Hi, i have a question

1)e4 d5
2)e:d5 Q:d5
3)Nc3  Qa5
4)d4    Nf6
5)Nf3  c6
6)Bd2

Now instead of 6...Bf5 some books give 6...Qb6! (their exclamation mark, not mine )

and  7 Bc4 Bf5 8 O-O

but what about c2 pawn sacrifice 8.Qe2 ?

what should Black play now?

So is it true that the scandanavian is busted?

bonsai What about the move order:
1.e4 d5 2.xd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.d4 c6 5.Bc4  Bf5 6.Nf3 e6 7.Bd2 Qc7?
By delaying Nf6 black has avoided the discovery trick which results in damaged pawns or an offside queen. This move order seem to be fairly resilient.


The knight on e2 is actually fullfilling a number of duties, supporting Nc3, supporting Bf4 and ready to go to g3 with tempo.
1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.d4 c6 5.Bc4 Bf5 6.Ne2 e6 7.Bdf4 Nf6 looks like blacks best.
7... Ne7 looks a bit too slow, blocking in the bishop. The bishop does not appear to have a good square to clear to since 7...Bb4 8.a3 and there goes the bishop pair and any congestion white might have had. Nh6 looks insane if black wants a future on the kingside. On the plus side 7...Nf6 8.Qd2 can be met with ..Bb4 and an ending where black has better structure and white has the bishop pair.

1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.d4 c6 5.Bc4 Bf5 6.Ne2 e6  7.Bd2 and now:
7..Moving the Bf8 drops the bishop loses the bishop pair.
7..Nd7 8.0-0 0-0-0 looks insane.
All roads lead to Nf6 and Qc7.
7..Nf6 8.Nd5 Qd8 9.Nxf6 Qxf6 10.0-0 looks a little better for white.
7..Nf6 8.Nd5 Qc7 9.Nxf6 xf6 is remniscant of a certain caro variation only white is better developed though not with an optimal setup.
7.Qc7 8.Bf4 and whites development taking on mythical proprtions though black still has scandinavian solidity.
8..Bd6 9.Bxd6 Qxd6 trades pieces.
8...Qmove leaves bishop on f4 preventing a pawn rush but I think black is getting to far behind in development.

Of these two lines I think the latter is actually better. It takes an extra tempo to get to f4 but black has trouble finding a good spot for his queen. Back to a5 and it's white who's up a tempo.

Top
1)Can black get away with a e5 setup after d3? Maybe with the bishop remaining on c8. Hmm. No, it looks dangerous. Then again I don;t have Fritz on me.
2)Can black keep the bishop on c6 and argue that e3 is insufficiently agressive without a bishop to hook against. (Though now that I think about it even after white expends a tempo plaing d4 it looks like a Caro line where white has accelerated development)
3)e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qa5 4. Bc4 Nf6 5. d3 c6 6. Bd2 Qc7 7. Qe2 Nd7 9. g4 Bg6 10. f4. I stopped payng attention after a peek at how both games continued. Black's position is best evaluated as sucky although some might disagree and instead call it crappy. Who knew that the half hearted d pawn push carried such venom? It appears standard scandinavian play leads to terrible positions after d3. Black will have to settle for one of the above lines.

Quote:

While your post is quite difficult to read, I believe you are suggesting to play
1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.d4 c6 5.Bc4 Bf5 6.Ne2 
In that move order black should avoid 6...Nf6 and can play 6...e6 leaving the options Ng8-e7 and Ng8-h6 open to counter the possible white Ng3 + f2-f4-f5 plan. Playing 6.Bd2 (or 7.Bd2) here is fairly harmless, I think, and black could probably just sidestep with his queen, because white is not very well placed to exploit another loss of time by black. If black plays as above, 6.Bd2 planning d4-d5 as soon as possible is strong.

However here and even more so after 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.d4 Nf6 the move 5.Nf3 is really the main line and that's for a good reason (5.Bd2 is "just" fairly interesting, but e.g. 5.Bc4 is just no good now).

Against 5...Bg4 the main line with 6.h3 Bh5 7.g4 Bg6 8.Ne5 is clearly best and against 5...Bf5 (or 5...c6 followed by 6...Bf5) the lines with Bc4+Bd2+Nd5 (followed by Nxf6) are the ones that pose the greatest problems for black.

My impression is that white has a chance of getting an advantage that is possibly slightly larger than the one he is usually entitled to in more mainline openings.

Quote:


It's difficult to say what white can achieve, but particularly in the Qa5 system black is playing a dangerous game of trying to get easy development in exchange for giving white a lead in development. 

PS: I'm sure someone will soon go on about the merits of 4...e5, but it's a move I've never personally liked much (that's without saying anything about its objective merits), but potentially one can get rid of that possibility by playing 4.Nf3 followed by 5.d4?

I believe x suggested we start such a thread and since NCO is (rather unusually) not too useful I'm up for hearing what everyone's opinion of the strongest lines for white are. I'm also interested in scandinavian players' opinions on what those strongest lines are and how they meet them. (Though I'm not terribly interested in how can just "play natural moves without knowing theory", how "most white players don't play the best moves and so black equalizes easily, and other such statements in a certain 100 post topic.)
After 1.e4 d5 2.xd5 Nf6 I've never had trouble after 3.d4, obtaining an easy edge after Nx, Qx and Bg4.
After 2...Qxd4 3.Nc3 we have
3...Qd6 I suspect the key here is a move order that forces a6/c6 followed by g3/Ne2 and Bf4. g3 seems a bit slow but I've herd someone mention it was Emms recomendation and I can see a fianchetto being useful against 0-0-0. Isn't it a bit too slow for advantage against 0-0 plans by black though? Ne2 is puts question to Black's light squared bishop after Ng3 and can support a rush with the f pawn. Is  there significant downside?

3...Qa5 Move orders move orders. What are the linked moves? (By this I mean if white plays x black better play y or white can punish with z) 
My current setup up is:
d4/ Bc5/ Ne2/ Bd2 against c6/Bf4/Nf6. After 7...e6 the queen wastes more time on 9..Qxf6 or the pawn structure is damaged on xf6. After 7...Qc7 8.Bf4 the bishop moves again but the so does the queen and she has trouble finding a good square. Perhaps better is forgoing Bd2 and playing d4/Bc5/Ne2/0-0 against c6/Bf4/Nf6. Now e6 is met with Bf4. Unless I am missing a compelling Nf3 setup black can likely get this anyway by delaying Nf6. I suspect this setup is not most challenging but rather aimed at natural black moves, though I have obtained significant advantage against a few masters. What are the most challenging Nf3 setups (and move orders of course)

3...Qd8 NCO gives convincing lines against g6 and Ng4 ideas but what about a Bc5? Natural moves give white a healthy lead in development against a fairly solid setup but what is the BEST way for white to secure an advantage.

3....Qe5+ Sure Ne2 is the way to go, cutting short Black's plan of playing c6/Qc7 and trying to reach a Qa5 line with the White bishop on Be2 instead of Bc5.

Yes. I'm slightly partial to Ne2 but thats only because it trips up black's plans slightly and because NCO is not very detailed with the scandinavian so I don't know other challenging plans . . .yet.

Some might scoff and say the scandinavian is too sound to be refuted Englund gambit style. They may be right but if something as main line as the Open Lopez contains a Ng5 then there ought to be was white can obtain strong presure against the Scandinavian.