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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Sämisch 6.Be3 c5 (11.Bf2!) (Read 24271 times)
Teyko
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Re: Sämisch 6.Be3 c5 (11.Bf2!)
Reply #18 - 08/13/05 at 19:44:35
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Its cool man. I like doing this stuff its fun. I did not take it personally. 

Thanks for the congrats anyway.
  
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Milkman
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Re: Sämisch 6.Be3 c5 (11.Bf2!)
Reply #17 - 08/13/05 at 19:15:09
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oh, forgot to include that one Wink just seemed like that was ages ago! sorry...
  
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Teyko
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Re: Sämisch 6.Be3 c5 (11.Bf2!)
Reply #16 - 08/13/05 at 18:46:29
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Two TN's? Shocked Shocked I saw one in the Dragon forum, but where is the other one...?



Oh, the Qxe4 line in the 10.c5 variation of Classical King's Indian. The line was never played and skipped over by Mikalevski because it thought it was inadequate. Nxc5!! in that line is a TN unless someone else thought of it before.
  
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Milkman
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Re: Sämisch 6.Be3 c5 (11.Bf2!)
Reply #15 - 08/13/05 at 10:12:12
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Two TN's? Shocked Shocked I saw one in the Dragon forum, but where is the other one...?
  
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Teyko
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Re: Sämisch 6.Be3 c5 (11.Bf2!)
Reply #14 - 08/13/05 at 02:08:41
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Thanks,

I do what I can. It seems this is a good month for me two TN's and going strong!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Sämisch 6.Be3 c5 (11.Bf2!)
Reply #13 - 08/13/05 at 01:18:46
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Very interesting!  Nice research work Teyko.
  
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Teyko
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Re: Sämisch 6.Be3 c5 (11.Bf2!)
Reply #12 - 08/13/05 at 01:06:23
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Hey guys check out this game by Gallagher.


[Event "15th European Team Championship"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2005.08.07"]
[EventDate "2005.07.30"]
[Round "9.11"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[White "Frode Elsness"]
[Black "Joseph Gallagher"]
[ECO "E81"]
[WhiteElo "2440"]
[BlackElo "2544"]
[PlyCount "128"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f3 O-O 6. Be3 c5 7. dxc5 dxc5 8. Qxd8 Rxd8 9. Bxc5 Nc6 10. Nge2 Nd7 11. Bf2 Nde5 12. Nf4 b6 13. Nfd5 e6 14. Nc7 Rb8 15. Rd1 Rxd1+ 16. Kxd1 Rb7 17. Ne8 Bf8 18. Bh4 h6 19. f4 Ng4 20. Nf6+ Nxf6 21. Bxf6 Rd7+ 22. Kc1 Bc5 23. g3 Be3+ 24. Kb1 g5 25. fxg5 Bxg5 26. Bxg5 hxg5 27. Be2 Nd4 28. Bh5 Bb7 29. Rd1 Kg7 30. e5 Rd8 31. b3 a6 32. h3 Bg2 33. Bg4 Nc6 34. Rxd8 Nxd8 35. Na4 b5 36. cxb5 axb5 37. Nc5 Kf8 38. Be2 b4 39. Bb5 Bxh3 40. Na6
f5 41. exf6 Kf7 42. Nxb4 Kxf6 43. Nc6 Nb7 44. b4 Nd6 45. Bd3 e5 46. b5 Ke6 47. b6 Kd5 48. Nd8 Bc8 49. a4 Kd4 50. Kc2 e4 51. Be2 Ke3 52. Kd1 Kf2 53. a5 e3 54.
a6 Ne4 55. b7 Bxb7 56. axb7 Nc3+ 57. Kc2 Nxe2 58. Nc6 Nxg3 59. Nd4 Nf5 60. Nxf5 e2 61. b8=Q e1=Q 62. Qg3+ Kf1 63. Ne3+ Ke2 64. Qxg5 Qd2+ 1/2-1/2

  
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woofwoof
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Re: Sämisch 6.Be3 c5 (11.Bf2!)
Reply #11 - 08/04/05 at 12:23:56
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I too play the main line against the saemisch with (1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.f3 0-0 6.Be3) 6...e5 7.d5 Nh5 8.Qd2 f5.  But games against the saemish are too few & far in between.

Most of the time I get players exchanging their d pawn for my e pawn which spoils up all the fun coming from that thematic f5 in the classical main line.

I believe i saw somewhere in Gallagher's book starting out the KID in which he says something like "nobody plays the KID to play c5". Anyway..... the only times i employed c5 is against the 4 pawns attack or the Averbach.
  
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Re: Sämisch 6.Be3 c5 (11.Bf2!)
Reply #10 - 08/02/05 at 10:02:43
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I've always had a huge soft spot for the line (1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.f3 0-0 6.Be3) 6...e5 7.d5 Nh5 8.Qd2 Qh4† 9.g3 Nxg3!? 10.Qf2 Nxf1 11.Qxh4 Nxe3.  I blame Andy Martin, who did a very good sales job in an old King's Indian repertoire book which I followed slavishly until I picked up the Modern Benoni (which gets ...c5 in before it loses a pawn Smiley )

Before that, I played the "Sämisch Panno" (although as John Watson pointed out in the book that sold this line to me, it has no business being called that) 6...Nc6 with lots of beautiful possibilities (if you can get your hands on that old Watson book you will see what I mean), mostly involving dropping a knight in to d4 at the cost of a pawn and using open semi-open b- and e-files, and of course the KID bishop, to wreak havoc on White's position.

I think the queen sac is considered suspect now though, and the 6...Nc6 line is under a cloud too I think , so I guess objectively best, if indeed 6...c5 were to be 'busted', would be the traditional (i.e. without black chucking his queen onto the barbecue!) main lines with 6...e5
  
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Re: Sämisch 6.Be3 c5 (11.Bf2!)
Reply #9 - 08/02/05 at 09:07:40
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just out of curiousity: if 6. Be3 c5 is ever refuted by Fritz 20.0 or Hydra (unlikely from my point of view from the white side!, but it is possible), what is black's next best reply against the samisch? On the internet i get the panno most often, with the Nd4/c5/bc6 pawn sacrifice curiously the most common continuation after my 9. Nc1, but that pawn sac is already shown to be slightly suspect (see NIC yearbook 68 ), though many GMs still score well with it, and gallagher thinks its reasonable. Will the Samisch make another comeback 5-10 years from now? It seems to me Black is putting all his eggs in one basket in 6... c5.
  
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Re: Sämisch 6.Be3 c5 (11.Bf2!)
Reply #8 - 07/31/05 at 08:57:38
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How about  1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f3 O-O 6. Be3 c5 7. dxc5 dxc5 8.
Qxd8 Rxd8 9. Bxc5 Nc6 10. Nge2 Nd7 11. Bf2 Nde5 12. Nf4 Nb4 13. Rd1 Be6?
-14.Nxe6 fxe6 15. Rxd8+ Rxd8 16. Be2 Nbd3+ 17. Bxd3 Nxd3+ 18. Ke2 Nxf2 19. Kxf2 Rd2+
-14. b3 Nxc4 15. Nxe6 Bxc3+ 16. Ke2 Rxd1 17. Kxd1 Nb2+ 18. Kc1 fxe6

Any thoughts?
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re:  Sämisch 6.Be3 c5 (10.Bf2!)
Reply #7 - 07/31/05 at 08:05:47
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hmm, interesting... white moves his bishop to f2 so that it won't be hit if black, somewhere in the future, plays ...Nc4. however, 11...Na5 seems like a good reply!? Looks like black wins his pawn back as 12.b3? is met by 12...Nexd4! To me 12.Ncd5 seems like the only critical continuation, but after 12...Nexc4 13.Nxe7+ Kh8 black has good compensation for the pawn. Any thoughts on this??

I guess you mean 12 .. Na5 and 13 .. Nexc4?
Does look decent indeed, though I dislike the bishop on c8.
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Sämisch 6.Be3 c5 (11.Bf2!)
Reply #6 - 07/30/05 at 02:16:13
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As far as I know Ward has played 11.Bf2 yet, although I still don't have this book.  For Randy Bauer's review go to http://www.jeremysilman.com/book_reviews_rb/rb_controversial_samisch_KID.html
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Sämisch 6.Be3 c5 (11.Bf2!)
Reply #5 - 07/25/05 at 20:15:23
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Has Ward actually tested this Bf2 idea in practice yet?

Toppers  Grin
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Sämisch 6.Be3 c5 (11.Bf2!)
Reply #4 - 07/25/05 at 00:26:02
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I don't have Ward's book yet.  Black certainly appears to have decent practical chances in the 10...b6 varition but I would still like to see a convincing solution in the 10...Nd7 variation (it just seems so much more straightforward).  I didn't find Milkman's solution of 11...Na5 to be convincing but I'm not sure of White's best followup.  White has already won a game against this in the Chessbase database.
  
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