Normal Topic Italian Two Knights strange variation/ANTIMAXLANGE (Read 3728 times)
micawber
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Re: Italian Two Knights strange variation
Reply #4 - 09/28/05 at 22:49:08
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Quote:
1.e4,e5 2.Nf3,Nc6 3.d4 (Italian?) , exd4 4.Bc4, Nf6! (Yes)
5. e5,d5 6.Bb5,Ne4 7.Nd4,Bc5 (Davies prefers Bd7)
8. 0-0,0-0 9.Bxc6,bxc6 10.Nxc6,Qd7 11.Nd4,Qe7
Thusfar all theory you can find it chesspublishing
What follows is rather new and if I say so myself rather odd:
12.Bf4,Ba6 (the intro for a piece-sac, 6 is normal) 13.Re1,Nxf2 !? ???


Now MNb suggested that black could improve by playing 
13...Rb8 first. And he seems right. 
====================================
The proper evaluation is important. Because if this is correct. White can only play
7....Bc5 8.Be3 and his possibilities are severly limited.
In that case 7...Bc5 is without doubt a much better 
continuation than 7......Bd7. 

========================================
Lets deal with some minor variations first:
A) 14.c3, Rxb2 (15.Nb3??,Bxf2+)
B) 14.f3,Nf2! 15.Kxf2,Qh4 16.g3,Qxg2+ 17.Ke3,Rb4
    18.c3,Bxd4+ (like NmB's line) 19.cxd4,c5! -+
=========================================
The best reply is possibly 14.Be3. But if this is so
black has easy equality in this line and can try for more:

14.Be3,Qxe5 15.Nc6,Bxe3!? 16.Nxe5,Nxf2 
17.Q? ,Nh3+ is an amusing perpetual

14.Be3, Rxb2 15.f3,Ng5 is the way for black to
play on:
16.Bxg5,Qxg5 and I prefer black
16.Nc3, c6 and black has a perfectly playable position
=========================================
The most logical sequence is:
13.Re1,Rb8 14.b3,Nxf2 15.Kxf2,Qh4+ 16.g3,Qxh2
17.Kf3,g5 
{in fact the game-position with the moves Rb8/b3 included}

Now white has three main options:
I. 18.Rh1
II. 18.Bxg5,f6 19.gxf6
III. 18. Bxg5,f6 19.Bxf6
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
VAR I
13.Re1,Rb8 14.b3,Nxf2 15.Kxf2,Qh4+ 16.g3,Qxh2
17.Kf3,g5 18.Rh1

18...g4+ 19.Kxg4,Qf2 20.Nf3,h5+ 21.Rxh5,Bc8+
22.Kh4,Rb6 =+ 
{20.c3,Rb6 =+}
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
VAR II

13.Re1,Rb8 14.b3,Nxf2 15.Kxf2,Qh4+ 16.g3,Qxh2
17.Kf3,g5 18.Bxg5,f6 19.exf6

19....Rb6 20.Nf5,Qf2+ 21.Kg4,h5 22.Kxh5,Qxf5
23.Qg4,Rbxf6  (the threat:  Rh6+- Kxh6 Qh7++)
24 Qxf5.Rxf5 
this is IMO not an easy endgame for white to play
developing his last pieces is still a problem
(for instance 25.Nd2?,Kf7! threatening to
play Bc8 after which Rh8+ Kg4 Rf5-??+ is deadly)

Note that 19...Rb4 looks promising in this line as well
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

VAR III


13.Re1,Rb8 14.b3,Nxf2 15.Kxf2,Qh4+ 16.g3,Qxh2
17.Kf3,g5 18.Bxg5,f6 19.Bxf6

19......Rb4 
x) 20.c3
y) 20.Qd2
z) 20.c4

III.x
20.c3,Bxd4 21.cxd4,Rb6! -+ and there is little white can
do against the main threat Rxf6,exf6 Rxf6+ threatening mate
III.y
20.Qd2,Qh5 21.Kg2,Rxd4 22.Qg5+,Qxg5 23.Bxg5,Re4! =+
again black has the more pleasant position
III.z
20.c4,dxc 21.Nc6,Qf2+
22.Ke4  (22.Kg4?,Bc8+ is unpleasant)
22......,  Bc8
23.Qd5+ (23.Nxb4,Bf5+ 24.Kd5,Bxb4 with a massive attack
23......,  Rf7
And now white can eliminate the annoying bishop
but is left with a scattered army that can hardly withstand
black's attack:
24.Qd8+,Bf8 25.Qxc8,Qxe1+ (26.Kf3?,Qh1 27.k?,Qxc6)

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
THX Mnb FOR PUTTING ME ON THE RIGHT TRACK.
I had several days to choose between Rb8 and Nxf2
and choose wrongly, while you spotted the right move
within a day!  Angry
« Last Edit: 10/07/05 at 02:22:32 by micawber »  
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micawber
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Re: Italian Two Knights strange variation
Reply #3 - 09/24/05 at 02:20:01
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Thx Mnb for the reaction,

The variations you gave look quite good.
But I still need some time to think about the move-order
with Rab8 interposed, when b3/Nc3 instead of f3 is played.

I fully agree that Bc5 is a better and at least more
interesting move than Bd7
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Italian Two Knights strange variation
Reply #2 - 09/23/05 at 15:55:04
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Quote:
Four remarks.
1. This is basically a Two Knights Defense.
2. Davies is a much better player than I am, but 7...Bd7 gives White chances for an advantage, as the plan f2-f3-f4 is much stronger; 7...Bc5! is strongest.
3. 11.Nd4 Ba6 12.Re1 Qe7 13.Bf4 (13.c3!?) has been played in F ages-Fedorko, IECG 2000. The game continued Rab8 14.f3 Nf2 15.Kxf2 Qh4+ 16.g3 Qxh2+ 17.Ke3 Rb4 18.c3 Bxd4+ 19.cxd4 c5 20.dxc5 d4+ 0-1.
Your move order seems more precise. At the other hand I think your piece sac to early; Rab8 is a good preparing move.
4. The safe continuation is 11.Nd4 Ba6 12.Re1 Rae8 13.f3 Nd6 14.c3 Nc4 15.b4 Bb6 16.a4 Nxe5 17.b5 Hoiberg-Pedersen, Aarhus 1993, c5! equal.


Still trying to keep Smyslov_Fan at bay I see.

Toppy Grin 
  

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MNb
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Re: Italian Two Knights strange variation
Reply #1 - 09/23/05 at 15:33:50
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Four remarks.
1. This is basically a Two Knights Defense.
2. Davies is a much better player than I am, but 7...Bd7 gives White chances for an advantage, as the plan f2-f3-f4 is much stronger; 7...Bc5! is strongest.
3. 11.Nd4 Ba6 12.Re1 Qe7 13.Bf4 (13.c3!?) has been played in F ages-Fedorko, IECG 2000. The game continued Rab8 14.f3 Nf2 15.Kxf2 Qh4+ 16.g3 Qxh2+ 17.Ke3 Rb4 18.c3 Bxd4+ 19.cxd4 c5 20.dxc5 d4+ 0-1.
Your move order seems more precise. At the other hand I think your piece sac to early; Rab8 is a good preparing move.
4. The safe continuation is 11.Nd4 Ba6 12.Re1 Rae8 13.f3 Nd6 14.c3 Nc4 15.b4 Bb6 16.a4 Nxe5 17.b5 Hoiberg-Pedersen, Aarhus 1993, c5! equal.
  

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micawber
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Italian Two Knights strange variation/ANTIMAXLANGE
09/23/05 at 11:43:11
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NOTE:
FURTHER DOWN THIS THREAd IVE POSTED A CORRECT VERSION OF THE PIECE-SAC

1.e4,e5 2.Nf3,Nc6 3.d4 (Italian?) , exd4 4.Bc4, Nf6! (Yes)
5. e5,d5 6.Bb5,Ne4 7.Nd4,Bc5 (Davies prefers Bd7)
8. 0-0,0-0 9.Bxc6,bxc6 10.Nxc6,Qd7 11.Nd4,Qe7
Thusfar all theory you can find in chesspublishing
What follows is rather new and if I say so myself rather odd:
12.Bf4,Ba6 (the intro for a piece-sac, f6 is normal) 13.Re1,Nxf2 !?
{In retrospect I dont think the sac is very sound,
unless some improvement is found}
14.Nxf2,Qh4+ 15.g3,Qxh2+ 16.Kf3!,g5 17.Bxg5, 
17...f6!? 18.Bxf6,Rxf6!
{I am in the business of opening lines on the kingside}
{but the piece-sac has become a Rook-sacrifice!}
19.exf6,Rf8 
{fresh troops to the battlefield Smiley}
20.Nf5!, Qf2+ 21.Kg4 
{I had planned 21...c6 but this
fails miserable after 22.Re6; disappointing: I've chased
the King all over the board to g4, yet there is no deadly
finish} 
21...Kh8 
{making room for Rg8 and denying white the pleasure to take d5 with check}
22.f7! {preventing Rg8+}
22....,Bc8 {The last reserves are coming into battle}
23.Qxd5!, {white is not materialistic: he returns an exchange, staying a piece up in a seeming promising pos)
23......Qxe1
24.Qxc5, Bxf5+
25.Qxf5, Kg7
{Now and odd situation has arisen: white is a piece ahead
but his queenside is still dormant. If black gets Rxf7 in
the risky position of whites King is of importance}
26.a4?! White's first dubious move in the game
{I thought 26.Qf3 threatening Qc3+ exchanging queens and freeing the queenside was much stronger}
26....Rxf7 {Now white has to be carefull}
27.Qg5+,Kf8 28.Qd8+,Kg7 29.Qg5+ drawn.

Nastya-Micawber, E-mail-game august 2005

QUESTION: HAS ANYONE SEEN THIS SAC BEFORE
OR HAS READ THEORY ABOUT IT?
QUESTION: ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR IMPROVEMENT

???
« Last Edit: 10/07/05 at 02:25:24 by micawber »  
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