please vote if you are interested in the game.

You must go to 

http://www.chessworld.net/chessclubs/forums_thread_show_one_posteronleft style.asp?forumid=7733&ThreadID=2889326#message2921361 
 

but make sure you go to the "Play " drop down menu (upper left hand corner) and then look for "World Team Games"

after you recognize which game it is (it is the Saemisch game) click on the game and then on the right click on joint the world team.  after you click on it, then move on the board and that will submit your vote or, you can type the move and then click submit.

I'm not pretending to give any analysis at this point.

My vote would be for 9...h5 over 9...Nh5.

Quote:


Inn2,

Before we end the discussion, which I found very beneficial, could you answer 3 yes and no questions?

1.  after  14. Ne2 Be5 
15. g3 fxg3 
16. hxg3 h4 
17. f4 Bg7 does Dreev suggest 
18. Qd3 

?

the other 2 questions depend.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f3 O-O 
6.Nge2 c5 7. d5 e6 8. Ng3 exd5 9. cxd5 Nh5 
10. Nxh5 gxh5 

11. Bd3 f5 
12. O-O Nd7
13. Bc2 f4 

But here GM Gallagher and  GM Reinderman both recommend 

13... Ne5 
14. Ne2 Ng6 

Instead of the move analyzed by GM Dreev,  14... Qh4

15. exf5 Bxf5 
16. Bxf5 Rxf5 
17. Ng3 Rf7 
18. Nxh5 Bd4+ 
19. Kh1 Qh4 
20. f4 Raf8 

20...  Re8 was the move played by Reinderman and the game ended in a draw, Black was OK.

But after 20...  Raf8, Black is very nicely placed and White's pieces are not very active at all and white is thinking about defense here.  The immediate threat here is ....Ne5 (!) the pawn is pinned, and then Ng4, brute but direct.  Not easy since if White tries

21.g3 ?   Qh3 white gets into a bit of trouble.

or 

21. Bd2 Ne5 ! Black plays it anyway and is looking great with an undisputable initiative.

" edit: Anyway, looking at informator 79, Dreev-Peng Xiaomin went 11. Bd3 f5 12. 0-0 12. 0-0 Nd7 13. Bc2(N) Ne5 14. Ne2! Qh4! 15. f4! (annotations by Dreev), after Black knight moves, White's idea is exchange twice on f5 and play Ng3. So 11. Bd3 is not bad either.  Also in this variation it does not seem scary to allow Black to play f4, because after that White can even attack the f4 pawn. "

So does anyone suppose that while White seeks his plsy in "attacking" the f4 pawn Black will sit around and do nothing?

After Dreev's analysis of 11.Bd3 f5  12.0-0 Nd7  13.Bc2 (his suggested improvement)

what about 

13... f4 ?

and I give the following plan/set -up for attack--
Be5, Qf6, march up my strong foot soldier h4-h3, Rf7, move the knight, Bd7 (or Bxh3 if applicable at some time) bring the rooks to the g file, and Black has plenty of play.  Those of us Black players who play the Classical lines and know how to set ut the attacks in these kinds of positions, will find themselves at home in my opinion.

My preference for the Panno vs the Saemisch is another matter and you can find some of my opinions in a post about the saemisch somewhere else.   

Who said there is only one correct way to fight the Saemisch ??  If there is more than one way to fight the Saemisch and fight it hard, I like them.  There is nothing wrong with that.

But now I want to make it really clear that the term best move does not fit here in my opinion.  The only thing that I see is this, on move 9...., if Black wants to play a more strategically complex set up with more chances to win AND lose (due to the complexity of the issue), then 9...h5.

If Black wants to play a game where there is more chances of drawing the game and less chances of winning, because of the lack of strategically complex struggle, then 9 ...Nh5.  After the 9...Nh5, the issue is more forceful from one point of view and more simplified from another point of view.

On  a highly complex strategic struggle there are many many paths one can take that have no obvious tactical consequences and those give the highest chances to win/lose since of the many roads.

Quote:



Is 11.Bf4 not your preference now?  The line I was disscussing is 11.Bf4 and only 11.Bf4.   I was not including 11.Bd3 at all.   

Your post does not seem to want to engage the discussion of the 11.Bf4 line now.  I am thinking that now you want to talk about 11.Bd3.  May I ask why you why are you referring me to another line ?  Or why are we changing the subject, the subject of 11.Bf4?

Another point--

"about 9... Nh5, may i ask you to refer to standard sources like CBM/  NIC/ informator, where you can find "+= " everywhere, everywhere except Gallagher's books of course  "

Inn2, I have been around this game for a long long time (on Tues it will be 22 years of playing seriously).  And it is from my experience that I say that almost all bias players for one side will end their variations on a +/=  of their side.  GM Mikhalevsky, or however you spell his name, runs the website for KID in chesspublishing.com;  and he does this almost all the time.

I search for the truth, and I am not satisfied until I find it and many times even GM's give the wrong evaluation simply because their bias.

BladezII,  about 9... Nh5, may i ask you to refer to standard sources like CBM/  NIC/ informator, where you can find "+= " everywhere, everywhere except Gallagher's books of course   If you understand, i have no wish to give my entire repertoire here. But re your analysis, lets just say Black is always outrating White by 300 points 

edit: Anyway, looking at informator 79, Dreev-Peng Xiaomin went 11. Bd3 f5 12. 0-0 12. 0-0 Nd7 13. Bc2(N) Ne5 14. Ne2! Qh4! 15. f4! (annotations by Dreev), after Black knight moves, White's idea is exchange twice on f5 and play Ng3. So 11. Bd3 is not bad either.  Also in this variation it does not seem scary to allow Black to play f4, because after that White can even attack the f4 pawn.

Quote:


I tend to believe so. After 10.Nxh5 gxh5 White can play Bd3, 0-0, Ne2,Be3,Qd2,Bc2 etc not necessarily in the same order.

Black perhaps has the thematic attack with f5, Qf6-g6. Then what? To complete development black has to perhaps include Na6, Bd7 and start thematic Benoni play in the queen side. If it is nessary to continue play on the queen side, why expose king side so early? 

Of course, the position is rich and black has more than one plan. But, like Inn2, I too would vote for 9...h5

Hi Guys

Welcome on board our ROW game

In our current position after:-

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.f3 0-0 6.Nge2 c5 7.d5 e6 8.Ng3 exd5 9.cxd5 Line

What do you think of Nh5 here - is that inferior to h5?!

Here is our thread where you had some replies from yesterday:-

http://www.chessworld.net/chessclubs/forums_thread_show_one_posteronleftstyle.as...

Best wishes
Tryfon