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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C02: Milner Barry Gambit (Read 30430 times)
condor
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Re: Milner Barry Gambit
Reply #34 - 05/07/07 at 18:57:28
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Instead of 8 0-0, white can play 8 Nc3, attempting to play Qe2, f4, Be3 then 0-0 after black accepts. I haven't found any faults yet but someone like MNb will probably burst my bubble. If so, I guess I'll just have to learn something against the Winawer: chore...
  
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Re: Milner Barry Gambit
Reply #33 - 04/25/07 at 10:06:41
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Regarding the Milner-Barry gambit, at master level all the attention seems to be focused at the moment on 1.e4 c5 2.c3 e6 3.d4 d5 4.e5 Nc6 5.Nf3 Bd7 6.Bd3 cxd4 7.cxd4 Qb6 8.0-0 Nxd4 9.Nbd2 !? which has been setting new problems. Neil McDonald has already spotted this and covered it here at Chess Publishing some time ago, but there have been many new games since then, so hopefully he will give us an update soon.
  
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Re: Milner Barry Gambit
Reply #32 - 04/25/07 at 08:39:41
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tbh I am not quite convinced with the Nb4 idea mentioned above:

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Nc6 5.Nf3 Qb6 6.Bd3 Bd7 7.O-O cxd4 8.cxd4 Nb4 9.Be2 Bb5 10.Nc3 Bxe2 11.Qxe2 & 12.Be3 

The same line can arise from the move-order 6.Bd3 cxd4 7.cxd4 Bd7 8.O-O Nb4, i.e. out of the considered 'main line'.

In my eyes: 8. ... Nb4?! 9. Be2! Bb5!? (the idea is OK) 10. Nc3! BxBe2 11. QxBe2 & 13. Be3 etc. Though White will play with the bad Bishop himself, his space advantage is enough, at least for a safe game.

I also think to remember someone mentioning in a past thread the continuation 8.O-O Nb4 9. Be2 Bb5 10. Bxb5 Qxb5 11.Nc3, which also looked OK for White due to the same reasoning (i.e. space and good posts for the Knights, with the slight con being White's bad Bishop, but in my eyes the space counts..).

And about the 8. Nc3 idea (instead of 8. O-O) in the move-order of the 'main line': I think it works and White limits the possible continuations from Black, however, if you are not afraid of Nb4, you might as well allow it..
  

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MNb
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Re: Milner Barry Gambit
Reply #31 - 04/25/07 at 01:36:11
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I must answer your questions by remembering the short time, I had the M-B on my repertoire. In fact I only had the chance to play it once. My opponent still was sleepy and played ...Qxd4 before ...Bd7. All the other times I saw some deviation or another. According to theory I should have emerged with an edge in all occasions. Fine and true, but I really did not find the resulting positions very inspiring, so I went back to 3.Nc3.
Stuff like 3...c5, 4...Nc6, 5...Nge7 and 6...Nf5 - not my cup of tea.
  

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Re: Milner Barry Gambit
Reply #30 - 04/24/07 at 23:36:12
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Very interesting, MNb -- I didn't know this.

But I had also thought that allowing dxc5 was a bit dubious. I know Black can improve on an old Nimzowitsch--Salve game by inserting ...a7--a5, but I thought this was still rather ropey. Am I wrong? And has Black any (other) respectable ways of declining the M-B Gambit if he wishes?
  
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MNb
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Re: Milner Barry Gambit
Reply #29 - 04/24/07 at 21:10:58
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Well, 7.0-0 allows cxd4 8.cxd4 Nb4!? 9.Be2 Bb5.
Therefor after 6...cxd4 7.cxd4 Bd7 White must play the more precise 8.Nc3 Nxd4 9.Nxd4 Qxd4 10.0-0.
  

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Re: Milner Barry Gambit
Reply #28 - 04/24/07 at 16:28:06
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In essence, White 'declined' it too. He could have chosen 7. O-O, if insisting on the M-B (though 7. dxc5 is considered a good option).
  

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Re: Milner Barry Gambit
Reply #27 - 04/24/07 at 14:04:05
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There is a Milner Barry today at Sigeman. Hector-Carlsson. Carlsson declined it.

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Nc6 5.Nf3 Qb6 6.Bd3 Bd7 7. dxc5 Qc7 8.Qe2 Bxc5 9.Bf4 Nge7 10.b4 Bb6 11.h4 f6
  

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MNb
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Re: Milner Barry Gambit
Reply #26 - 04/23/07 at 22:11:31
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I would rather say marginally better - after 16.Bf2 Nd5 and 17...Bc6 I still don't see it. Neither do I have confidence in White's compensation after 14...Nc6 15.b4 Be7 16.b5 axb5 17.Nxb5 Qb8.
  

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Re: Milner Barry Gambit
Reply #25 - 04/23/07 at 19:56:03
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16 Bf2 is much better than Bd2. After 15 b4 Be7, 16 b5.

MNb wrote on 04/22/07 at 21:07:46:
Two pawns are two pawns. 12.Be3 Qxe5 13.f4 Qd6 14.a3 (looks slower to me than 12.Kh1) d4 15.Ne4 Qb6 16.Bd2 Nd5 17.f5 Be7 and Black's king is close to safety. Not that 14.a3 Nc6 15.b4 Be7 gives me much confidence in White's chances.
But I am curious to learn more.

  
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Re: Milner Barry Gambit
Reply #24 - 04/23/07 at 18:22:39
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Yes, I know what you mean! I have recently had the same experience. In my game, after 10. ... Qxe5 me and my opponent could not hide our smiles; he for having 2 extra pawns and an 'apparently' easy Sunday morning; me for luring him into accepting both pawns of the gambit! My teamates thought I was still asleep (and losing badly), however he soon afterwards had to part with his Queen!

My opinion (so far) is that in OTB games, after 10. ... Qxe5 both sides can easily go wrong as the tactics get wild and play usually develops in an unconventional way. After the more sensible 10. ... a6, White can develop in auto-pilot for quite a few moves, but has greater difficulty in attaining a tangible advantage (White enjoys more space for the pawn, but the position looks equal). Moreover, the position after 10. ... a6 looks more like a French (which I believe is a slight advantage for Black players of the French).

Just my feeling having played the White side for a bit.. chk
  

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Re: Milner Barry Gambit
Reply #23 - 04/23/07 at 14:41:12
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10. Nc3 is certainly the best move.  Personally I think that Black then is wise, at least OTB, to play 10...a6.  White's pawn on e5 does somewhat attone for his lost pawn, but not enough.  It's amazing how many gambit psychotics are happy to emerge from the opening with a game that is not quite losing but somewhat better for Black, just so they can play their pet pawn sacrifice.  I mean, you're White, for crying out loud! 

If you want to gambit your d-pawn and play for a win based on precisely this sort of space advantage, it would be much better to play 1. e4 e6  2. d4 d5  3. e5 c5  4. Nf3 Nc6  5. Bd3 and just let the d-pawn go.  This way of playing against the French is underrated, in my opinion, and Black has no significant alternative to accepting your d-pawn.

10...Qxe5 is said to win, I believe, but I might be reluctant to play it in a practical setting.   

I remember when I was playing 2nd Board for William and Mary and my roommate was playing 1st Board, the day before an important match I briefed him on the White side of the Milner-Barry.  Georgetown's 1st Board fatefully played the French, continued with 10...Ne7  11. Nb5 Qxe5 and got crushed in less than 20 moves.  After the game our coach said that when he saw the position after 11...Qxe5, he thought our 1st Board was losing pitifully.
  

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Re: Milner Barry Gambit
Reply #22 - 04/22/07 at 21:07:46
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Two pawns are two pawns. 12.Be3 Qxe5 13.f4 Qd6 14.a3 (looks slower to me than 12.Kh1) d4 15.Ne4 Qb6 16.Bd2 Nd5 17.f5 Be7 and Black's king is close to safety. Not that 14.a3 Nc6 15.b4 Be7 gives me much confidence in White's chances.
But I am curious to learn more.
  

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condor
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Re: Milner Barry Gambit
Reply #21 - 04/22/07 at 16:05:52
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Mnb, I think white has to play 14 a3 before Bd4; 17...Nb4 is an annoying move which seems to refute 14 Bd4. 14 a3 also supports b4-b5 to break open white's queenside. I hoped to test my ideas in games but so far have not had the opportunity. I still think white has long-term positional compensation in space, mobility and developement.
  
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MNb
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Re: Milner Barry Gambit
Reply #20 - 01/22/07 at 20:22:58
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14.Bd4 seems to be a novelty; other moves have been played without success. Condor's line does not convince me: 19...Bc6 and now what? 17...Nb4 looks much better; but especially 15...Nxe5 16.fxe5 Qc7 17.Rac1 Rc8 leaves White struggling for vague compensation.
Finally there is also 13...Qc7.
So White should be very lucky indeed.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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