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Poll Question: Who was the WEAKEST Official World Chess Champion?
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Steinitz    
  17 (35.4%)
Lasker    
  1 (2.1%)
Alekhine    
  1 (2.1%)
Euwe    
  21 (43.8%)
Botvinnik    
  0 (0.0%)
Smyslov    
  1 (2.1%)
Tal    
  2 (4.2%)
Petrosian    
  3 (6.2%)
Spassky    
  2 (4.2%)
Karpov    
  0 (0.0%)




Total votes: 48
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Weakest Official World Champion (excluding FIDE KO (Read 32082 times)
Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Weakest Official World Champion (excluding FID
Reply #95 - 10/12/05 at 00:16:23
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Thanks Woofwoof! 

It's always great to add interesting new chess sites!
  
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woofwoof
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Re: Weakest Official World Champion (excluding FID
Reply #94 - 10/11/05 at 12:56:13
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While we are still on Euwe, there a nice write up on him for thoseinterested.:
http://www.worldchessnetwork.com/English/chessHistory/salute/kings/euwe.php

The webpage also features other interesting writeups and certain key games of the other champs as well.
  

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MNb
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Re: Weakest Official World Champion (excluding FID
Reply #93 - 09/29/05 at 22:15:11
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Versus Botvinnik:
Smyslov -5
Bronstein -2
Levenfisj -1
Keres -5
Tal 0
Petrosjan +2
Spassky -1

So what do you mean, Levenfisj was a stronger player than Smyslov and Keres?
OK, then Spielmann was stronger than Euwe (better results against both Capa and Alekhine).
Both statements are about equally ridiculous.
Call me dumb, but I don't get it.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Willempie
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Re: Weakest Official World Champion (excluding FID
Reply #92 - 09/29/05 at 02:50:14
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Quote:
In a similar way I don't get Willempie's point, when stating that Euwe had -2 against Alekhine. What does this prove?

Check the scores of the Russkies vs Botwinnik and you'll see my point.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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MNb
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Re: Weakest Official World Champion (excluding FID
Reply #91 - 09/28/05 at 22:17:37
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In a similar way I don't get Willempie's point, when stating that Euwe had -2 against Alekhine. What does this prove?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Weakest Official World Champion (excluding FID
Reply #90 - 09/28/05 at 22:12:01
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MNb said,

Quote:
Spielmann only had -1 against Alekhine (+2, -3) and an even score against Capablanca. What are your conclusions, Willempie?
Capa was not that indefeatable: Bad Kissingen 1928, Carlsbad 1929. Spielmann's wins costed Capa two tournament victories ...


I don't really get your point, MNb, except to bring Spielmann into the conversation again.
  
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MNb
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Re: Weakest Official World Champion (excluding FID
Reply #89 - 09/28/05 at 22:02:16
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Spielmann only had -1 against Alekhine (+2, -3) and an even score against Capablanca. What are your conclusions, Willempie?
Capa was not that indefeatable: Bad Kissingen 1928, Carlsbad 1929. Spielmann's wins costed Capa two tournament victories ...  Cheesy
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Willempie
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Re: Weakest Official World Champion (excluding FID
Reply #88 - 09/28/05 at 07:47:49
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To boot Euwe only had a minus one (iirc could be 2) score against Alekhine. That is including the disaster of 1937.
Smyslov doesnt have such a record against Botwinnik and neither does Tal. In fact all russians except Botwinnik and Tal have a negative score against Fischer and Tal's positive score is only due to one tournament which led to his Wch.
Personally I think that Tal escapes in all these types of polls because of his style. Smyslov gets away because of his low profile. Petrosjan gets away because he is seen as indefeatable (just as Capa). Spassky is less lucky due to his defeat against Fischer and Euwe is even more unlucky since he played against someone who was/is considered the best ever.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Weakest Official World Champion (excluding FID
Reply #87 - 09/27/05 at 18:20:15
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Micawber,

As you pointed out at the start of your eulogy for Euwe, it's still rather easy to vote for him.  Certainly he was one of the best chess players.  And clearly, he was one of the most respected GrandMasters at a time when GrandMaster was an extremely rare title.  

You didn't answer who you voted for.  Every World Champion on the list certainly deserved to be World Champion.  But somebody was the strongest world champion, and someone in this very elite field was the weakest.  Who do you think was the weakest?

(Btw:  It would have been doubly arrogant of Kasparov to claim he was one of his greatest predecessors because he can't have preceeded himself!  He's got plenty of others to say that he's the greatest World Champion ever.)
  
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micawber
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Re: Weakest Official World Champion (excluding FID
Reply #86 - 09/27/05 at 14:54:51
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Its rather easy to vote Euwe the weakest world-champion.
But remember that before 1946 he held a full time job.  The week after he won the world-championship he was back at his school as a math-teacher. Actually he has been world-champion twice. He also won the amateur-world-championship back somewhere in 192?. Smiley

In 1953 when he was no longer a young man he participated in the famous Zurich Tournament. In the first halve of this (30  round!) tournament he scored 7.5 /14 and won the brilliance-price twice. Replay his games against Geller and Najdorf and you will doubt if he really was so weak. More than that between 1930 and 1946 Botwinnik never won a single game against him.
Unfortunately the picture we have of him
is painted by Aljechins comments (who was not above
praising himself and demeaning his opponents) and by a rather repeated use in chess literature of his famous blunders and misadventures. His loss against Fischer for instance is widely quoted. But he played him 3 times and scored 1.5-1.5!.

In his book Fischer and his predecessors he mentions the five greatest world champions:
Lasker, Capablanca, Aljechin, Botwinnik and Fischer.
He claimed no place in chess history for himself.

I close with a quote from Bronstein:
"Euwe however is not easily flustered. Remember that in his lifetime he played more than seventy games with
Aljechin; the most feared attacking player of our time".







  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Weakest Official World Champion (excluding FID
Reply #85 - 09/16/05 at 21:59:56
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BTW: I just have to go on record one more time, thanks to Willempie et al:

Euwe's one of the coolest players of the Twentieth Century, and certainly one of the greatest gentlemen to have graced our sport.  I loved seeing him beat up on the youngsters in the first rounds of Zurich, and then seeing his greatness recognised by Kasparov in his Predecessors series.  I don't mean to diss him by saying he's the weakest world Champ of all time.  Rather, I give him credit for playing the return match knowing that he wasn't exactly the favorite in that two-horse race.  He did the altruistic thing and should be remembered for it!

(Willempie, will you ever forgive me for making this poll???  Sad )
  
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MNb
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Re: Weakest Official World Champion (excluding FID
Reply #84 - 09/14/05 at 22:27:40
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Don't forget Portisch. In the K-K 1990 match he was second of Karpov. When telephoning with arbiter Gijssen Portisch had to identify himself by singing in Hungarian.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Weakest Official World Champion (excluding FID
Reply #83 - 09/14/05 at 22:25:59
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Woofwoof,

Music and chess go hand-in-hand.  Philidor was a world class violinist, Bogolyubov was an operatic singer, and of course Smyslov was also a great singer.  his autobiography, V Poickakh Garmonii, translates to "In pursuit of Harmony." 

Of course there are many other talented artists and musicians who did well in chess and vice versa.  Psychologists theorize that the same skills required to learn music, math, and language are also used in chess.  Interestingly, the Chinese have an amazing per cent of people who are born with perfect tonal hearing (a very rare gift in the rest of the world), and are now becoming a world power in chess.  Will the next twenty years see a World chess Champion from China?
  
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woofwoof
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Re: Weakest Official World Champion (excluding FID
Reply #82 - 09/14/05 at 22:20:06
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Interesting bit of trivia found on the net: Smyslov is also singer. Shocked. Apparently he made a few recordings & his songs can still be heard on Russian radio !

So that makes 2 chess players with musical inclinations. The other being Taimanov who is also an accomplished pianist.
  

"I don't make mistakes. I make prophecies which immediately turn out to be wrong." - Murray Walker
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Weakest Official World Champion (excluding FID
Reply #81 - 09/02/05 at 21:22:08
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Wow,


The votes for (or depending on your point of view, against) Steinitz are suddenly skyrocketing!  What happened, did someone suddenly find out that Steinitz didn't really write all of Shakespeare's plays?  Oh wait.  Maybe they found out that Shakespeare didn't play all of Steinitz' games.  That's not it either.  hmm...
  
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