Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Kramer Variation: 5.Nge2!? (Read 30422 times)
LaRocque
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 19
Joined: 09/19/07
Re: Kramer Variation: 5.Nge2!?
Reply #10 - 10/01/07 at 12:21:11
Post Tools
JEH wrote on 09/20/07 at 17:56:16:
Best way to meet the Kramer variation is with the Kramer defence. There is a book and DVD out on this. Just look up Kramer vs. Kramer  Wink

What's the "kramer defence"?  Huh
  

« Les pions sont l'âme des échecs. » Philidor
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JEH
God Member
*****
Offline


"Football is like Chess,
only without the dice."

Posts: 1456
Location: Reading
Joined: 09/22/05
Gender: Male
Re: Kramer Variation: 5.Nge2!?
Reply #9 - 09/20/07 at 17:56:16
Post Tools
Best way to meet the Kramer variation is with the Kramer defence. There is a book and DVD out on this. Just look up Kramer vs. Kramer  Wink
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
LaRocque
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 19
Joined: 09/19/07
Re: Kramer Variation: 5.Nge2!?
Reply #8 - 09/20/07 at 17:33:40
Post Tools
There is a good book about the Kramer variation (also called the Hungarian attack) from Everyman: "easy guide to the Nge2 King's Indian", Forintos and Haag (2000)
  

« Les pions sont l'âme des échecs. » Philidor
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Hotspur
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1
Joined: 11/21/06
Re: Kramer Variation: 5.Nge2!?
Reply #7 - 12/31/06 at 05:38:31
Post Tools
Ponamariov used this variation to great effect fairly recently and against pretty good opposition:
[Event "10th Petr Izmailov Mem"]
[Site "Tomsk RUS"]
[Date "2006.07.15"]
[Round "6"]
[White "Ponomariov, R"]
[Black "Bologan, V"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2721"]
[BlackElo "2645"]
[ECO "E70"]
[Opening "King's Indian, Kramer System"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nge2 O-O 6. Ng3 c6 7. Be2 a6 8. Be3
Nbd7 9. O-O e5 10. d5 cxd5 11. cxd5 h5 12. Rc1 Nh7 13. Qd2 h4 14. Nh1 f5 15.
exf5 gxf5 16. f4 exf4 17. Bxf4 Ne5 18. Nf2 Bd7 19. Kh1 Rc8 20. Nh3 b5 21. a3
Qf6 22. Be3 Ng6 23. Bh5 Ne5 24. Be2 Ng6 25. Nf4 Nxf4 26. Bxf4 Qg6 27. Bd3 Rfe8
28. Qf2 Nf6 29. Qxh4 Ne4 30. Nxe4 fxe4 31. Be2 Bf6 32. Bh5 Qf5 33. Qg3+ Kh7 34.
Bxe8 Rxe8 35. Bxd6 Qg6 36. Rc7 1-0

[Event "10th Petr Izmailov Mem"]
[Site "Tomsk RUS"]
[Date "2006.07.15"]
[Round "7"]
[White "Ponomariov, R"]
[Black "Kasimdzhanov, R"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[WhiteElo "2721"]
[BlackElo "2672"]
[ECO "E70"]
[Opening "King's Indian, Kramer System"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nge2 O-O 6. Ng3 e5 7. d5 a5 8. Be2
Na6 9. Bg5 h6 10. Be3 Nh7 11. Qd2 h5 12. O-O-O Bd7 13. Kb1 Nc5 14. Nf1 Na4 15.
Nb5 f5 16. Qc2 Nc5 17. Nd2 b6 18. f3 Bf6 19. exf5 Bxf5 20. Ne4 Nxe4 21. fxe4
Bd7 22. Rhf1 Bg5 23. Rxf8+ Kxf8 24. Bg1 Kg7 25. a3 Nf6 26. Ka2 Rc8 27. Rf1 Qe7
28. Bd3 h4 29. b4 axb4 30. axb4 c6 31. Nc3 cxd5 32. cxd5 h3 33. Kb2 Ng4 34. Rf3
hxg2 35. Qxg2 Bh6 36. h3 Nf6 37. Bxb6 Nh5 38. Ba6 Rb8 39. Ba5 Nf4 40. Qf1 Qh4
41. Qc4 Rf8 42. Qc7 Rf7 43. Qxd6 Bxh3 44. Bd8 Qh5 45. Rg3 Kh7 46. Kb3 Bg4 47.
Ka4 Bd7+ 48. Bb5 Bxb5+ 49. Kxb5 Qh2 50. Rg5 Bxg5 51. Bxg5 Ne2 52. Nxe2 Qxe2+
53. Kb6 Qxe4 54. Qc5 Qg4 55. Be7 e4 56. d6 Qe6 57. Bg5 Qd7 58. Be7 Qe6 59. Bg5
Qd7 60. Be7 Qe6 61. Bg5 Qd7 62. Be7 Qe6 1/2-1/2 

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BladezII
Senior Member
****
Offline


Member of chesspublishing
.com and STC Club

Posts: 409
Joined: 11/01/04
Re: Kramer Variation: 5.Nge2!?
Reply #6 - 07/02/06 at 05:42:07
Post Tools
That's commenting on one of the approaches.  Fair enough.  What about the others, like the reaction by White in White's other two or three games I posted?  What about those positions?
  

I am a participating member of chesspublishing.com since 1998.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
IMRichardPalliser
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 305
Location: York
Joined: 03/23/04
Re: Kramer Variation: 5.Nge2!?
Reply #5 - 06/14/06 at 11:20:19
Post Tools
Fair enough, but against the Hebden/Gallagher system (where Black delays castling), surely White should allow ...b5 and play for a quick f4 and e5, rather than Pert's ridiculous Bf4?
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
MrET
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 7
Location: New Zealand
Joined: 06/06/06
Re: Kramer Variation: 5.Nge2!?
Reply #4 - 06/07/06 at 07:37:19
Post Tools
Interesting stuff.  I don't think Nge2 is much of a threat, but it's a good line for ICC blitz.  Seems to come as a surprise to most Blacks, and White's play is quite mechanical.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BladezII
Senior Member
****
Offline


Member of chesspublishing
.com and STC Club

Posts: 409
Joined: 11/01/04
Re: Kramer Variation: 5.Nge2!?
Reply #3 - 02/17/06 at 20:22:03
Post Tools
If you think this is a problem, my advise and GM Gallagher's advise is don't worry about it.  It is not a problem.  First because the percentage is very small, second the structures between this and the Saemisch for Black are the same and the tools are the same and the maneuvers and/or aims are very similar or the same.  GM Gallagher does address the issue of White trying to switch back to the saemish very well in his book.

In case White plays 6.g3, the fact that Black has played ...a6 now is not an issue either.  Black plays ...a6 is all or almost all his set ups vs the fianchetto.  For example 6.g3 0-0 7.Bg2 Nbd7 and we are in home territory of most or all set ups vs the fianchetto lines in the KID.

Angry
  

I am a participating member of chesspublishing.com since 1998.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Glenn Snow
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1720
Location: Franklin
Joined: 09/27/03
Gender: Male
Re: Kramer Variation: 5.Nge2!?
Reply #2 - 02/15/06 at 16:42:32
Post Tools
Keep in mind though that White can also answer 5...a6 with either 6.Be3 or 6.g3.  This can be at least a slight problem if this doesn't fit in with one's repertoire.  For example, those that answer the Saemisch 5.Be3 with 5...c5.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BladezII
Senior Member
****
Offline


Member of chesspublishing
.com and STC Club

Posts: 409
Joined: 11/01/04
Re: Kramer Variation: 5.Nge2!?
Reply #1 - 02/15/06 at 05:48:01
Post Tools
Be careful with stats.

Against those who don't know what's exactly going on in this system and how it happens this system does well.  Now, the truth about what happens when Black knows how White is weak and how White is not too flexible, then ...  another story.

Delaying castling, starting operations on the queenside, and a timely hitting the center works well, really well.

First game in point is a nice display by someone who is a KID guru and has been biten by this system before and thus learned from experience, GM Hebden.

[Event "Gibraltar Masters"]
[Site "Caleta"]
  [Date "2005.01.27"]   
[Round "3"]
[White "Pert, Richard G"]
[Black "Hebden, Mark"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "E70"]
[WhiteElo "2417"]
[BlackElo "2521"]
[PlyCount "82"]
[EventDate "2005.01.25"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "10"]
[EventCountry "ENG"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2005.03.03"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nge2 a6 6. Ng3 h5 7. Be2 c6 8. Bf4
Qa5 9. Bd2 e5 10. c5 h4 11. Nb5 axb5 12. Bxa5 hxg3 13. fxg3 Rxa5 14. cxd6 Nxe4
15. O-O Ra4 16. d5 Rd4 17. Qe1 Nxd6 18. Rd1 O-O 19. Qa5 Nc4 20. Bxc4 bxc4 21.
d6 Bg4 22. Rde1 Nd7 23. h3 Be6 24. Rd1 e4 25. Qb4 b5 26. Rxd4 Bxd4+ 27. Kh2 Ne5
28. Qd2 Nd3 29. Re1 Bd5 30. Re2 Rd8 31. h4 Rxd6 32. g4 Bxb2 33. h5 b4 34. Qe3
Be5+ 35. g3 b3 36. axb3 cxb3 37. Qb6 b2 38. Qb8+ Kg7 39. h6+ Kxh6 40. Kg1 Kg7
41. Rh2 Rd8 0-1

Second game, same person playing Black, better play by White--

[Event "Gibraltar Masters"]
[Site "Caleta"]
[Date "2005.01.31"]
[Round "7"]
[White "Van den Bersselaar, Jeroen"]
[Black "Hebden, Mark"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "E70"]
[WhiteElo "2211"]
[BlackElo "2521"]
[PlyCount "110"]
[EventDate "2005.01.25"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "10"]
[EventCountry "ENG"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2005.03.03"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nge2 a6 6. Ng3 c6 7. Be2 b5 8. O-O
Nbd7 9. Be3 O-O 10. c5 dxc5 11. dxc5 e5 12. a4 b4 13. Na2 a5 14. Nc1 h5 15. f3
h4 16. Nh1 Nh5 17. g3 hxg3 18. hxg3 Qe7 19. Qd6 Qxd6 20. cxd6 Rd8 21. Nb3 Bf8
22. Rfd1 Ba6 23. Kf1 Ng7 24. Rac1 Bxe2+ 25. Kxe2 Ra6 26. Nf2 Ne6 27. f4 c5 28.
fxe5 Nxe5 29. Nxc5 Nxc5 30. Rxc5 f6 31. b3 Bxd6 32. Rcd5 Nf7 33. Bf4 Kf8 34.
Ng4 Be7 35. Ne3 Rxd5 36. Rxd5 Bd8 37. Nc4 Ke7 38. Rb5 Ke6 39. Rb7 g5 40. Bc7
Bxc7 41. Rxc7 Ne5 42. Nxe5 Kxe5 43. Ke3 Kd6 44. Rf7 Ke6 45. Rc7 Rd6 46. Rc5 Rd1
47. Rxa5 Rb1 48. Ra6+ Kf7 49. Ra7+ Kg6 50. g4 Rxb3+ 51. Kf2 Rb2+ 52. Kf3 b3 53.
Rb7 Rb1 54. a5 b2 55. Kg2 Ra1 1/2-1/2


Here White is one of the experts in this line, who has scored some very impressive wins with this system.
Black uses the same system of delayed castling, action on Q-side, etc.

[Event "Wch U26 (Men)"]
[Site "Rotterdam"]
[Date "1998.08.??"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Liardet,Fabrice"]
[Black "Tzermiadianos,Andreas"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "E70"]
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nge2 a6 6.Ng3 c6 7.Be2 b5 8.cxb5 axb5 
9.b4 0-0 10.Rb1 Nbd7 11.h4 h5 12.Bg5 Nb6 13.Qd2 Be6 14.Bh6 Ra3 15.Bxg7 Kxg7 16.0-0 Qa8 
17.Rb2 Rxc3 18.Qxc3 Na4 19.Qd2 Nxb2 20.Qxb2 Rb8 21.e5 dxe5 22.dxe5 Nd7 23.Qd4 Qxa2 24.Rd1 Ra8 
25.Qf4 Qb2 26.Nxh5+ Kg8 27.Bg4 Ra1 28.Rxa1 Qxa1+ 29.Kh2 Bxg4 30.Qxg4 Qxe5+ 31.g3 Nf8 32.Nf4 Qd4 
33.Qf3 e5 34.Nh3 Qd5 35.Qf6 Qe6 36.Qg5 Qd6 37.h5 Qxb4 38.Qf6 Nh7 39.Qxe5 gxh5 40.Qe8+ Nf8 
41.Qxc6 Ne6 42.Qa8+ Kg7 43.Qf3 Qg4 44.Qd5 b4 45.Qe5+ Kg8 46.Qb8+ Kh7 47.Qb5 Kg6 48.Qd5 h4 
49.gxh4 Qxh3+ 0-1


Finally, guru with the white system meets guru with the Black system... for the second time !  And for the second time he loses.  Black get's play on all sides of the board (eventually) and White never really got his Kingside action to be significant.

Liardet -- Gallagher, Lenk 1998
The game is in Gallgher's book fully annotated.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nge2 a6 6. Ng3 c6 7. Be2 b5 8. cxb5
axb5 9. b4 O-O 10. Rb1 Nbd7 11. O-O Bb7 12. Bg5 h6 13. Be3 e5 14. Qc2 Qe7 15.
Rfd1 exd4 16. Bxd4 h5 17. f3 Ne5 18. Nf1 h4 19. Qd2 Rfe8 20. Bf2 Nh5 21. g4
hxg3 22. hxg3 Rad8 23. g4 Nf6 24. Ng3 Qe6 25. Kg2 d5 26. g5 Nxf3 27. Qf4 Nxe4
28. Ncxe4 dxe4 29. Nxe4 Nd4 30. Bxd4 Rxd4 31. Bf3 Qxa2+ 32. Kg1 c5 33. Nf6+
Bxf6 34. Qxf6 Rg4+ 35. Kf1 Qc4+ 36. Kf2 Re2+ 

0-1

Angry


  

I am a participating member of chesspublishing.com since 1998.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jerry_Taylor
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 24
Location: Alexandria
Joined: 01/16/03
Kramer Variation: 5.Nge2!?
02/15/06 at 03:13:47
Post Tools
Does anyone have any experience playing with/against the Kramer Variation (1.d4,Nf6 2.c4,g7 3.Nc3,Bg7 4.e4,d6 5.Nge2!?).  It seems to score reasonably well, holds out the possibility of some straight-forward, easy-to-play White kingside assaults centering upon h2-h4-h5, and kills Black's kingside options.  Black's best option seems to be immediate and energetic queenside play, but even so, White appears to stand OK.

How often do KID players see this?  What are the latest developments in this line?  Should I adopt this as White?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo