1. d4 e6 ; 2. c4 Ktc6 ; 3. Ktf3 Ktf6 can be viewed as a slight concession by White, even if one considers 1. d4 Ktf6 ; 2. c4 e6 3. Ktf3 Ktc6 to be a lesser alternative to a QID.

In the Two Knight's Indian, for example, the critical 1. d4 Ktf6 ; 2. c4 Ktc6 ; 3. Ktc3 e5 ; 4. d5 Kte7 ; 5. h4 , 5. g3 Ktg6 ; 6. h4 and 5. Ktf3 Ktg6 ; 6. a3 must be dealt with. Also, 1. d4 e6 ; 2. c4 Ktc6 ; 3. d5 and 3. Ktc3 Bb4 ; 3. d5 in my opinion have less bite than 1. d4 Ktf6 ; 2. c4 Ktc6 ; 3. d5. So to say that 3. Ktf3 against the UD is the best option for White is already stating that it is a superior defence to the others, something I would myself not dare to hint at. 

As for independant tries, there is is only 3. ...Bb4+, and even this transposes to Keres Def-Bogo Indian territory following 4. Bd2 or 4. Ktbd2. But the justification of Black's move-order is that 1. d4 e6 ; 2. c4 Bb4+ ; 3. Bd2 a5  allows 4. e4 and 4. Ktc3 d6 (4. ...Ktf6 ; 5. Bg5) ; 5. e4 among others. The idea is to wait for Ktf3 before playing Bb4+. 

P.S. One more idea in the 3. a3 line is to try a "Modern Defence" approach with 3. ...g6 ; 4. e4 Bg7 ; 5. Ktc3 Ktge7 ; 6. Ktf3 0-0 intending ...d6 and ...f5 preceded or not by ...e5.

Well, I have nothing against the idea, but I'm afraid I just haven't played any games which are of sufficient theoretical interest to be used as "models", the main reason being that I only played a handful of serious games this past year. But I will start a new thread with the opening moves of my recent -unsatisfactory- attempt to play the UD vs 1. c4

As soon as I come up with a worthy example (not necessarily from my own practice, since a few of my aquaintances have also picked up the UD), I'll send it in for analysis. Until then, we still have a discussion going on here, Frendo. how about some thoughts ?

Dear Frendo,

 Sorry. Somehow I had missed your last post here. I actually came back to look at this variation after following the opening moves of the Classical Dutch game-thread between HGMan and MNb (1. d4 f5 ; 2. g3 Ktf6 ; 3. Bg2 e6 ; 4. Ktf3 Be7 ; 5. 0-0 0-0 ; 6. b4 d6 ; 7. Bb2 Qe8 ; 8. Ktbd2 Ktc6 by transposition).
 
In the line we have been discussing so far 4. ...d6 ; 5. Bb2 Ktf6 ; 6. Ktf3 , I find the threat of 7. d5 to be rather annoying. So I might try 6. ...Kte7 ; 7. g3 (other ideas?) with a further split :
- 7. ...Ktg6 would justify Black's play in that he has transfered his Q Knight to the Kingside and has lent some renewed support to -e5. He must however now reckon with 8. h4 Be7 ; 9. h5 (9. Bg2 0-0 ; 10. h5 Kth8 followed by ...Ktf7 is not a problem) Ktf8 ; 10. Bg2 Kt8d7 when he has lost quite a bit of time himself and remains rather cramped, but then White has seriously overextended his position.
- 7. ...g6  ; 8. Bg2 Bg7 ; 9. 0-0 0-0 leaves White with strong control of -e5, but Black has play based on ...h6 , ...g5 and ...Ktg6.

Going back a move, 5. ...e5 was to be considered, intending 6. de Ktxe5.

But I'm not convinced that my initial suggestion of 4. ...d6 was best. Instead, Black can try 4. ...Be7 ; 5. Bb2 Bf6!? or 5. ...Ktf6 ; 6. Ktf3 0-0 and if given the chance 7. ...Qe8 when he truly will be a tempo up on HGMan-MNb.

If 4. b4 turns out to be unsatisfactory, there will be some other plans based on implementing d5 to be explored. But black will always have the moves 3. ...Ktf6 and 3. ...d5 (perhaps also 3. ...d6 and 3. ...Be7) to fall back on, so on these grounds alone, I think 3. a3 can hardly be considered critical, but it seems to lead to lines which contain a fair amount of [i]finesses[/i].
                                   
              Regards,
                 Hubert

P.S. Other opinions are welcome of course. I would especially like to have MNb's impressions on the "Dutch" lines as he is our resident Iljin-Zhenevsky expert.

5. Bb2 Ktf6 intending 5. d5 Kte5 

I must say I would be rather perplexed if White was unable to prove an edge with 3. Ktc3 Bb4 ; 4. e4, only to claim it with 3. a3 f5 ; 4. b4 ...

Dear Glenn,

Thank you for your suggestion of 4. b4. Now we really are in unknown territory, including for me. I mentioned earlier that ...a6 should be considered in response to this advance, but if it's played so early, I think I would ignore it with something like 4. ...d6 ; 5. b5 Kta5, while the blitz player's move would be 4. ...Be7.

I haven't had the opportunity to play the UD in a standard game recently, but I was able to wheel it out twice in a rapid tournament. I'll just give the opening moves of these games here. In the first, I managed to lose on time in a position with two clear extra pawns. In both, Black had the advantage straight out of the opening.

Belkhodja - Deker 1. c4 Ktc6 (I played this for the first time) ; 2. d4 e6 (2. ...e5) ; 3. d5 Kte5 ; 4. e4 Bc5 (4. ...ed) ; 5. Ktc3 d6 ; 6. b4 Bb6 (6. ...Bxf2) ; 7. Kta4 Qf6 
(7. ...Qh4 /7. ...Bxf2) ; 8. Ktxb6 ab ; 9. Bd2 ed ; 10. cd Kte7 ; 10. Ktf3 Ktxf3 ; 11. gf Ktg6 ; 12. Be2 0-0 ; 13. Qc1 Qe5 ; 14. Bc3 Qf4 ; 15. Qxf4 Ktxf4 ; 16. Rg1 f6 ; 17. Kd2 Rf7 ; 18. Be1 f5 ; 19. a4? fe ; 20. fe Kth3

NN - Deker 1. d4 e6 ; 2. c4 Ktc6 ; 3. Ktc3 Bb4 ; 4. e4 Qh4 ; 5. Qd3 f5 ; 6. ef Ktxd4 ; 
7. fe Ktf6 ; 8. Be3 Ktxe6 ; 9. Be2?! (9. Ktf3) Ktc5 ; 10. Qd4 Qxd4 ; 11. Bxd4 Kte6 ; 
12. Be3 Kte4 ; 13. Rc1 Ktxc3 ; 14. bc Bc5 ; 15. Bd2 0-0 ; 16. Ktf3 d6 (16. ...Ktf4) ; 
17. 0-0 Ktf4 ; 18. Re1 Ktxe2 ; 19. Rxe2 Bg4


                                                 Regards,
                                                     UD  

Going back to the discussion of what constitutes a "consistent" repertoire, I forgot to mention that after 1. Ktf3 Ktf6 ; 2. g3 White has commited himself to a Reti, and White's first move can no longer be considered "a move order trick". Now for example, 2. ...c6 ; 3. Bg2 d5 ; 4. c4 Bg4 or 4. ...Bf5 leads to positions from a totally independant opening, and Black should get over his wish to play his favorite QP defence.

Dear Craig,

In the standard Dutch, 1. d4 f5 ; 2. g3 the Black KB never gets to -b4. 
In the Deferred Dutch, 1. d4 e6 ; 2. c4 f5 ; 3. g3 Ktf6 ; 4. Bg2 Bb4+, White can play 5. Ktd2 with good chances for an advantage thanks partly to his Bishop pair.

In the Classical (or Iljin-Zhenevsky) Variation 1. d4 f5 ; 2. g3 Ktf6 ; 3. Bg2 e6 ; 4. Ktf3 d6 ; 5. 0-0 Be7 ; 6. c4 0-0 ; 7. Ktc3 a5 ; 8. Qc2 Ktc6 is a a main line (I doubt 9. a3 has ever been played here), while the continuation 7. ...Kte4 ; 8. Qc2 Ktxc3 ; 9. bc Ktc6 (as discussed in the thread "Classical Dutch/IZ game question" also looks perfectly valid.
If White insists on playing b4, then surely Rb1 is a better way of preparing it than a3, as then ...a6 is answered by a4 without loss of tempo.

I agree with your view that 1. e4 Ktc6 ; 2. d4 offers White chances for an advantage, but 1. d4 Ktc6 should really be met by 2. d5! and Black is in grave danger of being run off the board.

                                                                           Regards,
                                                                               Hubert