player, is it a shame to draw here? If the White player on the BDG have not won in the middle game, or have not found a forced winning ending, their last card on the table is the draw if I am still a pawn down, right? And even with the "standard" opening with White, it's not always possible to end with an advantage! Personnally I really like to play the Black piece because I don't believe in a real White advantage, even with the standard openings, if Black is accurate, or a +/= at best, which is really not a forced win, depending of the player's skill on the Black side.


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10780 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #126 - 08/27/05 at 21:52:10	Post Tools	Print Post
	Dear X, why don't you take up the challenge? Defend 4...Bf5/11...Be7 against ArKhein and 4...c6/11...Be7 against SevenViolets! It will be most interesting. Dear ArKheiN, how do you intend to castle after 10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.Bd3 Qxd4 12.Rf1 Qh4+ 13.Kd1 f5 ? I assume, that even in Belgium castling is prohibited with a king on d1 . With the pawn on h3 Black has 11.Bd3 Qxd4 12.Nxg6 hxg6 13.Rf1 Qe5+ as I stated in a previous post. This way Black benefits from the hole on g3. Nice refutation of 16...e5. 8) 29...Rd8 (indeed X's move) 30.Qe2 (30.Rf1 and what about f5 ?) b5 (Qc5? 31.Qa6+ Kb8 32.Qf1 +-) 31.Qf2 Rd7 and here I was thinking of 32.Rd3 to set the rook at work, before eventually manoeuvring the knight to c5. I am curious to see, which move ArKheiN will chose: 30.Qd3 (I think this is inferior), 30.Qe2 or 30.Rf1.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #125 - 08/27/05 at 21:51:54	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Qd6 27.Qe3 b6 28.Na6+ Kb7 29.Nb4 Rd8 I have had this move ready for some time, most particularly, before anyone here suggested it. I do not claim that Black wins, only that all the winning chances are his.

	The Great Oz has spoken!
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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #124 - 08/27/05 at 21:44:38	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: When I say that it will be very difficult to win for Markovich, it's not only for the actual position. He has somes problems to solve actually, but I speak in long-term too, reaching an ending like Rook+King+pawns vs Rook+King+one pawn up can be a possibility, and is normally draw in the most of the time, or even Rook+Knight+King+pawns vs Rook+Knight+King+one pawn up. In every possible type of ending, I think I can manage for a draw. The quite vulnerability of Black's King can be used with a possible perpetual check in somes possibles lines if the Queens are still on the board, and White have enough activity to put pressures in Black's position, like the e and/or f-file the d-pawn could be also a target after c4. To summarie, I think White's actual activity dictate Black's next moves where the pawn down is not annoying for the moment and if I reach an ending where the pawn down will begin to be an important factor, when I analyse the type of possible endings that can arise now, I am confident about my (big?)drawing chances. But let's the future decide about who was right here. Good grief, dear chessfreind, you're White, and you're touting your drawing chances. This hardly recommends your system.

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #123 - 08/27/05 at 20:48:13	Post Tools	Print Post
	There is lot of interesting responses tonight!! I will try to respond to some of the questions or remarks. Quote: 19.Ba2 can lead to interesting complications: a) 19...Rxd4 20.Rde1 a1) 20...Nc4 21.Bc3 Ne5 22.Qf2 looks good for White. a2) 20...Bxh2 is interesting: 21.Qf2 Be5 22.c3 Rxd2 23.Nxd2 Nd7 24.Ne4 Bc7 and Black can think of ...f5 again. a3) 20...Rdd8 21.Bxa5 Nd5 22.Bd2 Bxh2 23.c4 Qc7 24.cxd5 cxd5+ 25.Nc3 d4 26.Bxe6+ unclear. I think 19.Ba2 is a little more precise than 19.Bb3 against 19..Rxd4 because Black have not the interesting move a4!?with gain of tempo here, but I think 19..Nd5(!) could be the best move, with the idea to do put a piece on f4 with somes exchanges. And by comparison with 19.Bb3 in this position, I prefer the bishop on b3. Quote: Markovich wrote on 26-7: "Play solid moves; eschew the second pawn." That is a strong argument to prefer 10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.Bd3. Black can reach safe equality though with Qxd4 12.Rf1 Qh4+ 13.Kd1 f5 14.gxf6 gxf6 15.Bxg6+ Kd8 returning the pawns. After 13..f5 I would rather prefer White here, where your king is quite dangerously placed, and mine will castle long. 13..Bc5 could be the best move, as I have already analysed for my own new theory but I will keep it secret for an eventual new match against Markovich in this line. Quote: Another intriguing question is, if Black wants the white pawn on h2 or on h3: 5...Bg4 6.h3 Bh5 7.g4 Bg6 8.Ne5 e6 9.Qf3 c6 (there are many, many deviations) 10.g5 Nh5 11.Be3 (11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Qxd4 13.Rf1 and Qe5+ is a disruptive check) Nd7 12.Nxg6 hxg6 and if both players follow the game, after 24...Qf4 (in the game 23...Qf4) Black is better, as there is no check on h3! I have not found deviations for White from move 10, using the pawn on h3 to his benefit. Does this mean, that 5...Bg4 is more precise than 5...Bf5 ? That's a very interesting question that I had too, where I gave somes of my ideas in this thread the 07/08 There is a copy and past from a part of what I have said that day : But Leisebein played this position a few times like this : 1.d4 Nf6 2.f3 d5 3.e4 dxe4 4.Nc3 exf3 5.Nf3 Bg4 6.h3 Bh5 7.g4 Bg6 8.Ne5 e6 9.Qf3 c6 10.g5 Nh5 11.Bd3 Qxd4 12.Nxg6 fxg6 13.Be3 Qh4+ 14.Kd2 Ng3 15.Rhg1 Bd6 16.Qg4 Qxg4 17.hxg4 O-O 18.Rg2 Nd7 19.Rag1 where the games finished with a draw. The good point for Black of this similar way of play with the pawn on h2 is that White couln't put the queen on g4 here but g3 isn't an hole here. Of course it's still an interesting question I think. So, ok there is an hole in g3 compared with the same position with the pawn on h2, but it has the advantage of the Qg4! move in somes position, like in the possible main line that Leisebein have played a few times. For this reason, White should not fear fxg6 with the pawn on h3, compared with the pawn on h2. But the final conclusion of which of pawn on h2 or h3 is better, is still unclear. All depend of the presice continuation. Effectively, if the pawn was on h3 now instead of h2 in our actual game, it would favour Black here, but I wouldn't have playing in this way too. Quote: On the 10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.Bd3 line: I actually think 10.Bd3 is stronger (despite the ...fxg6 resource) because after 10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.Bd3, I think 11...Be7! is a strong move. If White would have nothing to fear about fxg6, then, the move order 10.Bd3! Qxd4 11.Ng6 hxg6 would be the most precise because it's more forceful like you have pointed out. But in my move order to avoid fxg6 after 10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.Bd3; ok Qxd4 isn't forced either, but I don't think 11..Be7 is too dangerous, after 12.0-0 I reach the type of position that I wanted for. I prefer to let 11..Be7 possible than hxg6. Quote: Question: in the actual game, was there something against 16...e5 ? Yes, 16..e5?! 17.d5! cxd5 18.Nc3 e4 19.Nxd5 exf3 20.Nxe7, etc, and White are better.


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X God Member Offline Education is a system of imposed ignorance.Chomsky Posts: 571 Joined: 10/04/03	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #122 - 08/27/05 at 19:55:01	Post Tools	Print Post
	Actually, I believe I suggested the plan with 29...Rd8!? I made an extra note on the last page. I hope my ideas are of some use! I think this is an interesting point in the game.

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Sevenviolets Full Member Offline Posts: 176 Location: Brno Joined: 05/19/05 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #121 - 08/27/05 at 19:44:05	Post Tools	Print Post
	29..Nf4?! Shredder 8 main line 30. c4 f6 31. cxd5 cxd5 32. Nxd5 Nxd5 33. Rxd5 Qxd5 34. Qe7+ Kc6 35. Qxf8= 29..Rd8!? This plan, recommended by MNb, seems quite promising 30. Rf1 a)30. h4? Ng3-/+ letting knight go out can't be good. b)30. Re1 c5 31. Qe7+ Rd7 32. Qxd6 Rxd6 33. Re7+ Kc8 34. Nd3 f6 35. Kc1 Rd7-+ 30... Rd7 31. Qd3 (31. Qe8?! Qe7-/+; 31.Qe2 seems to be quite similar to 31.Qd3, with possible transpositions) 31... c5 (31... b5!?) 32. Qa6+ Kb8 33. Nd3 f6!? (not 33... Re7? 34. b4 c4 35. Nc5 and white has suddenly even some winning chances with a4 pawn advance) 34. Qb5 Re7 (34... Rc7 35. Qe8+ Kb7 36. Re1 fxg5 37. Re6 Qd7 38. Qxg6 Nf6 39. Qf5 g4 40. Ne5 unclear) 35. a4 Kb7 36. b4 c4 37. Nc5+ Kc7 38. Na6+ Kc8 39. Rd1 Nf4 40. Qxc4+ Kb7 41. b5 Re2 42. Qb4 Qxb4+ 43. Nxb4 Rxh2 44. Nxd5 fxg5 45. c4 and black might have some prospects to win but the position needs to be carefully examined.


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X God Member Offline Education is a system of imposed ignorance.Chomsky Posts: 571 Joined: 10/04/03	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #120 - 08/27/05 at 19:34:07	Post Tools	Print Post
	@MNb: Maybe something like 16...e5 17.Rde1 O-O-O 18.a3 a5 19.Nc3 Nb6 20.dxe5 Bxe5 21.Qe3 was cause for concern. I think it is very risky to break with ...e5 before Black has castled, while the Bishop is on d2, clearing the way for Rde1 to exert influence on the e-file.

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X God Member Offline Education is a system of imposed ignorance.Chomsky Posts: 571 Joined: 10/04/03	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #119 - 08/27/05 at 19:15:19	Post Tools	Print Post
	@MNb: After 10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.Bd3 Be7 12.O-O O-O, isn't Black just going to be up another pawn with a superior position? (g5 and d4 are weak.)

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X God Member Offline Education is a system of imposed ignorance.Chomsky Posts: 571 Joined: 10/04/03	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #118 - 08/27/05 at 19:02:16	Post Tools	Print Post
	@MNb: I don't think this is as bad for Black as it looks. For example, 29...Rd8 30.Qe2 (This is probably the best move.) 30...Rd7 31.Nd3 Re7 32.Nc5+ Kc8. I think Black is OK. At first the knight on c5 looks terrible, but Black does not seem to have any clear weaknesses to target. So my impression is that White has a visually impressive knight on c5, but a position without a future, while Black can still improve. This really should be checked carefully. I think you have pinned down the critical continuation to this line of defense. White may be able cause difficulties with moves like Na6 and Qb6, although ...Rb7 defends for now. The problem with White's position is that he has to have his eyes constantly on d4 and f4. If the knight ever gets out of his corner or the pawn reaches d4 favourably, White's game could go downhill quickly. Addendum: Another possibility after 29...Rd8 30.Qe2, is 30...Qc5!?. For instance after 31.Qa6+ Kb8 32.Rd3 Qg1+ 33.Ka2 Rd6 Black seems to defend. When I first looked at this, I thought it was downright bad, but now I am not so sure. At least it should be considered.

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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10780 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #117 - 08/27/05 at 18:42:19	Post Tools	Print Post
	10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.Bd3 Be7 12.o-o with compensation. Pawn f7 is weak and Nh5 is out of play. Question: in the actual game, was there something against 16...e5 ?

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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X God Member Offline Education is a system of imposed ignorance.Chomsky Posts: 571 Joined: 10/04/03	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #116 - 08/27/05 at 18:37:35	Post Tools	Print Post
	On the 10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.Bd3 line: I actually think 10.Bd3 is stronger (despite the ...fxg6 resource) because after 10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.Bd3, I think 11...Be7! is a strong move. Note that after 10.Bd3, 10...Be7?? doesn't work due to 11.Bxg6, an advantage from holding back on the exchange. So I agree with Lev that 10.Bd3 Qxd4 11.Nxg6 fxg6 is a critical line for evaluation.

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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10780 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #115 - 08/27/05 at 18:24:52	Post Tools	Print Post
	Another intriguing question is, if Black wants the white pawn on h2 or on h3: 5...Bg4 6.h3 Bh5 7.g4 Bg6 8.Ne5 e6 9.Qf3 c6 (there are many, many deviations) 10.g5 Nh5 11.Be3 (11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Qxd4 13.Rf1 and Qe5+ is a disruptive check) Nd7 12.Nxg6 hxg6 and if both players follow the game, after 24...Qf4 (in the game 23...Qf4) Black is better, as there is no check on h3! I have not found deviations for White from move 10, using the pawn on h3 to his benefit. Does this mean, that 5...Bg4 is more precise than 5...Bf5 ? @X: 29...Rd8 30.Qe2 (another route to a6) b5 31.Qf2 and square c5 beckons to White's knight, while White has pressure against f7 too.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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X God Member Offline Education is a system of imposed ignorance.Chomsky Posts: 571 Joined: 10/04/03	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #114 - 08/27/05 at 18:21:02	Post Tools	Print Post
	I notice several people in defense of White's position are saying that Black must play ...Ra8; however, I don't think that is the way for Black to go. I think Black should play 29...Rd8 with the idea of ...Rd7, which serves as a countermeasure against c4, and repositions the rook to defend f7 from a more active position. If White insists on playing Qd3, I think Black should not be afraid of playing ...b5, which I don't think is as weakening as it appears, and in some instances allows Black to gain even more ground. With the rook on d7, it serves useful defensive and offensive functions. In some cases it can transfer to the e-file, and in some instances, it can be a useful defensive (or even offensive) piece on the queenside if the black king retreats. This is a bit of a rough sketch and I have looked at a few lines on my own to check this defensive scheme. I just think some people are overlooking some important defensive ideas for Black. Anyway, I am fairly confident of Markovich's handling of the game. I think he has done an excellent job so far.

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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10780 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #113 - 08/27/05 at 18:03:29	Post Tools	Print Post
	19.Ba2 can lead to interesting complications: a) 19...Rxd4 20.Rde1 a1) 20...Nc4 21.Bc3 Ne5 22.Qf2 looks good for White. a2) 20...Bxh2 is interesting: 21.Qf2 Be5 22.c3 Rxd2 23.Nxd2 Nd7 24.Ne4 Bc7 and Black can think of ...f5 again. a3) 20...Rdd8 21.Bxa5 Nd5 22.Bd2 Bxh2 23.c4 Qc7 24.cxd5 cxd5+ 25.Nc3 d4 26.Bxe6+ unclear. I think ArKheiN was right to exchange bishops. After 22.Bd2 Rd8 White cannot stop f7-f5. In the given position - after 29.Nb4 - I think White has just enough compensation for the pawn. Black has two problems: the passive knight on h5 and the hole on a6. After say Qe6 30.Qd3 Ra8 31.c4 Nf4 32.cxd5 cxd5 33.Qd4 Black's advantage - if there ever was any - has gone. Harder to meet is 29...Nf4 solving both problems. I am absolutely not sure, but it looks like Black must return his extra pawn somewhere - assuming White will play 30.c4 - in return for an enduring positional advantage. The question is, if it will be enough for a win. Markovich wrote on 26-7: "Play solid moves; eschew the second pawn." That is a strong argument to prefer 10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.Bd3. Black can reach safe equality though with Qxd4 12.Rf1 Qh4+ 13.Kd1 f5 14.gxf6 gxf6 15.Bxg6+ Kd8 returning the pawns. "perhaps they'll call 9...Nh5 the Morss Variation?" Ludwig Defense is more likely.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #112 - 08/27/05 at 17:53:43	Post Tools	Print Post
	When I say that it will be very difficult to win for Markovich, it's not only for the actual position. He has somes problems to solve actually, but I speak in long-term too, reaching an ending like Rook+King+pawns vs Rook+King+one pawn up can be a possibility, and is normally draw in the most of the time, or even Rook+Knight+King+pawns vs Rook+Knight+King+one pawn up. In every possible type of ending, I think I can manage for a draw. The quite vulnerability of Black's King can be used with a possible perpetual check in somes possibles lines if the Queens are still on the board, and White have enough activity to put pressures in Black's position, like the e and/or f-file the d-pawn could be also a target after c4. To summarie, I think White's actual activity dictate Black's next moves where the pawn down is not annoying for the moment and if I reach an ending where the pawn down will begin to be an important factor, when I analyse the type of possible endings that can arise now, I am confident about my (big?)drawing chances. But let's the future decide about who was right here.


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Bonsai God Member Offline Posts: 622 Joined: 03/13/04 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #111 - 08/27/05 at 17:02:42	Post Tools	Print Post
	The vaguely weak f7 pawn and the also vaguely loose black king seem to be all the compensation for the lost pawn that remains for white. While I don't think anyone would prefer to be white here, it is not quite clear how black can make any progress e.g. immediately trying to improve the pawn structure by 29...f5?! 30.gxf6 e.P. gxf6? would go badly wrong due to 31.Qd3!. Basically this moment seems like one where black needs to define his plans and I hope that some careful analysis by Markovich will turn up a way of playing for a win with black.


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X God Member Offline Education is a system of imposed ignorance.Chomsky Posts: 571 Joined: 10/04/03	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #110 - 08/27/05 at 16:16:14	Post Tools	Print Post
	I think BDG players tend to underestimate the resilience of Black's postion in these situations. I think Markovich is being conservative by saying that position is =/+. Let me qualify this statement. Once the play has transformed from a concrete tactical stage to an amorphous maneuvering game, BDG players tend to consistently overestimate the power of short-term threats versus long-term assets when the character of the game has significantly changed. The triumph of Markovich's play is that the concrete stage seemed virtually non-existent! While I was participating in the Ziegler Defense thread, I analyzed a number of lines and, through a period of trial and error, I began to notice some patterns. I experimented with a move that had not been considered in the Alchemy line, but as it turned out, the move was seriously flawed as Black was too behind in development for the idea to be executed properly. Then by chance, I took a glimpse at the most principled continuation and found an interesting and somewhat implausible move, that sacrificed the queen for an interesting material imbalance and the annilhilation of White's center. Strangely, the position had shifted to very sharp tactics to a maneuvering positional game, where Black was under slight pressure, but had most of the long-term strengths. After some further independent investigation, I came to the conclusion that Black was better, as his weaknesses were defensible, while the resources for White's apparent attack were easily exhausted as he had no central leverage after losing his pawn center. Curiously, this position had been assessed by +/- by the BDG supporters by somewhat unconvincing analysis. Around the time, I had other things outside of chess pressing, and I felt that I reached a good stopping point for myself. Anyway, I felt like I had found a weakness in the optimism of BDG adherents when the position has transformed outside of their territory. In both instances (Markovich's game and the position I analyzed), White's central pawn support had been annilhilated and White was reduced to making short-term threats to counter Black's long-term advantages. Many BDG players seem to think in such positions, White's temporary "attack" at least compensates for a pawn, since Black's position looks awkward at first. I think this optimism causes them to overlook the resources facilitated by the long-term advantages of Black's position.

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #109 - 08/27/05 at 07:58:57	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Qd6 27.Qe3 b6 28.Na6+ Kb7 29.Nb4 It will very difficult for Black to prove that the pawn up is sufficient to win.


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Losetowin Full Member Offline The caveman Posts: 104 Location: oslo Joined: 12/13/03	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #108 - 08/27/05 at 07:38:40	Post Tools	Print Post
	After 29 Nb4 white get an equal postion by threatening Qd3-a6, forcing Rook to a8 and let it stand rather passively and then play rf1 and or c4 in some positions


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #107 - 08/27/05 at 07:07:43	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Qd6 27.Qe3 b6 28.Na6+ Kb7

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #106 - 08/26/05 at 18:00:42	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Qd6 27.Qe3 b6 28.Na6+ 28.Na4!? Rb8! was equally playable, but I think 28.Na6+ is the more accurate.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #105 - 08/26/05 at 09:42:05	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Unlike in game with GM Prie, white appears to have just enough compensation for the pawn in this position. I would asess it as equal I wouldn't call it equal, which pre-judges whether White can forestall an ending. Since White's playing for a draw, I would say =+.

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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #104 - 08/26/05 at 09:39:05	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Well, I thought my point is clear as a crystal. 5.Nxf3 Bf5 6.Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 this is the line you have wanted to play in our match, isn´t it? Now, after 8.Bg2 c6 9.h4 we are in the line above in my post. Sorry, without sight of the board, I did not recognize the transposition. So 9...Bb4 10. Bg5. I looked at this for some time. I agree that 10...Qa5 11. Bd2!, which according to my sources was played in LeLong-Ancival, Vichy 2000, is a good move. If Black offers repetition with 11...Qd8, White has 12. Qe2. Not so good for Black is 10...Qb6 11. 0-0 Nbd7 12. Na4. One critical path seems to be 10...Bxc3+ 11. bxc3 Qa5 12. 0-0 Nbd7 and now both 13. h5 Nxe5 14. dxe5 Qxe5 13. Bxf6 gxf6 and 13. Bxf6 Nxf6 14. h5 Be4 15. Bxe4 Nxe4 16. Rxf7 (16. Qe1 f6) 16...Qxc3 17. Rf3 (forced) produce complicated play. However I doubt that Black can claim any advantage. Black also has the very interesting 10...h6 11. Nxg6 fxg6, which would probably be my choice. For example, 12. Bxf6 Qxf6 looks good for Black, who did indeed win in Detko-Drtina, Hlohovec (Slovakia) 1996. 12. Be3 would seem to be a better try, after which I would play 12...Qc7 and be reasonably satisfied with my prospects in a position with mutual weaknesses. White at least must spend some time to recover his pawn. I would have to agree that White's prospects in these lines do seem to be better than after 8. Qf3. Here Black does not seem to have the luxury of calm, solid defense.

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Losetowin Full Member Offline The caveman Posts: 104 Location: oslo Joined: 12/13/03	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #103 - 08/26/05 at 08:42:19	Post Tools	Print Post
	Unlike in game with GM Prie, white appears to have just enough compensation for the pawn in this position. I would asess it as equal


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #102 - 08/26/05 at 06:56:42	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Qd6 27.Qe3 b6

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #101 - 08/26/05 at 06:47:59	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Qd6 27.Qe3


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #100 - 08/25/05 at 21:18:44	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Qd6 Both 26th moves were forced. I still have my surplus pawn.

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #99 - 08/25/05 at 12:49:20	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 26.Nc5 Quote: 24...cxd5 25. Qc3+ Qc7 26. Qb4 followed by Rd3 did not look very promising for Black. That's right. Only your move : 24..exd5 was good.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #98 - 08/25/05 at 10:55:34	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+ Kc7 24...cxd5 25. Qc3+ Qc7 26. Qb4 followed by Rd3 did not look very promising for Black. Here I like Black, but it may not be easy to win.

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #97 - 08/24/05 at 13:51:10	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Qh3+


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #96 - 08/23/05 at 21:35:45	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5 exd5

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #95 - 08/23/05 at 17:28:45	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: I'm not sure how to answer this, since I don't play 5...Bg4, but rather 5...Bf5. And if 6. Ne5 then 6...e6. But it has not independent signifiance after 1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Bg2 c6 9.h4 (transposition) Edit: I have said the same thing than Patrik but I have posted it just 1 min later.


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Sevenviolets Full Member Offline Posts: 176 Location: Brno Joined: 05/19/05 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #94 - 08/23/05 at 17:27:24	Post Tools	Print Post
	Well, I thought my point is clear as a crystal. 5.Nxf3 Bf5 6.Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 this is the line you have wanted to play in our match, isn´t it? Now, after 8.Bg2 c6 9.h4 we are in the line above in my post. And what do you think about it, Pablo?


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #93 - 08/23/05 at 15:03:45	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Hello. Right now I have been playing a correspondence game in this line at www.sachy.sk: 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3 d5 3. e4 dxe4 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bg4 6. h3 Bh5 7. g4 Bg6 8. Ne5 c6 (8..Nbd7 9.Qe2!) 9. Bg2 e6 10. h4 Bb4 11. Bg5 Qa5 12. Bd2* I think, it can put some light on the whole line. 12.0-0 was an alternative, after 12...Bxc3?! white is able to prove +/-, but better is 12..Nbd7! and black is better. 12.Bd2!? is an interesting alternative and I hope, white is better here. Also 10.0-0!? is an interesting alternative played by Jorge Quinnones vs Battalla 10..Bxc2 11.Qd2 with good attack. I´m very interested in Markovich comments whether he would play something like this above or whether he has some improvement prepared... ? I'm not sure how to answer this, since I don't play 5...Bg4, but rather 5...Bf5. And if 6. Ne5 then 6...e6.

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Sevenviolets Full Member Offline Posts: 176 Location: Brno Joined: 05/19/05 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #92 - 08/23/05 at 12:48:16	Post Tools	Print Post
	Hello. Right now I have been playing a correspondence game in this line at www.sachy.sk: 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3 d5 3. e4 dxe4 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bg4 6. h3 Bh5 7. g4 Bg6 8. Ne5 c6 (8..Nbd7 9.Qe2!) 9. Bg2 e6 10. h4 Bb4 11. Bg5 Qa5 12. Bd2* I think, it can put some light on the whole line. 12.0-0 was an alternative, after 12...Bxc3?! white is able to prove +/-, but better is 12..Nbd7! and black is better. 12.Bd2!? is an interesting alternative and I hope, white is better here. Also 10.0-0!? is an interesting alternative played by Jorge Quinnones vs Battalla 10..Bxc2 11.Qd2 with good attack. I´m very interested in Markovich comments whether he would play something like this above or whether he has some improvement prepared... ?


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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #91 - 08/23/05 at 07:50:02	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4 24.Bxd5


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #90 - 08/21/05 at 20:33:28	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 Qf4

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #89 - 08/21/05 at 15:55:27	Post Tools	Print Post
	Patrik : I did not understand very good why you say "9.Nh5 sucks" but about my drawing chance, I agree that when you play a gambit, it's not to fight for a draw. But the variation with Nh5 need more practice to see which move offer White the type of game they want. And now Iam practically convinced that 10.Nxg6 followed by 11.Bd3 could be the main move in the future. Not that 10.Be3 is bad, but it's harder to play for White than Black here. I have not made any real error, but surely somes microscopics errors and now it's hard to assess if my compensation is sufficient, and I don't like my position that much now(I never liked the too closed position reached somes moves ago), and it's because I am objective that I say that I am playing for a draw now. And for a supposed unsound or even a refuted gambit, with not the best moves played, a draw is not a so bad result And when you say that 8.Qf3 is refuted just because 10..Nh5 seems good is exagerated. Even if my move 10.Be3 is not very promising against Markovich's defense, it might be playable with somes improvements. 10.Nxg6 and 11.Bd3 is definitively the best move in the BDG spirit, that I will use for sure when I will face 10..Nh5 again. If 10.Be3 and 10.Nxg6/11.Bd3 is losing, then you can say that 8.Qf3 is refuted due to 10..Nh5! but the future with more practice will tell us what is the truth. If your "ED theory" is true (Personnaly, I don't really believe that White should always have +/- even if Black play the best moves) and if the BDG=ED theory (why should it be better than another normal opening?), then, a draw is a bad result for White in the BDG. But let's come in the reality, things are not that easy. With the best defense, Black have equality in every major defense against the BDG, and most of players believe that BDG is bad, so, I won't feel sad with a 1/2 result with a pawn down, but I agree that in this game I never reached the type of position that the BDG player wanted for, but I wasn't playing for a draw either. Wathewer will be the result, I still think that 10.Be3 is playable, but no more. Let's look at 10.Nxg6/11.Bd3 in the future. PS: sorry if my English is a little weird to read, but can't explain my ideas as good as in French because I am still learning that language at school.


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Sevenviolets Full Member Offline Posts: 176 Location: Brno Joined: 05/19/05 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #88 - 08/21/05 at 14:55:38	Post Tools	Print Post
	Well, actually, a statement like "I believe in drawing chances" is not a kind of statement BDG-eers should tell his opponent. Better "I´ll crush you" and staff like that. This Nh5! variation sucks, whatever gambit or not gambit-like move white is going to play. Draw, no more. Statements like Nh5 =/+ sucks (actually I like term "it sucks", it is very often used in my favourite cartoon Beavis and Butthead, psychotic comedy, but I like pronunciation). This Qf3 is refuted. Morss Variation, Knight´s Quest to Glory (KQG). gg.


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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #87 - 08/21/05 at 13:45:11	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 23.Kb1 I had to avoid the queen exchange. Enough play for the pawn or not, I believe the game will still be interesting. I believe in my drawing chances.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #86 - 08/21/05 at 13:01:18	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 Qxc7 I expected 22. Bd2, avoiding further simplification. Even now, White still has a little play left; we'll see if it's enough for him to draw.

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #85 - 08/20/05 at 21:59:46	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 22.Bxc7 I am quite happy to exchange this very important bishop, but 22.Bd2 was equally playable, with the major idea to play c4/Bb4 but Black are not without counterplay to stay better.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #84 - 08/20/05 at 16:22:01	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1 Nd5 White still has some compensation for his pawn, just not a full pawn's worth, I opine.

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #83 - 08/19/05 at 21:33:57	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Sorry, I guess I missed Lev's point. Still, there is 11...fxg6 which, according to Sawyer, is the better move. Like I said in my previous post and somes times ago, 10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.Bd3 Qxd4 is an improvement to 10.Bd3 Qxd4 11.Nxg6 because fxg6 is no longer available. Quote: Here I'm just plodding along, playing simple moves. I thought you might try 20. Rde1, when I was considering 20...R4d8. Yeah, 20.Rde1 was a really interesting alternative, but Black can try 20..a4!? 21.Ba2 Nd5!? 22.c3 Rxd2! where the sharp play might favour Black here. If I would have played 19.Ba2 instead of 19.Bb3, after 19..Rxd4 20.Rde1, 20..a4 idea would not have worked here, but I was not sure that the bishop would have been better on a2 or on b3 but globaly I prefered it on b3. But I am not too unhappy with my last moves because it's not sure that other moves were better for me. I really think that a draw is still possible, because playing for a win here seems practically impossible now. But that doesn't mean that I will play for a draw either, but if I can take it, I will do it 1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ 21.Rxd1


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Gambit God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing .com! Posts: 1397 Location: Newark Joined: 07/26/05 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #82 - 08/19/05 at 21:27:53	Post Tools	Print Post
	The reason no one plays 11...fg6 is because the e-pawn is isolated. In the few games I have (without ...Nh5) , White focused on the e-pawn, and got adequate compensation. I have found many improvements over Sawyer's analyses/games -- all without using a computer!!


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #81 - 08/19/05 at 19:54:04	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5 Rxd1+ Sorry, I guess I missed Lev's point. Still, there is 11...fxg6 which, according to Sawyer, is the better move. Here I'm just plodding along, playing simple moves. I thought you might try 20. Rde1, when I was considering 20...R4d8.

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #80 - 08/19/05 at 15:16:39	Post Tools	Print Post
	I agree with you Markovich with your analysis after 10.Bd3 Qxd4 11.Bxg6 but Lev proposed 11.Nxg6 instead. Here Black have the option to play hxg6 or fxg6, and for this reason I prefer to play 10.Nxg6 where only hxg6 is good here, and after 11.Bd3 Qxd4 White have avoided fxg6. 1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4 20.Bxa5


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #79 - 08/19/05 at 14:35:12	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 Rxd4

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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #78 - 08/19/05 at 14:20:25	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: I mentioned earlier that 10 Be3 is too passive. My earlier proposal was to gambit the d4-pawn (...Qxd4) for open lines and an enduring attack. If you re-check the thread, you will see what I sub-variation I spoke of.: 10 Bd3!? Qxd4?! . Yes, it is risky, but then as Steinitz once said, "Chess is not for those of weak spirit!" Well Lev, perhaps you have forgotten my analysis of 10. Bd3, which I believe I posted in the Schoupal-Bonsai thread. Let's see if I can recall it. 10. Bd3 Qxd4 11. Bxg6 Qxe4+ 12. Be4 Bb4 13. O-O f5 14. Qxh5+ g6 15. Qf3 (15. Qe2 is the same) Bxc3 16. bxc3 (16. Qxc3 Qxc3 17. bxc3 fxe4 is the same) 16...Qxe4 17. Qxe4 fxe4. Now White can regain his pawns with 18. Rf6 Nd7 19. Rxe6+ Kf7 20. Rxe4, but after 20...Rhe8, the ending is very much in Black's favor, I opine. Would you care to offer something in contradiction to that? And by the way, since BDG players like to name lines after people, perhaps they'll call 9...Nh5 the Morss Variation?

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #77 - 08/18/05 at 22:56:33	Post Tools	Print Post
	Yes Lev, I know, I had already responded to you last time, and if yourself reread the message where I played 10.Be3, you will see that I wanted to play 10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.Bd3 in a separate game but for somes reasons, Markovich declined the offer. My own theory after 9..Nh5(!) is growing up now, this game is a good experience to me to compare White chance between Be3 and my actual analysis on Bd3. And apparently, if you check chesslive database you will notice that the first 14 moves have been played by somes players, like Tim Sawyer himself where he played 15.Rdf1 but lost quite badly. My move 15.Rhf1!? is a novelty that is a little improvement over 15.Rdf1 I think. But there is too little practice to judge clearly 10.Be3, but I agree that this is not active enough and doesn't lead to typical BDG middle game that we research. But next time I will try 10.Nxg6 and 11.Bd3 for sure!


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Gambit God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing .com! Posts: 1397 Location: Newark Joined: 07/26/05 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #76 - 08/18/05 at 22:41:26	Post Tools	Print Post
	I mentioned earlier that 10 Be3 is too passive. My earlier proposal was to gambit the d4-pawn (...Qxd4) for open lines and an enduring attack. If you re-check the thread, you will see what I sub-variation I spoke of.: 10 Bd3!? Qxd4?! . Yes, it is risky, but then as Steinitz once said, "Chess is not for those of weak spirit!"


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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #75 - 08/18/05 at 19:29:36	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: But I think the BDG is good for a player's chess education up to about the 2000 level. After that, and assuming they had a good grasp of how to play in open positions, I would sugest they turn their attention to deeper ideas than simply gambit play. Curiously Iam just doing the contrary. I began "serious chess" at 15 y old with a rating under 1500, reached 2000 ELO when I was 17 years old, with classical openings with Black and White, and now, after a pause of somes years in chess, I discovered the BDG last year where I began to analyse it by curiosity, and now my interest for it is just growing up and my interest in chess too because I have more fun than before. If I see that the BDG give me bad results on tournaments, I will just use it on blitz and CC like I am doing actually. 1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 19.Bb3 18..Nb6 was just the best move. I played Bc4 because it was the only real way to prevent both liberating moves:e5 and/or f5 for a while, but now, Nb6 gain a tempo to switch in another good plan. When I look at the position, Iam practically sure now that my first idea : 10.Nxg6 followed by 11.Bd3 is the type of position that the BDG player research. Even if I manage to draw now(I can't hope for more already because I don't like my position that much here)I think it's the first and the last time I will play 10.Be3 against 9..Nh5 because the position is too closed, and Black have a solid play and a logical plan. But even after 10. Be3 it should be possible to improve the White moves a bit but that's not an easy task. But here I speak about a possible revenge in the future, but actually, I will continue to play my best until the end of the game


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #74 - 08/17/05 at 21:20:53	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4 Nb6 White's move restricts Black's kingside pawn majority, stopping any immediate ideas of ...f5 or ...e5. Black continues straightforwardly, maneuvering and looking for simplification. If Black can win the d-pawn in exchange for the a-pawn, this will offer hope of trading down the rooks. The main alternative was 18...Kb8, but it is not so obvious that the marginal increment in king security is worth the tempo.

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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #73 - 08/17/05 at 21:10:27	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Of course I am not Patrik Schoupal, he is surely stronger than me, and I know he would have played the second main line : 8.Bg2 and for this reason, I wanted to defend the other main line 8.Qf3 where I believe White are OK. 9..Nh5 (!) is interesting and critical for the BDG theory, but I imagine that BDG expert : Peter Leisebein have already his own theory against 9..Nh5 More practice is needed to know which of 10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.Be3 (transposing on our game after 11..Nd7) and 10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.Bd3!?(my preparation if 11.Be3 is not good enough)give the better chance to White. I am still a new player in the "BDG world" with about 1 year of practice and studying now, and played my first CC games this year too. With my age, I think I could be Markovich's studend, and I know he have a good experience in CC game. But I really want to be the "future" of this gambit, the next generation of BDG expert after Leisebein in somes years, to continue his great work. Just let's hope that the BDG will resist in the future or I will have to switch on 1.e4 again I suspect you are too strong a player to be my student. But I think the BDG is good for a player's chess education up to about the 2000 level. After that, and assuming they had a good grasp of how to play in open positions, I would sugest they turn their attention to deeper ideas than simply gambit play. Truly, don't waste you chess life on this gambit, or on gambit addiction in general.

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #72 - 08/17/05 at 19:14:40	Post Tools	Print Post
	Of course I am not Patrik Schoupal, he is surely stronger than me, and I know he would have played the second main line : 8.Bg2 and for this reason, I wanted to defend the other main line 8.Qf3 where I believe White are OK. 9..Nh5 (!) is interesting and critical for the BDG theory, but I imagine that BDG expert : Peter Leisebein have already his own theory against 9..Nh5 More practice is needed to know which of 10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.Be3 (transposing on our game after 11..Nd7) and 10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.Bd3!?(my preparation if 11.Be3 is not good enough)give the better chance to White. I am still a new player in the "BDG world" with about 1 year of practice and studying now, and played my first CC games this year too. With my age, I think I could be Markovich's studend, and I know he have a good experience in CC game. But I really want to be the "future" of this gambit, the next generation of BDG expert after Leisebein in somes years, to continue his great work. Just let's hope that the BDG will resist in the future or I will have to switch on 1.e4 again


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TopNotch God Member Offline I only look 1 move ahead, but its always the best Posts: 2211 Joined: 01/04/03 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #71 - 08/17/05 at 18:48:19	Post Tools	Print Post
	Will Markovich succeed where MNb failed miserably. Or will it be 2-0 Toppy Postscript: Maybe its time to take a poll.

	The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones
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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #70 - 08/11/05 at 22:59:31	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 18.Bc4


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #69 - 08/08/05 at 07:55:40	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: To Markovich : Iam ok to abort the game as advantagous for you if Iam going to be bad. But actually there is no reason to me to admit that Black have an advantage for the moment. Chess is first a fighting game, so, whatever is the result, I will not stop the fight until there is a real advantage. Chess is indeed a fighting game, so let's play on!

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #68 - 08/07/05 at 15:01:47	Post Tools	Print Post
	To Markovich : Iam ok to abort the game as advantagous for you if Iam going to be bad. But actually there is no reason to me to admit that Black have an advantage for the moment. Chess is first a fighting game, so, whatever is the result, I will not stop the fight until there is a real advantage. Quote: For whatever it's worth, Sawyer's BDG Keybook gives 10. Bd3 Qxd4 11. Nxg6 fxg6! as significantly better for Black. It's exactly what I say in my previous post, it's for that 10.Nxg6! hxg6 (fxg6 is bad here)and then 11.Fd3 is better in this move order.You can notice also that 10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.Be3 has not much independent signifiance compared to 10.Be3 like in our game.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #67 - 08/07/05 at 10:51:02	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: To Lev : I agree that Bd3 idea is interesting, and more in the spirit of the BDG, without fearing another loss of pawn, but it's also more risky. If you reread my post where I played 10.Be3, I wanted to play 10.Nxg6 (if 10.Bd3, Qxd4 11.Nxg6 fxg6!), and if he continues with hxg6, then 11.Bd3 at the same time in a separate game, because I think there is equality with the best play here too. But for somes reasons, Markovich didn't want, but said that he wanted to play agaist it after our actual game is finished. So I choose 10.Be3, where I think it's equal with best play. In our actual game, It's quite hard to find a logical plan but who said that the BDG was easy to play with White?, maybe I already have played a micro error somewhere, but I still think I can manage for equality with the best play. If I still didn't play my new move actually, it's because I am comparing different lines after my next move, and I can't spend hours everydays to analyse because I am in Switzerland actually, with my family, but don't worry, I will play my move soon. Since this is about the seach for BDG truth, anytime you are willing to concede that Black is better, I will be happy to leave off play of this line and take up another variation. I am not terribly interested in battling here all the way to the ending, though I will if necessary.

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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #66 - 08/07/05 at 10:29:57	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: All right, everyone. I have been sitting on the sidelines, watching things develop. Right now my opinion is that White has to fight just to maintain equality in the given position after 17 moves. ArKheiN misplayed the opening. Here is my evaluation: Instead of 10 Be3?! , which gives Black time to consolidate, White should play 10 Bd3 !? . Now if 10...Qd4 11 Nxg6 hg6 12 Rf1 Qd7 13 Be3 Bb4 14 000! keeps White's chances alive. In my line, even 13 Ne4! is good. White has a lot of pressure on the King-side and better development. Now, I ask why not try 5...Bf5 6 Bc4 ? That is a matter of taste. However, it seems to me that 6 Bc4 might put more pressure on f7, and even prevent ...Nh5 Just my own two cents' worth. For whatever it's worth, Sawyer's BDG Keybook gives 10. Bd3 Qxd4 11. Nxg6 fxg6! as significantly better for Black.

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #65 - 08/07/05 at 05:14:25	Post Tools	Print Post
	To Lev : I agree that Bd3 idea is interesting, and more in the spirit of the BDG, without fearing another loss of pawn, but it's also more risky. If you reread my post where I played 10.Be3, I wanted to play 10.Nxg6 (if 10.Bd3, Qxd4 11.Nxg6 fxg6!), and if he continues with hxg6, then 11.Bd3 at the same time in a separate game, because I think there is equality with the best play here too. But for somes reasons, Markovich didn't want, but said that he wanted to play agaist it after our actual game is finished. So I choose 10.Be3, where I think it's equal with best play. In our actual game, It's quite hard to find a logical plan but who said that the BDG was easy to play with White?, maybe I already have played a micro error somewhere, but I still think I can manage for equality with the best play. If I still didn't play my new move actually, it's because I am comparing different lines after my next move, and I can't spend hours everydays to analyse because I am in Switzerland actually, with my family, but don't worry, I will play my move soon.


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Gambit God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing .com! Posts: 1397 Location: Newark Joined: 07/26/05 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #64 - 08/07/05 at 00:23:41	Post Tools	Print Post
	All right, everyone. I have been sitting on the sidelines, watching things develop. Right now my opinion is that White has to fight just to maintain equality in the given position after 17 moves. ArKheiN misplayed the opening. Here is my evaluation: Instead of 10 Be3?! , which gives Black time to consolidate, White should play 10 Bd3 !? . Now if 10...Qd4 11 Nxg6 hg6 12 Rf1 Qd7 13 Be3 Bb4 14 000! keeps White's chances alive. In my line, even 13 Ne4! is good. White has a lot of pressure on the King-side and better development. Now, I ask why not try 5...Bf5 6 Bc4 ? That is a matter of taste. However, it seems to me that 6 Bc4 might put more pressure on f7, and even prevent ...Nh5 Just my own two cents' worth.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #63 - 07/31/05 at 17:21:46	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Seeing how ArkheiN's idea of 16.Bd2,17.a3 with the idea of Bb4 (I think) was fairly easily repulsed by ...a5 (which doesn't seem to be all that weakening) perhaps White should have settled for something like 16.h4 0-0-0 17.Kb1!? getting ready for c4 and trying to make the ...c5 and ...e5 breaks less attractive. In all these lines, Black has an obvious source of counterplay in ...f7-f5 and, after the en passant exchange on f6, ...f5 and eventually ...e5. It's slow, but it's not nothing. Thus for example, 16. h4 0-0-0 17. Kb1, Black can consider 17...f5 18. gxf6 gxf6 intending ...f5.

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Glenn Snow God Member Offline Posts: 1720 Location: Franklin Joined: 09/27/03 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #62 - 07/30/05 at 20:08:34	Post Tools	Print Post
	Seeing how ArkheiN's idea of 16.Bd2,17.a3 with the idea of Bb4 (I think) was fairly easily repulsed by ...a5 (which doesn't seem to be all that weakening) perhaps White should have settled for something like 16.h4 0-0-0 17.Kb1!? getting ready for c4 and trying to make the ...c5 and ...e5 breaks less attractive.


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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #61 - 07/29/05 at 18:00:34	Post Tools	Print Post
	To Markovich : I think it could take a few days to me to find the best plan now. I have differents ideas but I can't decide for the moment which move I will choose.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #60 - 07/28/05 at 22:19:32	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3 a5 I shall be most interested to see where White will try to find his play now.

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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #59 - 07/28/05 at 21:48:26	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: "Hier stehe ich; ich kann nicht anders." This statement had as a consequence 150 years of religious wars in Europe - in Ulster even until a few years ago. I hope that history will not repeat! Well, as God, you should be able to tell us which side was in the right.

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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10780 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #58 - 07/28/05 at 21:01:01	Post Tools	Print Post
	"Hier stehe ich; ich kann nicht anders." This statement had as a consequence 150 years of religious wars in Europe - in Ulster even until a few years ago. I hope that history will not repeat!

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #57 - 07/28/05 at 16:44:22	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 17.a3


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #56 - 07/27/05 at 23:41:46	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2 0-0-0 I play the only move consistent with my idea of how the game is to be played. Hier stehe ich; ich kann nicht anders.

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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #55 - 07/27/05 at 15:26:54	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Oh and you have not to precise which of your rook will be on f8, only the h8 rook can go here I am sufficiently happy when the move I send is, in fact, the one I intend!

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #54 - 07/27/05 at 14:52:46	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rf8 16.Bd2


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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #53 - 07/26/05 at 22:51:11	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Lots of luck in chess, by the way, if your goal as White is "about equality." Well, Iam not a god to say that this is full equality here without having played a complete game after theses moves. It's for that I think it is equality without being 100% sure because Iam just an human thinking about a position without ever having played it. If I have played that move, I would know if it is complete equality or not. But please don't play too much with words too. Oh and you have not to precise which of your rook will be on f8, only the h8 rook can go here


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #52 - 07/26/05 at 20:32:18	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: No problem, I understand, take the time you want to think about your next move. And about 15.Rdf1, I agree that ..e5 could be the best reply like I said in my previous post. After 15.Rdf1 e5 16.Bc4 Nf4 I would play 17. Bxf4 exf4 18.Re1 0-0-0 19.c3 Nb6 20.Nc5 and you are still a pawn up but I have enough activity to have about equality. "About equality!" I won that game already, against a strong opponent, and I would be happy to play a further game with 15. Rdf1, if anyone would care to take White's side of it. But there is no time limit here, so perhaps further games had better be played on www.net-chess.com, where my handle is "cornstalk". I will take all comers who propose the BDG, and I will both provide links and report results here. Lots of luck in chess, by the way, if your goal as White is "about equality." My move: 1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1 Rhf8 The gods of chess said, "Play solid moves; eschew the second pawn."

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #51 - 07/26/05 at 14:07:23	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: P.S. ArKheiN, in CC, your "clock" runs while your opponent is on leave. That is why, I suppose, I expected you to produce a move sooner than this. Since you are now taking 10 days to produce your moves, I assume you will not complain if I do so, too. No problem, I understand, take the time you want to think about your next move. And about 15.Rdf1, I agree that ..e5 could be the best reply like I said in my previous post. After 15.Rdf1 e5 16.Bc4 Nf4 I would play 17. Bxf4 exf4 18.Re1 0-0-0 19.c3 Nb6 20.Nc5 and you are still a pawn up but I have enough activity to have about equality. It is sufficient in long-term is another question, that would have been a debate if I had choosed 15.Rdf1. My move : Rhf1!? is even harder to evaluate but I see some dangers in the a3-f8 diagonal/f-file for Black that will give me counterplay for my 1-2 pawn down. There is equaly somes idea on c4-d5 for White. I think this position is just equal at the moment.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #50 - 07/26/05 at 10:02:36	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Against openings like the BDG, I think a good strategy is to play solidly (not passively, but not too forcefully either), in order to give White the chance to overpress in order to maintain an active position. The real point is not that one hopes White will overpress (though it's nice if he does), but simply that one awaits whatever specifics emerge from White's play, and reacts as well as possible. Once White gambits his pawn, he does not necessarily need to overpress to obtain a difficult game.

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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #49 - 07/26/05 at 08:37:58	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Just a few observations on opening philosophy against risky gambits (that may not necessarily apply to this particular situation). In Bonsai's game against Sevenviolets, he chose very direct and forceful play to force at least equality. In my eyes, the problem with this strategy is that in order to nullify your opponents chances in such a forceful way, you also nullify you own chances to an extent. This reminds me of a comment of Korchnoi to a strong younger player after he drew against opponent with an inferior position. I think it went something like: "Why did you play so forcefully? You could have given him chances to make his own mistakes." Against openings like the BDG, I think a good strategy is to play solidly (not passively, but not too forcefully either), in order to give White the chance to overpress in order to maintain an active position. I think in such situations, this also gives Black a psychological edge. I think Markovich's approach follows this characterization of solid play against a gambit. I think this approach is very practical in an over the board situation (in longer time controls, not necessarily blitz). Leaving aside the question of my play in this game, I fully agree with the broad ideas that you express here. Take the pawn and then defend soundly, shifting your pieces around and looking for ways to simplify the position. ArKheiN plays a principled but rather risky move. Now taking the h-pawn will pretty well ensure a won ending, if only I can reach one; White will have to stake everything on some sort of attack. But Black's ending is probably won even without taking the h-pawn, and spending a tempo simply to win a second pawn is not always the best way to defend this kind of position. No, the best reason for taking the pawn is to conquer g6, thus contributing activity to my bishop and my rim-knight. White will perhaps use his extra tempo to strengthen his battery on the f-file or create one on the g1-a7 diagonal (which he would eventually like to open with d4-d5). Although I am not terribly impressed by White's activity even then (I can see only one plan, which is c2-c4, d4-d5), I will have to commune with the gods of chess for awhile to see what they would like me to do. In an earlier CC game, I faced 15. Rdf1 and did indeed play 15...e5!, which immediately activated my rim-knight. I haven't been able to find the full score of that game, but as I recall, it went 16. Bc4 Nf4 and Black was fine. Indeed, I think Black is =+ after 15...e5. If White wants his d-rook on f1 while avoiding this possibility, he could also have tried 13. 0-0-0 and if 13...Qe7, then 14. Rdf1, after which 14...e5? allows 15. d5. Of course, Black might consider 13...Qc7 instead of 13...Qe7. P.S. ArKheiN, in CC, your "clock" runs while your opponent is on leave. That is why, I suppose, I expected you to produce a move sooner than this. Since you are now taking 10 days to produce your moves, I assume you will not complain if I do so, too.
	« Last Edit: 07/26/05 at 09:49:22 by Markovich »
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X God Member Offline Education is a system of imposed ignorance.Chomsky Posts: 571 Joined: 10/04/03	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #48 - 07/25/05 at 21:01:56	Post Tools	Print Post
	Just a few observations on opening philosophy against risky gambits (that may not necessarily apply to this particular situation). In Bonsai's game against Sevenviolets, he chose very direct and forceful play to force at least equality. In my eyes, the problem with this strategy is that in order to nullify your opponents chances in such a forceful way, you also nullify you own chances to an extent. This reminds me of a comment of Korchnoi to a strong younger player after he drew against opponent with an inferior position. I think it went something like: "Why did you play so forcefully? You could have given him chances to make his own mistakes." Against openings like the BDG, I think a good strategy is to play solidly (not passively, but not too forcefully either), in order to give White the chance to overpress in order to maintain an active position. I think in such situations, this also gives Black a psychological edge. I think Markovich's approach follows this characterization of solid play against a gambit. I think this approach is very practical in an over the board situation (in longer time controls, not necessarily blitz).

	Power to the People!&&http://www.gravel2008.us/ http://www.nationalinitiative.us/&&Mike Gravel for President 2008
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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #47 - 07/25/05 at 13:28:05	Post Tools	Print Post
	Ok Markovich, I waited until your return to think a bit more about my next move and to post it for your return of vacation. 1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 15.Rhf1!? Iam still not sure which of the "solid" Rdf1 and the interesting, sharper but more risky 15.Rhf1 is the best. Rdf1 let the h2 pawn protected but the 2 rooks are less active than on d1-f1 , and the Rhf1 let the h2 pawn en-prise but White begins to be dynamic and I have prepared somes poisons moves depending or your response. But what I think is that both 15.Rhf1 and Rdf1 gives equality to White. I think that 15.Rdf1 e5!? would have been a good way to activate Black position that doesnt seems so good against 15.Rhf1, it was one of the reason of my choice and in the spirit of the opening, White have to take somes risks to win.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #46 - 07/16/05 at 11:12:51	Post Tools	Print Post
	I'll be away on a little trip. Back 7-26. Best to all.

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #45 - 07/13/05 at 10:52:01	Post Tools	Print Post
	It was hard to choose the best "move order"I was hesitating with 13.0-0-0 or even 13.Rf1 but Ne4 would be played for sure sooner or later, and I can now play c4 if needed.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #44 - 07/13/05 at 10:24:04	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 Bc7 14. O-O-O Qe7 It may be a quibble, but I think that 13. O-O-O would've been more precise. To me, it isn't obvious that the knight should go immediately to e4. The kibitzers have been curiously silent concerning the technical points of this game.

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #43 - 07/13/05 at 08:55:26	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 13.Ne4 And if 13..Bc7 then 14.0-0-0


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #42 - 07/11/05 at 18:01:55	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Not at the moment, I'll be going on a vacation soonish (at least by the standards of correspondence chess) and there's little point in taking up a game at the moment. But thanks for being willing to trust one of your positions to me . Actually, I myself will be going on a little trip starting July 16, this coming Saturday. I'll be gone for a several days. I would expect to be able to post again by Tuesday, July 26. So I guess that's nine days off.

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Bonsai God Member Offline Posts: 622 Joined: 03/13/04 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #41 - 07/11/05 at 16:10:38	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: If you have not found a taker for the Black side of 10. Nxg6 hxg6 11. Bd3, I will be happy to take up your challenge after this game. However I do urge Bonsai to do so immediately, so perhaps I will be able to take on Patrik and his 8. Bg2. Not at the moment, I'll be going on a vacation soonish (at least by the standards of correspondence chess) and there's little point in taking up a game at the moment. But thanks for being willing to trust one of your positions to me .


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #40 - 07/11/05 at 14:28:59	Post Tools	Print Post
	If you have not found a taker for the Black side of 10. Nxg6 hxg6 11. Bd3, I will be happy to take up your challenge after this game. However I do urge Bonsai to do so immediately, so perhaps I will be able to take on Patrik and his 8. Bg2. 1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3 Bd6 My move here is pretty easy. I want to be able to play ...Qe7, defending my f-pawn, as soon as White plays a rook to f1. Since he can do that right away, I need to take this opportunity to develop my remaining bishop. If White plays his knight to e4, my bishop will have a nice square on c7. I also spent some time looking at 12. O-O-O and 12. Be2. The latter particularly seems to have some point. Against the former, which entirely preserves White's options with his f1 bishop, I was considering 12...Qa5 with the possibility of ...Qf5 soon, or ...Bb4 in some cases. For the time being, I maintain my view that Black is better.

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #39 - 07/11/05 at 13:08:26	Post Tools	Print Post
	I really wanted to play 10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.Bd3 because I spent hours analysing it to know if it was about playable. So, I hope that you will play this line as Black after our actual game. 1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bd3


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #38 - 07/11/05 at 12:36:01	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: If you decline to play my 2 responses at same time in 2 separate games, I will play only 10.Be3 to "secure"equality where the 10.Bd3 is more a test to know if it is playable or not. 1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 Nd7 and if 11. Nxg6 then 11...hxg6 Sorry, while I was happy that Patrik was willing to play three, I really don't want to play even two games here at once. However if you like, I will be happy after this game to take the Black side of 10. Nxg6 hxg6 11. Bd3. Or perhaps Bonsai, whose game here is finished, would like to take you up on that!

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #37 - 07/11/05 at 12:12:03	Post Tools	Print Post
	Markovich said : Quote: But Patrik had three difficult games already before I found the time to defend the line you see being played here, so instead of playing him, I'm playing gambit fan Pablo Schmid ("ArKheiN"). But Patrik would not reprensent the 8.Qf3 but the 8.Bg2 where he thinks he can play for an advantage. I did not play that move because I don't know this move as good as 8.Qf3 and I let Patrik defend 8.Bg2 against you for another match. About our game, I found 2 big different way of play after 9..Nh5 The first is 10.Be3 (or Nxg6 followed by Be3 generally transpose in most variations) where this move is the most solid but maybe not the more active, but I'm practicaly sure that there is equality here in long-term. The second way : 10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.Bd3!? is more in the spirit of the BDG but it's more risky too, and I'm not totaly sure but I think I can manage for a draw with accurate play from both side, but I think this way is maybe less "sound" because I sacrifice another pawn, for more activity. I analysed hard to know if 10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.Bd3 was playable, and Im confident about playing for a draw here. It was too hard to choose 1 variation to defend here because both way are too different and it's for that I took somes days to analyses this critical choice, but next moves will be easier to find I think. So, I propose you to play the both variation at same time, and we can call it GAME A and GAME B. If you decline to play my 2 responses at same time in 2 separate games, I will play only 10.Be3 to "secure"equality where the 10.Bd3 is more a test to know if it is playable or not. GAME A 1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Be3 GAME B 1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 10.Nxg6 hxg6 Bd3


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Teyko Full Member Offline Gambits Dammit Posts: 247 Location: Scotland Joined: 10/01/03 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #36 - 07/11/05 at 10:56:03	Post Tools	Print Post
	To be honest Markovich, I have always kept tabs on the rest of the guys and the games that have developed. I have shared correspondence with Patrik and Arkein about both of their games and told them that I will be happy to share my databases, personal analysis and engines if need be. I patrik's game with MnB, he has played beautifully and I really have only wanted to ask questions about the positions and thematic ideas after the result. In your game against Arkein I plan on being much more involved as I believe there are two or more lines that test your convictions on Nh5, and I think it serves the critical advancement of BDG theory to win your position. As for my time, I was lecturing at SIUC from March to May and could not fully devote myself to chess, and I did not have a computer in my hotel room, which is why I probably did the work I was paid to do. At that time, we were still discussing the Zeigler variation and I think Patrik has set himself apart in regards to his Alchemy system. I think he has seriously advanced the realms of theory in the sense that Ng5 is a serious attempt at the full point in the c6 systems. Arkein seems to be just as industrious in his attempts to find the truth and support the Blackmar Diemar Gambit in all its greatness. And I while I believe that you can play the blackmar diemar gambit against anyone in the world and come out with at least a draw, I have recently seen the need to expand my chess knowledge to include a variety of systems. Namely the french and the sicilians as I want to play the Scotch. The amount of work is huge, so I figured let them play their games and only intervene if asked or if the positions demand it. When I first started these conversations a year ago, it was me against the world. No one believed the gambit was feasible and (you: Markovich) and (GM Eric Prie) were some of my harshest critics. I actually appreciate that as it forced me to dig deep and increase my playing strength: as you know computers don't understand the Blackmar Diemar Gambit without you feeding it the moves and analyzing your combinations yourself. This was the case in Erics game, as I would come up with my own variations and as a human really see an unclear position. Fritz and Shredder could not help me, so I was a little insecure about playing my own moves against a "GM". I am saying this to say I have always been involved and interested in the advance of BDG theory. And hopefully when Eric plays me in the Hubsch I will create another novelty worth my name.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #35 - 07/11/05 at 09:45:12	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: I hope I am not clogging up this interesting thread with pointless ramblings, but what started these series of games? Was there an argument over whether this line is playable? Or are just doing it for fun to advance theory (sounds like a good idea to me ). If so, it would be really nice to see some other games like this in other parts of the forum using other openings. We do seem to have a little BDG chess club, don't we? It is, however, all in the spirit of the Seach for Truth and not to see who can beat whom. It really started with debates here as to the worth of this gambit. On the one hand you have your gambit fans, on the other, your detractors (I'm one of the latter). So gambit fan Patrik Schoupal ("Sevenviolets") challenged the detractors to some games. Put or shut up, you might say. But Patrik had three difficult games already before I found the time to defend the line you see being played here, so instead of playing him, I'm playing gambit fan Pablo Schmid ("ArKheiN"). Tommy Curry ("teyko"), who seems to be one of those I-must-play-gambits-or-die-of-boredom people, has been a big BDG fan here but, due I assume to pressing demands on his time, for the time being just sort of lurks around.

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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10780 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #34 - 07/11/05 at 05:45:56	Post Tools	Print Post
	In my opinion the BDG might be renamed as the BDTG, so how could I forget? Thanks for your invitation to discuss the KID, but I have to reject for two reasons: 1. I do not play and have never played the KID with eiter colour. 2. My knowledge on this opening is very superficial. So in stead of my usual well thought nonsense, you would get ill-based nonsense. I have told you before, that you are free to ask questions and annotate before the end of the games. Concerning why Rf8 and not o-o, see the analysis of Markovich. I find it hard to believe indeed, that the manoeuvre Qd1-e1-e2 is not refuted.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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Teyko Full Member Offline Gambits Dammit Posts: 247 Location: Scotland Joined: 10/01/03 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #33 - 07/10/05 at 22:35:20	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: It all started with Teyko, who persevered that the BDG is playable on the highest level. awh, thanks MnB. You remembered. No but seriously I still think that it true. I have been following your game with Patrik and I am hoping that we can ask questions and annotate it after the result. I have really been wondering about the Qe1 and Qe2 manouver and why castling was such a worry for you. I also posted something in the King's Indian section for you, and was hoping that at some point GM Prie and I can take it to the matresses in the Hubsch counter gambit since he believes that it is a bust.


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10780 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #32 - 07/10/05 at 21:52:27	Post Tools	Print Post
	It all started with Teyko, who persevered that the BDG is playable on the highest level.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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Darthkrieger YaBB Newbies Offline I'm your Daddy. Posts: 22 Location: Missouri Joined: 07/06/05 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #31 - 07/10/05 at 17:11:12	Post Tools	Print Post
	I hope I am not clogging up this interesting thread with pointless ramblings, but what started these series of games? Was there an argument over whether this line is playable? Or are just doing it for fun to advance theory (sounds like a good idea to me ). If so, it would be really nice to see some other games like this in other parts of the forum using other openings.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #30 - 07/10/05 at 16:43:54	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: When I was analysis my next move after 1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 a serious question came in my mind. Isn't Nh5 even stronger after the very similar 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.f3 Bg4 6.h3 Bh5 7.g4 Bg6 8.Ne5 e6 9.Qf3 c6 9.g5 Nh5 ? The only difference is that the pawn is on h3 here and not on h2, sometimes in the similar positions it's better on h2 and sometimes it's better on h3. Here, it give a new hole in the black squares : g3 and the h3 pawn is even weaker than on h2. But Leisebein played this position a few times like this : 1.d4 Nf6 2.f3 d5 3.e4 dxe4 4.Nc3 exf3 5.Nf3 Bg4 6.h3 Bh5 7.g4 Bg6 8.Ne5 e6 9.Qf3 c6 10.g5 Nh5 11.Bd3 Qxd4 12.Nxg6 fxg6 13.Be3 Qh4+ 14.Kd2 Ng3 15.Rhg1 Bd6 16.Qg4 Qxg4 17.hxg4 O-O 18.Rg2 Nd7 19.Rag1 where the games finished with a draw. The good point for Black of this similar way of play with the pawn on h2 is that White couln't put the queen on g4 here but g3 isn't an hole here. Of course it's still an interesting question I think. And about our game, I will try to give my move tomorow. I am happy to see White's h-pawn on h2 and not h3 since if 10. Bd3 Qxd4 11. Nxg6 fxg6 12. Be3 Qh4+ 13. Kd2 Nd7, next 14. Qg4 is (as you point out) unplayable. White therefore can't discomfort Black's knight in this variation, which preserves its ambition of going to f4.

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #29 - 07/08/05 at 18:01:47	Post Tools	Print Post
	When I was analysis my next move after 1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 a serious question came in my mind. Isn't Nh5 even stronger after the very similar 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.f3 Bg4 6.h3 Bh5 7.g4 Bg6 8.Ne5 e6 9.Qf3 c6 9.g5 Nh5 ? The only difference is that the pawn is on h3 here and not on h2, sometimes in the similar positions it's better on h2 and sometimes it's better on h3. Here, it give a new hole in the black squares : g3 and the h3 pawn is even weaker than on h2. But Leisebein played this position a few times like this : 1.d4 Nf6 2.f3 d5 3.e4 dxe4 4.Nc3 exf3 5.Nf3 Bg4 6.h3 Bh5 7.g4 Bg6 8.Ne5 e6 9.Qf3 c6 10.g5 Nh5 11.Bd3 Qxd4 12.Nxg6 fxg6 13.Be3 Qh4+ 14.Kd2 Ng3 15.Rhg1 Bd6 16.Qg4 Qxg4 17.hxg4 O-O 18.Rg2 Nd7 19.Rag1 where the games finished with a draw. The good point for Black of this similar way of play with the pawn on h2 is that White couln't put the queen on g4 here but g3 isn't an hole here. Of course it's still an interesting question I think. And about our game, I will try to give my move tomorow.


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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #28 - 07/08/05 at 11:13:32	Post Tools	Print Post
	Thank you Jorge for your posted game, it illustre that my analysis about 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Bf5 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 Nf6 6.Ne5 e6 7.g4 Ne4 8.gxf5 Qh4+ 9.Ke2 Nc6 10.Nxc6 Nxc3+ 11.bxc3 Qe4+ 12.Kf2 Qxh1 13.Na5 is better for White. You are the welcome if you wanna contribute to the analysis


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JorgeQ YaBB Newbies Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 2 Location: Lima Joined: 07/08/05 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #27 - 07/08/05 at 09:59:50	Post Tools	Print Post
	Hi! I am Jorge Quiñones, maybe in the future i can post in a regular way, now i´m on exams period Now, i want to share a friendly corr game: Quiñones Borda,J - Gutierrez Medina,R [D00] 2002 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Bf5 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 Nf6 6.Ne5 e6 7.g4 Ne4 8.gxf5 Qh4+ 9.Ke2 Nc6 10.Nxc6 Nxc3+ 11.bxc3 Qe4+ 12.Kf2 Qxh1 13.Na5 0-0-0 14.fxe6 Rd5 15.Qg4 f5 16.Qh5 Bd6 17.Nc4 Bxh2 18.Qf3 Qxf3+ 19.Kxf3 h5 20.Bg5 h4 21.Ne3 Ra5 22.Bd3 g6 23.Rh1 Bg3 24.Bc4 Ra3 25.e7 1-0 Saludos


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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #26 - 07/07/05 at 20:56:52	Post Tools	Print Post
	Just to give some analysis about Black's other move than 9..Nh5 to show what is about playable for Black. A. 9..Nd5, 10.Bd3 Nd7 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.0-0 Qe7 13.Nxd5 cxd5 14.c4 White have the better chances to not say +/- with the most accurate play. B. 9..Bh5 I can play Qf2 or Qf4, I think I would choose Qf2 and now : 10..Ng4 11.Nxg4 Bxg4 12.Bd3 C. 9..Ng8 (a bit ugly at first sight but keep an attack to d4 ) and here : 10.Bd3 Qxd4 11.Nxg6 hxg6 12.Bf4 Bb4 13.0-0-0 Bxc3 14.Bxg6!! But 12..Bc5! is maybe the best continuation and can follow 13.Rf1 e5 14.Bg3 Qe3+ 15.Qxe3 Bxe3 16.Ne4 with about equality. D. 9..Nfd7 10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.Bd3 Be7 12.0-0(Rf1!?) and now 12..Rf8 or 12..0-0 are quite good for white, mostly after 12..0-0 where White will play h4 and have a very nice attack on the kingside. But it would take too much place to put my analysis on 12..Rf8 and 12..0-0 but I can say that 12..Rf8 can hope for equality. E. 9..Qxd4?! seems stupid at first sight but have some compensation after 10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.gxf6 Qh4+ 12.Qf2 gxf6 and is like +/= so, tha'ts not that bad for Black but I dont think too much people like to play in this way(but this move has been played a few times!) I will need 1-2 days more before deciding wich move to play against your 9..Nh5 where the next white's move is important for the BDG theory because this is about an unknown territory but I know with my new analysis that Black have no more than equality.


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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #25 - 07/07/05 at 11:05:16	Post Tools	Print Post
	To MNb: Quote: "After the sacrifices : 7..Ne4 8.gxf5 and white have surely an advantage, for example ..Qh4 9.Ke2 Qf2" 9...Nc6 is the modern way to play the Gunderam Counter Gambit. Ok, after some analysis I agree that 9..Nc6 is an improvement, but White are still +/= at least after 10.Nxc6 Nxc3 11.Bxc3 Qe4+ 12.Kf2 Qxh1 13.Na5 no?


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10780 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #24 - 07/06/05 at 21:08:17	Post Tools	Print Post
	"After the sacrifices : 7..Ne4 8.gxf5 and white have surely an advantage, for example ..Qh4 9.Ke2 Qf2" 9...Nc6 is the modern way to play the Gunderam Counter Gambit.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #23 - 07/06/05 at 19:12:37	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9. g5 Nh5 My choice was simpler than I thought. Such moves as 9...Qxd4 and 9...Bh5 unhinge Black's game and do not conform to my idea of how to play chess. 9...Nfd7 looks too retrograde. 9...Ng8 is absurd. I wanted mostly to consider the Alekhine-like 9...Nd5, which looks a little more active than 9...Nh5. The problem then is 10. Bd3 and Black can't play, as after 9...Nh5, 10...Qxd4. I leave it to ArKheiN and the other BDG afficionadoes to give the gory details of these lines. So now I have a rim-knight; big deal! It has potential activity via f4, and keeps a White bishop from going there. If White exchanges on g6, as he will probably have to do as soon as I play ...Nd7, my knight will be well protected and my h8 rook will be somewhat active. I have analyzed in Schoupal-Bonzai what I think should come of 10. Bd3. I expect 10. Be3, since it appears to be the only sound way for White to claim some compensation. It only remains to be seen what the Quinones notes (mentioned by ArKheiN) consist of. If I am to be outbooked, so be it! I am rather confident that I have just played the best move. Whether White has enough compensation now is what this game will decide. My present opinion is =+: White has about half a pawn's compensation for his pawn.

	The Great Oz has spoken!
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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #22 - 07/06/05 at 17:27:03	Post Tools	Print Post
	Now markovich has to choose between 9..Nd5 ; 9..Nfd7 ; 9..Bh5 ; 9..Nh5 ; 9..Ng8 and 9..Qxd4?! It would take a lot of place to put all my analysis against every Black's response but I will try to put somes analysis tomorow. This is quite a difficult path because the way of playing is very different in each move and it's hard to say wich line is really the best. Actually Im practicaly prepared to every Black's response but I have to choose the most accurate response to 9..Nh5!? but I have some ideas about the way of playing it for white here.


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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #21 - 07/06/05 at 14:45:18	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 Bf5 6.Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8. Qf3 Nd5 Quote: A) 9.Bb5+ c6 10.O-O Nf6 11.Be3 cxb5 12.Qxb7 Nbd7 13.Nxb5 Rc8 14.Nc6 Rxc6 15.Qxc6 Qb6 16.Qc8+ Qd8 17.Qc6= The point of 11.Be3 is effectly the possibility of playing as in the 11.Rf2 without the 14..Nc5!! possibility here, and if my evaluation of 11.Rf2 are right, 11.Be3 is the best move. And if 9.Bb5 is the right move, it appear with our analysis that White (or Black?) have no better here than draw with 11.Be3 cxb5 Anyone have an improvement for Black or White that Patrik and me have missed? Quote: B) 9. Bd3!? Qh4+ (9... Nc6 10. Bb5 Qh4+ 11.Kf1!? or Kd1 with transposition) 10.Kd1 Nc6 11. Bb5 (11.Nxd5 exd5 12. Re1 O-O-O 13. Bf5+ Kb8 14. Nxc6+ bxc6 15. Qb3+ Ka8 16. Qa4=) 11... O-O-O 12.Bxc6 bxc6 13.Nxc6 Rd6 14. Nxa7+ Kb8 15. Nab5 unclear. Shredder gives small advantage to black. It is strange as white is a pawn up. Fritz evaluates this as =. It needs to be checked in more depth. But I somehow feel it is not the right way. When I analysed 8..Nd5!? some month ago I was searching for an improvement for White before finding the Bb5+ and I did a deep analysis of every Whites best reponses other than Bb5+ and Black had -/+ or even -+ in the end, even in the variations that Patrik gave here. It's for that I think that 9.Bb5+ is practically forced. The problem is that I lost thoses analysis I wrote, so I have to do it again and it will take me hours again but I will do it if needed.


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Sevenviolets Full Member Offline Posts: 176 Location: Brno Joined: 05/19/05 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #20 - 07/06/05 at 13:47:28	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: 1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9.g5 8..c6 is logical, solid and the main move. But I have some times ago analysed 8..Nd5!?gaining time over c6 in some variations and add the possibility of Qh4 wich really deserve attention to me, if I was Black I would surely try it to play for a win wich is a bit unexplored. Here can follow 9.Bb5+(Practicaly forced to me, Black being very good against any other response, and Bb5+ is profiting that c6 has not been played to gain a tempo to castle with attack on f7)..c6 10.0-0 Nf6! and here, 2 choice for White : 11.Be3 or 11.Rf2 where this move was assessed like a good move after ..cxb5 12.Qxb7 Nbd7 13.Nxb5 Rc8 14.Nc6 Rxc6 15.Qxc6 etc with a good play for White but I found that 14..Nc5!!leading to a forceful and advantageous play for BLack after 15.Nxd8 Nxb7 16.Nxb6 Ne4 17.Re2 Rb8 18.Rxe4 Rxb7 19.Nc3 Bxe4 20.Nxe4 =/+ at minimal So 11.Be3 is maybe the best and need deep analysis. 8..Nbd7 is quite interesting after 9.Nxg6 hxg6 10.g5, but it's a rare move that I have not seriously analysed yet, but at first sight it doesnt'seem specialy promising for Black. 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 Bf5 6.Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8. Qf3 Nd5 A) 9.Bb5+ c6 10.O-O Nf6 11.Be3 cxb5 12.Qxb7 Nbd7 13.Nxb5 Rc8 14.Nc6 Rxc6 15.Qxc6 Qb6 16.Qc8+ Qd8 17.Qc6= B) 9. Bd3!? Qh4+ (9... Nc6 10. Bb5 Qh4+ 11.Kf1!? or Kd1 with transposition) 10.Kd1 Nc6 11. Bb5 (11.Nxd5 exd5 12. Re1 O-O-O 13. Bf5+ Kb8 14. Nxc6+ bxc6 15. Qb3+ Ka8 16. Qa4=) 11... O-O-O 12.Bxc6 bxc6 13.Nxc6 Rd6 14. Nxa7+ Kb8 15. Nab5 unclear. Shredder gives small advantage to black. It is strange as white is a pawn up. Fritz evaluates this as =. It needs to be checked in more depth. But I somehow feel it is not the right way.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #19 - 07/06/05 at 12:29:04	Post Tools	Print Post
	I think 9...Nh5 is best now, but it may be a few days before I reply because, as I said, I want to review Black's options here. Thanks to ArKheiN for sharing 8...Nd5!?

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #18 - 07/06/05 at 11:30:33	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9.g5 8..c6 is logical, solid and the main move. But I have some times ago analysed 8..Nd5!?gaining time over c6 in some variations and add the possibility of Qh4 wich really deserve attention to me, if I was Black I would surely try it to play for a win wich is a bit unexplored. Here can follow 9.Bb5+(Practicaly forced to me, Black being very good against any other response, and Bb5+ is profiting that c6 has not been played to gain a tempo to castle with attack on f7)..c6 10.0-0 Nf6! and here, 2 choice for White : 11.Be3 or 11.Rf2 where this move was assessed like a good move after ..cxb5 12.Qxb7 Nbd7 13.Nxb5 Rc8 14.Nc6 Rxc6 15.Qxc6 etc with a good play for White but I found that 14..Nc5!!leading to a forceful and advantageous play for BLack after 15.Nxd8 Nxb7 16.Nxb6 Ne4 17.Re2 Rb8 18.Rxe4 Rxb7 19.Nc3 Bxe4 20.Nxe4 =/+ at minimal So 11.Be3 is maybe the best and need deep analysis. 8..Nbd7 is quite interesting after 9.Nxg6 hxg6 10.g5, but it's a rare move that I have not seriously analysed yet, but at first sight it doesnt'seem specialy promising for Black.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #17 - 07/06/05 at 08:35:57	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 Some years ago, my chessfriend Wilson Gibbins and I analyzed 8...Nbd7 hoping to prove that Black was O.K.. But I am not entirely sure that he is (one of his main problems being the a4-e8 diagonal), and in any case, I would rather keep the extra pawn for the time being. I suppose you could say Black loses a tempo here, but ...c6 is not unconstructive, and 8. Qf3 is rather commital. Just thinking subjectively about the resulting position, my main worry is that powerful knight on e5. On the other hand I have high hopes of confronting it with ...Nbd7. For the longer term I also have to worry about the potential weakness of my central dark sqares. Provisionally, if 9. g5 I plan 9...Nh5, a move which I have advocated in earlier debates on this forum. I faced 9. g5 in a U.S. Absolute CC a few years ago and after some analysis, I concluded that 9...Nh5 was strongest. My analyses since then have not contradicted that conclusion. I played it and went on to win. However, I do not offer a conditional move because if 9. g5 is played, I will review Black's options.

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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #16 - 07/06/05 at 08:15:55	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 Still a classical way of playing from White and Black here. The main alternative is 8.Bg2 but I think it's just a question of taste, and I have more experience with 8.Qf3 but I know that Patrik Schoupal for example would surely play 8.Bg2 with a chance for an advantage, but I let it for a future Patrik-Markovich match maybe? Markovich has surely choosen most solid move. Just to give what I think about 7. Black's other response : After the sacrifices : 7..Ne4 8.gxf5 and white have surely an advantage, for example ..Qh4 9.Ke2 Qf2 10.Kd3 Nc5 11.Kc4 a6 12.a3!! 7..Nfd7 8.gxf5 Qh4 9.Ke2 Nxe5 10.dxe5 Qg4 11.Kd3 Qxf5 12.Kd2 Be7 13.Qe1 Nc6 14.Bd3 0-0-0 and is about unclear but I would not play it with Black. 7..Bxc2 8.Qxc2 Qxd4 9.Qe2 Bd6 10.Nf3! 7..Be4 is playable, but against 8.Nxe4 Nxe4 9.Qf3 (Qd3!? - P. Schoupal) there is no better than draw for Black.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #15 - 07/06/05 at 07:37:22	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: I am pretty sure Markovich will play the Nh5 variation. We have argued back and forth about this for months. I told him that I am pretty secure with saying white will draw, but he repeatedly has argued that it is a win for Black, so I hope he will warrant that claim in this match. I say that it is better for Black, not that it is necessarily a win.

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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #14 - 07/06/05 at 07:34:45	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 In the spirit of the Search for Truth, I would request that anyone wishing to contribute to White's or Black's cause do so with public analyses posted here. That will be much more informative, and a lot more fun! They say that in these days there are no more chess principles, only the specifics of given positions. Unfortunately my knowledge of chess is so limited that I almost always do rely on general principles! Here I prefer to play a simple move, rather than seek complications in a position where I am a pawn up with no weaknesses. Let the burden of proof remain with White. Also subjectively, 7...Be4 and 7...Ne4 just do not look like good chess to me. White compromises his kingside pawn structure with 7. g4, but he risks little since, with his pawn-minus, the ending is bad for him anyway. In the mean time, my bishop is active on g6. Some years ago I confronted Chuck Diebert over-the-board in this position and the game continued 8. g5? Ne4 9. Nxg6 Nxc3 10. bxc3 hxg6. With two sets of minor pieces exchanged, White had even less compensation than normal. I continued to play well, but I used up a fair amount of time and eventually, with about two minutes still showing on my old Jerger and just two moves to make the time control, my flag fell! I was two pawns up by then, but Diebert, who is an excellent tactician, had stirred up plenty of trouble.

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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10780 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #13 - 07/06/05 at 05:23:33	Post Tools	Print Post
	Teyko's argument: yes. My answer on his final remark: no. If it were yes, it would have been picked up a long time ago.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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Teyko Full Member Offline Gambits Dammit Posts: 247 Location: Scotland Joined: 10/01/03 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #12 - 07/06/05 at 00:22:41	Post Tools	Print Post
	Lev I have read your posts and given you the benefit of the doubt as far as your intentions in advancing the Blackmar Diemar Gambit, but this is ridiculous. For those of us who are actually trying to find the most correct moves and contribute to theory this is the most appropriate way to do so. Charles Diebert for example as been more than interested in my findings (he will know me as Tommy J. Curry) even though they were computer checked. Dude no one here is interested in the fact of whether or not you can win a blitz game; we are interested in knowing whether the Blackmar Diemar Gambit can be played at higher levels.


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Lev D. Zilbermints Guest	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #11 - 07/05/05 at 23:02:32	Post Tools	Print Post
	Good to see that ArKheiN has appeared again. He has not been answering my queries about the Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense of the BDG for awhile. And since I am on the subject, I suggest ArKheiN look up the game Leisebein-Fitzian, corr. 2000, which ended in a draw after 63 moves. The point is that ArKhein said that after 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6 6 Bg5 Be7 7 Bd3 Nc6 8 00 Nxd4 9 Kh1 c6 10 Nxd4 Qxd4 11 Qe1 Qc5 12 Qh4 h6 13 Ne4 Ne4 14 Be7 Qe7 15 Qxe4 f6 was -+ for Black. However, the game continued 16 Qd4 00 17 Rae1 e5 18 a3 g5 19 Qe3 Be6 20 Rd1 a6 21 Rde1 Rad8 22 b4 Rd6 23 Rf2 Rfd8 24 Ref1 Bc8 ... and DRAWN on move 63. That is first. Second, looks like I was smart not to play correspondence. From what I read here, people use computer databases these days. So let someone else, an experienced correspondence player, figure it all out. As I stated earlier, I do not trust correspondence chess these days, with its proliferation of computers databases and analyses. It will be interesting to see who wins the match.


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10780 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #10 - 07/05/05 at 21:51:25	Post Tools	Print Post
	One of the ideas of these games, Teyko, is to allow anyone kibitzing and send in his comments! I find it a pity, that you have not commented (yet?) my game against Patrik.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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Teyko Full Member Offline Gambits Dammit Posts: 247 Location: Scotland Joined: 10/01/03 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #9 - 07/05/05 at 21:05:33	Post Tools	Print Post
	I am pretty sure Markovich will play the Nh5 variation. We have argued back and forth about this for months. I told him that I am pretty secure with saying white will draw, but he repeatedly has argued that it is a win for Black, so I hope he will warrant that claim in this match.


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Teyko Full Member Offline Gambits Dammit Posts: 247 Location: Scotland Joined: 10/01/03 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #8 - 07/05/05 at 21:03:03	Post Tools	Print Post
	I am here Arkein. You have my theory and my computer if need be. I have been doing some work on my repetoire, but I have been reading the threads. Anytime you see me online and have a question just ask. Good luck in the match. And good job patrik, I enjoyed your games. I did not want to comment on the forum but I followed it very closely. Teyko


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Bonsai God Member Offline Posts: 622 Joined: 03/13/04 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #7 - 07/05/05 at 13:11:19	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: 6...c6 has been lauded in this forum, but I prefer to wait for White to make some commitment that would require me to advance my c-pawn. In the mean time, I will play 6...e6, a solid, constructive move. Looking at your comment in my game, you are definitely right that the variation I worried about (and because of which I chose 6...c6) when I was playing Patrick is harmless. I cannot really tell quite so clearly about the variation that Patrick said he meant to play instead, that looks quite possibly like some murky nearly-compensation. But on a matter of principle, I do like 6...e6 a lot and it's nice that it also gets an outing.


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Sevenviolets Full Member Offline Posts: 176 Location: Brno Joined: 05/19/05 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #6 - 07/05/05 at 12:55:27	Post Tools	Print Post
	For the time being I think about this line in following way: 5.Nxf3 Bf5 6.Ne5 e6 7.g4! a1a) 7...Bg6 8.Bg2 c6 9.h4 (transposes to 5...Bg4 var.) and I think this line is o.k. to go for an advantage. Of course, there is 8.Qf3 possibility. Recently my friend, BDG specialist Jorge Quinnones sent me his analysis of 8.Qf3 c6 9.g5 Nh5 continuation finding some new ways for white – new hopes. a1b) 7...Be4!? 8.Nxe4 Nxe4 9.Qd3!?N (9.Qf3?! is unclear but most probably about =). 8.Nxf7?! move is called Belka-Neumeyer-Abspiel but it is about = or =/+. Somewhere on the Internet you can find the correct continuation for black, it is something with Nd5 around move 13, I don´t remember it exactly. a1c) 7...Ne4?! 8.gxf5! There is one Leisebein´s game where a3 is played on move 10 or so. This game seems to be a model for white. a1d) 7...Bxc2?! 8.Qxc2! Qxd4 9.Qe2 Bd6 10.Nf3!+/- This is a bad possibility. a1e) 7...Nfd7!? I´m not sure about this one. Seems to be about equal. I´m interested which line Mark will choose. I bet on 7..Bg6 or maybe 7..Be4 but this one is to complicated and a little bit dubious.


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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #5 - 07/05/05 at 12:25:21	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 For the moment, nothing new, theses moves has been the beginning of the main variation of the Tartakower-Gunderam variation.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #4 - 07/05/05 at 11:58:22	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Hello Markovich aka Mark Morss, Iam ArKheiN aka Pablo schmid. The match begins like this : 1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 And my response is the classical 6.Ne5 I wish you good luck and have fun in our game Greetings, Pablo and other chessfriends, from Columbus, Ohio. 1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 [I suggest we keep the game in bold.] 6...c6 has been lauded in this forum, but I prefer to wait for White to make some commitment that would require me to advance my c-pawn. In the mean time, I will play 6...e6, a solid, constructive move. While I am flattered by MnB's kind remarks, I don't think that the BDG loses; only that it confers a slight advantage upon Black. I will try my best to win, however.

	The Great Oz has spoken!
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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10780 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #3 - 07/05/05 at 10:39:30	Post Tools	Print Post
	I doubt very much, that Markovich will go for the countergambit 6.Ne5 e6 7.g4 Ne4!? Alas, alas. Though both Patrick and Prié disagree, I repeat my adimiration. It is no piece of cake to play against a strong and experienced corr. player like Markovich. So alas I have to predict the 0-1 result. Final question: will Teyko be seduced to get involved at last? There are too many BDG threads without him by now!

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #2 - 07/05/05 at 10:20:29	Post Tools	Print Post
	Thank you Sevenviolets, you surely will be helpful as a great partner !


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Sevenviolets Full Member Offline Posts: 176 Location: Brno Joined: 05/19/05 Gender:	Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match Reply #1 - 07/05/05 at 10:18:00	Post Tools	Print Post
	Finally I can be kibitzing... it is fun:) You have my full support, Pablo.


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ArKheiN God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 728 Location: Belgium Joined: 03/30/05	ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match 07/05/05 at 09:58:33	Post Tools	Print Post
	Hello Markovich aka Mark Morss, Iam ArKheiN aka Pablo schmid. The match begins like this : 1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Bf5 And my response is the classical 6.Ne5 I wish you good luck and have fun in our game


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