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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Dismantling de Sicilian - Taimanov line (Read 20763 times)
Sacapawn
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Re: Dismantling de Sicilian - Taimanov line
Reply #51 - 10/13/05 at 01:36:44
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If 7...a6 8.Nd4.  What's the problem with that?

Just that it is harmless. Compare with the position after 6.Be3 a6: the Black queen is on c7 and it is White's move. In your position after 8.Nd4 the Black queen is on b8 (maybe slightly worse than c7) but it is Black to move. Black can play 8.-,Qc7?! to reach the position after 6.Be3 a6, but will play some developing move instead.

GM Sax has played with 7.a4 after 6.Ndb5 Qb8 in some games. Should not be any problem for Black theoretically.

8.Bb6 axb5 9.Nxb5 Bb4+ 10.c3 Ba5 11.Nc7+ Qxc7 (11.-,Kf8? 12.Nxa8 Qxa8 13.Qd6+ followed by Qa3 is better for White) leads to unclear positions. But in practical play White has had good results recently, Ponomariov has played this successfully as White in some games.
  
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lost highway
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Re: Dismantling de Sicilian - Taimanov line
Reply #50 - 10/12/05 at 17:05:42
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@lost highway: "6.Ndb5 Qb8 7.Be3 is also playable and better than its reputation." Well, I'm convinced that it is WORSE than its reputation due to 7...a6, taking the 3 pieces for the queen and asking for more.

Semkov -

If 7...a6 8.Nd4.  What's the problem with that?

- Lost Highway
  
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Re: Dismantling de Sicilian - Taimanov line
Reply #49 - 10/12/05 at 15:03:21
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@lost highway: "6.Ndb5 Qb8 7.Be3 is also playable and better than its reputation." Well, I'm convinced that it is WORSE than its reputation due to 7...a6, taking the 3 pieces for the queen and asking for more.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Dismantling de Sicilian - Taimanov line
Reply #48 - 10/09/05 at 21:36:08
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Embarrassed

Michael, you're right.  When using the verb "to be" it's difficult to form a passive sentence because the two sides of the equation are supposed to be equal. 

Thus,
translator=Ken Neat. 

I would have preferrred Ken Neat = Translator, but that's a matter of style more than grammar.

You are also right in your use of passive voice.  I usually explain passive voice as a sentence in which the actor isn't present or is mentioned as an afterthought.  The classic example of this was Ronald Reagan's

"Mistakes were made."

or,

"I was bitten."

Yoda-speak, such as "Bitten, I was" is an even more clear example of passive voice.

In Russian, it's perfectly acceptable.  In English, we like to know who's doing the acting!

So, while "I was bitten by your dog" is acceptable, the more active (and less wordy) "Your dog bit me" is preferrable.

Do you agree?
  
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lost highway
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Re: Dismantling de Sicilian - Taimanov line
Reply #47 - 10/09/05 at 20:12:36
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@lost_highway: I didn't really think that 6.Ndb5 Qb8 7.Be3 was a problem for Black, so long as he's willing to accept a Scheveningen structure with d7-d6 (7...Nf6 8. f4 d6).  I'm curious about whether Black can play 7...Nf6 followed by 8...b6!? agsainst other White eighth moves;  I played this once and won an easy game against a weaker player who played 8. Bd3, and I've analysed it a little.  I really don't see any way for White to get anything more than a normal, slight edge.

If white does not play 8.f4 and plays 8.Bd3, then 8...b6 is good.  White's bishop belongs on e2.

- Lost Highway

  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Dismantling de Sicilian - Taimanov line
Reply #46 - 10/09/05 at 16:55:50
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@Michael: thanks for some more help on the active/passive voice subject!

@lost_highway: I didn't really think that 6.Ndb5 Qb8 7.Be3 was a problem for Black, so long as he's willing to accept a Scheveningen structure with d7-d6 (7...Nf6 8. f4 d6).  I'm curious about whether Black can play 7...Nf6 followed by 8...b6!? agsainst other White eighth moves;  I played this once and won an easy game against a weaker player who played 8. Bd3, and I've analysed it a little.  I really don't see any way for White to get anything more than a normal, slight edge.
  
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Re: Dismantling de Sicilian - Taimanov line
Reply #45 - 10/07/05 at 16:02:10
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Hi Fernando,

Your question is very complex...

Maybe try to play this:

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nc6 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be3 a6 7.Qd2 b5  8.Nxc6 Qxc6 9.f3 Bb7

(9...Bb4 10.Qd4 Bxc3+ 11.bxc3 f6 12.c4 Ne7 13.Qc5 Qxc5 14.Bxc5 bxc4 15.Bxc4 Bb7 16.Rb1±;

9...Nf6 10.0-0-0 b4 11.Ne2 d5 12.e5 Nd7 13.f4 Nc5 14.Nd4 Qb7 15.Qe1 Bd7 16.g4± Anand - Ljubojevic, Monte Carlo 2003;

9...Bc5 10.Bd3 Bb7 11.a4² Wells - Gostisa, Bled 1995)

A1) 10.0-0-0 Ne7? (10...Nf6 11.Ne2 -> 10.Ne2) 11.Bc5! (11.h4!? h5 12.Bd3 0-0-0 13.Kb1 Kb8? 14.Nxb5! Nc8 15.Nd4+- Naiditsch - Sax, Cesme 2004) 11...0-0-0 12.Qf2 d5 13.Bd3 Kb8 14.exd5 Nxd5 15.Ba7+± Arizmendi;

A2) 10.Ne2 Nf6 11.0-0-0 Rc8 12.Nd4 Qc7 13.g4± Barlov 13...e5 (13...h6 14.h4 e5 15.Nb3±) 14.Nb3 Bb4 15.Qg2 0-0 16.Bd3± Van der Wiel - Zapata, Amsterdam 1987

Best regards

In this line, 6.Ndb5 Qb8 7.Be3 is also playable and better than its reputation.

- Lost Highway
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Dismantling de Sicilian - Taimanov line
Reply #44 - 10/07/05 at 15:19:36
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In all my years’ work as a professional editor I’ve never come across THIS particular misunderstanding, ErictheRed!

Your claim that Smyslov_Fan’s original sentence does not represent the passive voice is indeed correct, but the same is also true of both the sentences you give at the bottom of your post! In the first of these, the verb “is … reading” (the adverb, “quietly”, is an irrelevance) is active, and the tense is present continuous (as opposed to the simple present, “reads”). In the second, the verb, “sits”, is also active, and its tense is simple present (as opposed to the continuous present, “is sitting”). (The adverb is, again, an irrelevance, as is the participle “reading”.)

Your misunderstanding appears to arise from a confusion between, on the one hand, voice and, on the other, aspects of tense. They are two separate things!

Here is an example of the active/passive distinction:

Your dog bit me. [active]

I was bitten by your dog. [passive]
« Last Edit: 10/07/05 at 17:14:19 by Michael Ayton »  
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Re: Dismantling de Sicilian - Taimanov line
Reply #43 - 10/07/05 at 13:33:49
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A little grammar lesson:

@Smyslov_Fan:
The sentence "Probably the most prolific translator from Russian to American is Ken Neat," is actually not written in passive voice.  Passive voice refers to a verb "disguised" as a noun.  For instance, to say "He is sitting" disguises the verb sit as a noun, sitting.  Active voice would be "He sits." (Note that in some cases, changing from passive to active voice loses information, i.e. when he chooses to sit).

To say "...form Russian to American is Ken Neat" is NOT passively voiced, as Ken Neat is not a verb disguising itself as a noun; Ken Neat is certainly a noun!

Not passive voice: "The house is red."

Passive voice: "She is quietly reading a book."
Active voice: "She sits quietly at the table, reading."

Got it?

  
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Semkov
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Re: Dismantling de Sicilian - Taimanov line
Reply #42 - 10/04/05 at 04:28:03
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@Smyslov_Fan: I registered about half an year ago, but I seldom log in as I prefer to write as "Guest".
Anyone is welcome to contact me at semkov@chess-stars.com.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Dismantling de Sicilian - Taimanov line
Reply #41 - 10/01/05 at 11:11:39
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Semkov:

Please register here (it's free) so that we can communicate by messaging some time!!
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Dismantling de Sicilian - Taimanov line
Reply #40 - 10/01/05 at 11:10:12
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Semkov and Willempie,

It's true, The Americans and Brits are separated by a common language.  I often spell according to the British Standard (Queen's English) which gets me in trouble here in America.  I make numerous mistakes in my own writing, as some of you may have noticed.  However, I do pride myself on correct grammar and know full well that many "professional" documents don't reflect any respect for English.

I haven't seen the Anand series yet, so I can't comment on Ermenkov's translations.  Probably the most prolific translator from Russian to American is Ken Neat.  (See, passive voice!  In English, passive voice is weak.  In Russian, it's fully acceptable!)

I'm sorry to hear that there are so many difficulties with finding translators.  It's even worse news that shipping costs are so high for you.  Chess Stars has made a name for itself over here for its high quality books. 

Many strong chess players aren't particularly bothered by poor translations as long the analysis holds up.  These players do not make up much of the market for chess books here.   

I've watched as people at tournaments go about choosing books from the vendors.  I'm always surprised by how few actually open the book and read before buying.  Many people really do judge a book by its cover.  Chess Stars has nice covers, but Gambit, Everyman, and Cadogan generally have flashier covers. 

The readers who do read parts of books before they buy are often put off by the depth of analysis in Chess Stars books. They are hard to digest while standing in a hotel lobby between rounds. I buy them because they are so challenging!  You wouldn't be Chess Stars without that level of analysis!  You really have done a great job of getting high-class players to devote considerable energy to their books. 

So, thank you for remaining committed to publishing excellent chess books!
  
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Re: Dismantling de Sicilian - Taimanov line
Reply #39 - 09/29/05 at 13:57:01
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I have the Anands and the Karpov book. The translation in the Anands is a notch better. I only notice minor errors. Usually it is the use of a certain word, which is not used in that specific context. Eg falling back in development, which should be behind. However I find that very minor as the meaning is entirely clear. So I feel Ermenkov is doing a very good job. At least he doesnt use the word pressuris(z)e to which native chess writers seem to be addicted. Roll Eyes

I would also add that many native English speakers make many errors in writing as well. I work for an american company who also have a lot of british employees and you see quite some similar errors in official documents like manuals and communiquees. Another annoyment is the spelling differences. For example I regularly get emails about organizing and organising.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Dismantling de Sicilian - Taimanov line
Reply #38 - 09/29/05 at 12:13:47
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There is little to be done with the English, sorry.
1. Russian/Eastern Europe people have very different thinking, compared to the US chess amateurs.

2. There is practically no good chess translator from Russian to English that I know of. If there is one, he probably costs twice the author's fee which is unacceptable. If we pay much to a translator, we should pay less to authors. Even now US customers think that our books are too expensive (although end prices are determined by the dealers and we cannot influence them).
Notice that compared to an English publisher we are in very inferior position - we have to pay for translation, we have no friendly connections with magazines, coaches and native GMs. In fact we are concurents. Finally our authors are just better players so their time is more expensive (on top of all they spend more than 6 months, sometimes a year on one book, which is evidently not the case with most other authors). Additionally transport costs are much higher for us.

3. It remains a native editor and we used such a help for our last games collections assuming that in this type of books bad English is more annoying. However editing consumes time and an opening book is aging by hours, so we would not like to waste addtional time.

What do you think about the translation of GM Ermenkov?(Anand 2-4 and other books) Before him we changed 6-7 "professional" translators, but he seems our best find so far.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Dismantling de Sicilian - Taimanov line
Reply #37 - 09/28/05 at 22:08:12
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In any case a top player earns in one tournament more than his fee for a book. Only one shared secret could cost him in a decisive game more money than is the fee.



That's a sad fact that I didn't know.  Considering how little even the top players make in a tournament, it makes professional chess even less appetizing.

Semkov, I love your philosophy, and as a reader I appreciate that Chess Stars treats its authors well.  I hope you also help them with the grammar and readability of the text.  That has been my single biggest gripe with books by top-flight players.  Their English is often atrocious.  Even native speakers aren't always capable of expressing themselves in writing.
  
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