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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Controversial London System (Read 107922 times)
Michael Ayton
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Re: The Controversial London System
Reply #15 - 08/01/05 at 03:38:49
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Wittily put, alumbrado! However, while I think White could have a lot of fun after 3 ...de 4 d5, Willempie's 3 ...e6 looks offputtingly solid. Grrrr.

I strongly agree with tafl that White should keep flexible and not rule out c2--c4. Also after 2 ...c6 I seem to recall seeing some games where White played a quickish 0-0-0 exploiting the additional tempo Black would expend on ...c5.
  
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alumbrado
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Re: The Controversial London System
Reply #14 - 08/01/05 at 03:26:35
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I see that people's desire to toss pawns onto the barbecue on move 3 is nearly as strong here as in the BDG threads!

My interest is from the Black side after 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.Bf4 - ideally I would like to avoid the rather stale Queen's Indian positions that can arise but am struggling to find a sound alternative (other than playing ...d5 of course).  Any suggestions Undecided ?
  

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Willempie
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Re: The Controversial London System
Reply #13 - 08/01/05 at 00:21:41
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[quote author=Michael Ayton  link=1122821205/0#7 date=1122831576]What then do people think of tafl's 3 e4!? suggestion? -- I'm just trying to get the ball of controversy rolling. I see this floored even MNb's hero Spielmann ... But then the Exchange Caro line (from the BDG thread, which should really be here) downed Petrosian![/quote]
Just 3..e6 I'd think, looks like a weird french tarrasch ;)
  

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tafl
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Re: The Controversial London System
Reply #12 - 07/31/05 at 23:46:02
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TopNotch is right on. Play chess! 
But I still would like to add: Be flexible - play c4 if that looks like the right move, sacrifice a pawn if that seems promising or play a "system move" if that seems appropriate. 

As to the specifics:
- Against 2...c6, 3.Nf3 Qb6 4.Qc1, planning c4 should suffice for a small advantage. But 4.Nbd2!? Qxb2 5.e4 has been played by strong players.
- 2...Nf6 for good reasons is the main move. 3.e3 then probably is slightly better than 3.Nf3, e.g. 3...c5 4.c3 (4.dxc5, 4.Nc3 and 4.Nf3 Qb6 5.Nc3 are interesting too) 4...Qb6 5.Qb3 c4 6.Qc2 and now Black is not ready for 6...Bf5?? as 7.Qxf5 Qxb2? 8.Qc8 is mate.
  

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TopNotch
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Re: The Controversial London System
Reply #11 - 07/31/05 at 22:24:22
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Simply play chess.

The London is not about an Opening edge but  Middlegame understanding in a sound position.

I had to add in that 'Sound Position' bit in order to avoid Mnb trying to draw some kinda weird analogy with the BDG.
 
Top Grin
  

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MNb
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Re: The Controversial London System
Reply #10 - 07/31/05 at 20:31:19
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The problem remains, what to do if Black does NOT play 2...c5, but something like 2...c6 or 2...Nf6.
  

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Michael Ayton
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Re: The Controversial London System
Reply #9 - 07/31/05 at 20:08:12
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Yes, I certainly agree about the fresh air! The gambit seems a lot of fun too -- judging by Winants's games with it on ChessLive this could give opponents quite a scare ...
  
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TopNotch
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Re: The Controversial London System
Reply #8 - 07/31/05 at 19:58:05
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What then do people think of tafl's 3 e4!? suggestion? -- I'm just trying to get the ball of controversy rolling. I see this floored even MNb's hero Spielmann .


I think 3.e4 is a strong idea, not to mention the shock value of the move. Belgium GM Luc Winants plays this pawn sac a lot in blitz on ICC with good results, his handle is Goodluc.

At last a thread not as emotionally charged as the infamous BDG.

Like a breath of fresh air methinks. Cheesy 

Topalert  Grin
  

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Michael Ayton
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Re: The Controversial London System
Reply #7 - 07/31/05 at 17:39:36
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What then do people think of tafl's 3 e4!? suggestion? -- I'm just trying to get the ball of controversy rolling. I see this floored even MNb's hero Spielmann ... But then the Exchange Caro line (from the BDG thread, which should really be here) downed Petrosian!
  
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Willempie
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Re: The Controversial London System
Reply #6 - 07/31/05 at 17:21:13
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I wonder too, I dont see much Grin
  

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Re: The Controversial London System
Reply #5 - 07/31/05 at 15:32:21
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No, I'm missing something--I meant Nc6, but then put the knight on f6 in my head.  Sorry.  No end to the controversy, though!

I do wonder, though, what White can generate with a reverse Slav...

  

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Willempie
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Re: The Controversial London System
Reply #4 - 07/31/05 at 13:45:34
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Quote:


After 4 ... Bf5 5 Nb5, 5 ... Rc8 leaves the a7 pawn hanging.

How exactly is it hanging? There is still a black knight on c6, not to mention that black always has a Qa5+ up his sleeve. Or am I missing something very basic (wont be the first time)?
  

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Re: The Controversial London System
Reply #3 - 07/31/05 at 11:48:54
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What's the exact merit of Nb5? Imho black can just play 4 .. Bf5 and Rc8 if necessary. Even 4 .. cxd4 5 exd4 Bf5 is possible.


After 4 ... Bf5 5 Nb5, 5 ... Rc8 leaves the a7 pawn hanging.

I won't pretend to argue that this line is absolutely winning for White, but I think it's a little more interesting than the dullish equality normally associated with the London System...
  

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tafl
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Re: The Controversial London System
Reply #2 - 07/31/05 at 11:37:25
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4.Nc3 indeed is interesting. But I believe the standard 4.c3 objectively is a better try when 4...Qb6 5.Qb3 c4 6.Qc2 Bf5!? 7.Qxf5!? is at least as interesting as any BDG. 

But if you are looking for excitement, why not try 3.e4!? which is a reversed Albin's Counter Gambit?
  

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Willempie
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Re: The Controversial London System
Reply #1 - 07/31/05 at 10:07:24
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What's the exact merit of Nb5? Imho black can just play 4 .. Bf5 and Rc8 if necessary. Even 4 .. cxd4 5 exd4 Bf5 is possible.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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