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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.b4 !? (Read 17844 times)
Gambit
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Re: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.b4 !?
Reply #11 - 08/22/05 at 00:04:18
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You guys are killing me. 1.e4 d5 2.g4? is flat out ridiculous. Let's look at the position first before suggested crazy move. White has just left his e4 pawn hanging and weakened his kingside with one move! Hooray!


Hey, roastednuts,

Why don't you suggest a lineof analysis  to go along with your comments? After 1 e4 d5 2 g4, what will you play?  I suggest you play me on Internet Chess Club, at Game/30 or even Game/60 minutes, to test this line. How about it?

  My point in challenging you is very simple: I want to see you play against my gambit over the board instead of making general comments without any analyses!
  
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Re: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.b4 !?
Reply #10 - 08/21/05 at 11:24:40
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Wing Gambit ideas against the Scandanavian crop up sporadically in various lines, sadly though the 'Database Age' has not been kind to the Mieses.

I think there's also 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.d4 Nf6 5.Nf3 Bg4 6.h3 Bh5 7.g4 Bg6 8.b4, there's hardly anything to be found about this line, but I believe there was a NiC article that recommended this line ages ago.
  
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Re: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.b4 !?
Reply #9 - 08/21/05 at 09:39:32
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You guys are killing me. 1.e4 d5 2.g4? is flat out ridiculous. Let's look at the position first before suggested crazy move. White has just left his e4 pawn hanging and weakened his kingside with one move! Hooray!
  
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Re: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.b4 !?
Reply #8 - 08/21/05 at 00:00:06
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Very nice. I know a master, Yefim Treger, who plays  1 e4 d5 
2 ed5 Qxd5  3 Nc3 Qa5  4 b4!  and wins a lot of games.  In fact, he defeated a 2170 player with White in this line.
I personally saw him defeat a 2024 player as well. 
The line is highly tactical and positional.  NM Treger regularly plays at the Marshall Chess Club in New York.

But here is another line against the Scandinavian: 

  1 e4 d5 2 g4!   

Transposing to the Zilbermints Gambit in the Grob Attack.

Now after 2...dxe4  3 Nc3! the fun starts. Black is out of the book, and White dictates play.
  
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Re: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.b4 !?
Reply #7 - 08/09/05 at 19:49:51
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Wing Gambit ideas against the Scandanavian crop up sporadically in various lines, sadly though the 'Database Age' has not been kind to the Mieses. 

If you want to sac your Wing pawn against the Scandanavian, then the following line is probably your best bet:

[Event "Arnold Cup"]
[Site "Gausdal"]
[Date "1992.04.??"]
[Round "7"]
[White "Kharlov,Andrei"]
[Black "Westerinen,Heikki MJ"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Eco "B01"]
1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Bc4 Bf5 6.b4!? Qb6 [6...Qxb4?! 7.Ne5 e6 8.Rb1] +/=] 7.0-0 e6 8.d3 Be7 9.Bf4 0-0 10.Nb5 Na6 11.a3 Nd5 12.Be5 Bf6 13.Qe1 Rad8 14.h3 c6 15.Nbd4 Bg6 16.Rb1 Bxe5 17.Qxe5 Nb8 18.Nb3 Nd7 19.Qg3 Qc7 20.Qxc7 Nxc7 21.Na5 Rb8 22.Rfe1 Rfc8 23.Nd4 Kf8 24.g4 e5 25.Nf3 f6 26.d4 e4 27.Nh4 Nd5 28.Bf1 Re8 29.Rb3 Re6 30.c4 Nf4 31.Rbe3 b6 32.Nb3 Rbe8 33.Nd2 Rd6 34.Ndf3 f5 35.gxf5 Bh5 36.Rxe4 Rxe4 37.Rxe4 Bxf3 38.Nxf3 Nh5 39.Ng5 Ndf6 40.Re6 Rxd4 41.Rxf6+  1-0


Perhaps you could investigate this option further.

Tops Grin
  

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Re: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.b4 !?
Reply #6 - 08/09/05 at 10:03:55
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"(but when was Kasparov ever the second most prepared player at the board?)"
In the first game of his match against Kortsjnoj and several times against Karpov. Finally in his lost match against Kramnik.
I have my doubts on the Mieses Gambit. Keeping the Black Queen's bishop shut in, is that really worth a pawn?
  

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Re: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.b4 !?
Reply #5 - 08/06/05 at 09:07:28
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Thanks for your answer Hgman. I think I'll prepare something with this opening... It seems it has been played a lot... Wink
  

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Re: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.b4 !?
Reply #4 - 08/06/05 at 08:32:46
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TalJechin's idea looks interesting and a little home cooking with 8 g3 might well be very worthwhile.  Rare and inferior lines can still yield a lot of points if you are well prepared.  Catching your opponents off-guard is always valuable even at relatively high levels.  Witness, for example, Kasparov's success with the Scotch or the Evans.  Neither is strictly inferior, but the surprise value and his being better prepared (but when was Kasparov ever the second most prepared player at the board?) proved that he could outplay opponents with reasonable success...
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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Re: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.b4 !?
Reply #3 - 08/06/05 at 05:19:23
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So it seems this line is considered inferior ?!
Because I'm looking for a quite rare line to play against the scandinavian...
  

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TalJechin
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Re: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.b4 !?
Reply #2 - 08/06/05 at 04:29:27
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It's called Mieses Gambit, and is usually considered inferior as after 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.b4 Qxb4 5.Rb1 Qd6 6.d4 Nf6 7.Nf3 a6 Black intends to meet 8.Bc4 with e6 and 8.Bd3 with g6, when white will most likely need to move his whitefielder to a more promising square, wasting time.

But Emms mentions an interesting alternative in 8.g3!? putting the bishop on a good diagonal when black will be reluctant to block it with c6 as that don't look pretty in combination with a6...

So far I've only seen two games with it, but it does look like comp for the pawn to me.

Fullbrook,N - Zuk,R [B01]
Vancouver inv Vancouver (2), 08.1984

1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.b4 Qxb4 5.Rb1 Qd6 6.d4 Nf6 7.Nf3 a6 8.g3 b6 9.Bf4 Qd8 10.Bg2 Bb7 11.d5 Nxd5 12.Nxd5 Qxd5 13.0-0 Nd7 14.Bxc7 Qc5 15.Bf4 Rd8 16.Re1 e6 17.Ng5 Bxg2 18.Kxg2 Qc6+ 19.Kg1 Nf6 20.Qe2 b5 ½-½


Ivanets,S (2261) - Minakov,V [B01]
ch-Kiev Kiev UKR (3), 17.01.2005

1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.b4 Qxb4 5.Rb1 Qd6 6.d4 Nf6 7.Nf3 a6 8.g3 b6 9.Bg2 Bb7 10.0-0 e6 11.Ne5 Bxg2 12.Kxg2 Be7 13.Qf3 Ra7 14.Rd1 0-0 15.Bg5 Qd8 16.h4 Nfd7 17.Qg4 Nf6 18.Bxf6 Bxf6 19.Ne4 Bxe5 20.dxe5 Qe7 21.Rb3 Kh8 22.Rbd3 Nc6 23.Rd7 Nxe5 24.Rxe7 Nxg4 25.Rxf7 Kg8 26.Re7 Nh6 27.Rdd7 Nf5 28.Rxe6 Raa8 29.Rxc7 Rae8 30.Rxe8 Rxe8 31.f3 Ne3+ 32.Kf2 Nd5 33.Rc6 a5 34.a3 Rb8 35.c4 Ne7 36.Rc7 Nf5 37.h5 Nd4 38.Nd6 Rd8 39.Ne4 Nc2 40.a4 Rd1 41.c5 bxc5 42.Rxc5 Nb4 43.Rxa5 Ra1 44.Nd6 h6 45.Nf5 Ra2+ 46.Kg1 Nd3 47.Ra7 Ne5 48.f4 Nf3+ 49.Kf1 Rd2 50.Nh4 Nxh4 51.gxh4 Rd4 52.Kf2 Rxf4+ 53.Kg3 Rb4 54.a5 Rb3+ 55.Kg4 Rb4+ 56.Kg3 Rb3+ 57.Kf4 Rb4+ 58.Ke5 Rxh4 59.a6 Rxh5+ 60.Kd6 Ra5 61.Kc6 h5 62.Kb6 Ra2 63.Rc7 Rb2+ 64.Kc6 Kh7 65.a7 Ra2 66.Kb7 Rxa7+ 67.Kxa7 Kh6 68.Kb6 h4 69.Kc5 g5 70.Kd4 Kh5 71.Ke3 Kg4 72.Kf2 Kh3 73.Rc1 Kg4 74.Kg2 Kh5 75.Rc5 Kg4 76.Rc4+ 1-0

  
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Re: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.b4 !?
Reply #1 - 08/05/05 at 17:10:19
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I suspect that the correct evaluation might be 4 b4?! instead of !?.  This looks more than a little dubious for anything more serious than blitz, but I'm sure many will disagree.  If I recall correctly, Gary Lane talked about it on his www.chesscafe.com column, "Opening Lanes."   

Check out: www.chesscafe.com/text/lane16.txt
  

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1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.b4 !?
08/05/05 at 16:53:22
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Could anybody tell me about this variation of the Center Counter which I find very interesting ?  Roll Eyes

Does anybody know if I could find some theory about it on the web ? 

Thanks.
  

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