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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Uberdeker Defence (Read 74034 times)
Glenn Snow
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Re: Uberdeker Defence
Reply #5 - 03/20/06 at 17:49:06
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Quote:
"As regards Qd3, I believe a move ceases to be dubious once it forced! ", Uberdeker.


Yes, that certainly makes sense but if such a move is forced it seems something probably has already gone wrong.  Maybe this is one of those exceptions where a forced/awkward looking move still gives chances for advantage, but I rather doubt it (and you seem to believe Black is doing well after Qd3 also).

I'm actually surprised this thread hasn't been given more attention since there have been much discussion on 1.d4 Nc6 and the Uberdeker seems to be a clear improvement on that.  Perhaps those who were attracted to 1...Nc6 don't like the idea of learning a defence to 1.d4 e6 2.e4.

(PS--Why don't you register Mr.Deker?)
  
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Uberdeker(Guest)
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Re: Uberdeker Defence
Reply #4 - 03/20/06 at 00:05:16
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The immediate 3. e4 gives Black several good options. Indeed 3. ...Qh4 is again possible, 3. ...e5 should be compared with the theoretical 1. c4 Ktf6 ; 2. Ktc3 e6 ; 3. e4 Ktc6 ; 4. d4 e5 (the difference should favor Black who has options of ...Ktge7) and 3. ...d5 (my usual choice) ; 4. cd ed ; 5. e5 doesn't hit a knight as in 1. c4 Ktf6 ; 2. Ktc3 e6 ; 3. e4 d5 ; 4. cd ed ; 5. e5 Ktfd7 (5. ...d4 is better perhaps) ;
6. d4
As regards Qd3, I believe a move ceases to be dubious once it forced!

Oh, and you were looking for other examples of ...Qh4 : in the Scotch 1. e4 e5 ; 2. Ktf3 Ktc6 ; 3. d4 ed 4. Ktxd4 Qh4 forces White to give up the -e pawn, but after 5. Ktb5 Qxe4+ ; 6. Be2 Kd8, he has rather alarming compensation. Certainly more frightening than 1. d4 e6 ; 2. c4 Ktc6 ; 3. Ktc3 Bb4 ; 4. e4 Qh4 ;
5. Ktf3 Qxe4 ; 6. Be2 d6 Black's Queen is awkwardly placed, but he is solid and has no weaknesses.

As soon as I play a decent standard game with my defence, I'll transcribe it here. Until then further questions/comments are most welcome. 

                                                           UD
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Uberdeker Defence
Reply #3 - 03/19/06 at 20:35:48
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"However, just as in the English Defence, it is only logical that a critical test must be the seizure of the centre, as Black has failed to prevent this with 1. ...Ktf6.", Uberdeker


Yes, good point.  In fact it may turn out that 1.d4 e6 2.c4 Nc6 3.e4, without first inserting Nc3 and ...Bb4 is the critical test as in the English Defence.  Perhaps ...Qh4 is again the preferred method for Black and once again White doesn't seem to have a comfortable method of holding his center together.  It's difficult for me to believe in the artificial looking Qd3.  Then, again as I've mentioned in the BDG post, we should trust variations and not appearances.
  
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Uberdeker(Guest)
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Re: Uberdeker Defence
Reply #2 - 03/19/06 at 11:23:17
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Dear Glenn,

  Thanks for your interest. Of course, since there is no theory attached to this defence yet, it is rather difficult to point to a main line.
However, just as in the English Defence, it is only logical that a critical test must be the seizure of the centre, as Black has failed to prevent this with 1. ...Ktf6. Other critical moves are 3. d5 and 3. Ktc3 Bb4 d5 but in my opinion these are less dangerous than against the immediate 1. ...Ktc6.
Actually White's "Nimzo" options are considerably reduced: 4.Qc2 hangs the -d pawn, as does 4. Qb3 and 4. Bg5 is also prevented.
Indeed as you point out, the ...f5 option is very usefull as in the lines 4. e3 f5 and 4. a3 Bxc3 ; 5. bc f5.
I usually meet g3 with ...Rb8 and ...b5 although I haven't investigated this as thoroughly as the rest. As for 4. Ktf3 Ktf6, I consider this to be a perfectly satisfactory Nimzo for Black.
I'll provide more extensive analysis and answer any question you may have soon.

                                                                                regards,
                                                                                       UD
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Uberdeker Defence
Reply #1 - 03/18/06 at 18:40:36
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I'm afraid I don't have any analysis to add but did want to comment that I found this opening rather interesting!  I did a search on chessbase.com and found 73 games but none played by strong players that I recognized (playing with Black anyway).  It was nice to see another example of an early Qh4 move by Black.  The only other example that immediately springs to my mind is in the English Defence (I'm sure there are others, but I just can't remember them right now.)

I really doubt that 4.e4 is actually the best move though.  As White I would investigate 4.a3,4.Nf3,4.g3, 4.Qc2 and 4.e3.  I suppose all of the moves that White combats the Nimzo-Indian with (which, as Uberdeker points out, it can transpose too).  Black has lost some flexibility with his early queen-knight move but has gained some other options such as ...f5, and early queen moves (as in Uberdeker's main line with 4.e4).

Anyone got an opinion on the best way to fight for a White advantage?
  
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Uberdeker(Guest)
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Uberdeker Defence
03/15/06 at 17:58:37
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My fighting defence is akin to the following : Nimzo/Bogo/Q's Indians, Two-Knights' Indian,  English Defence, 1. d4 Ktc6 (don't know the name of this one), but I have reasons to prefer it above all these.
Of course, as with The English Defence, Keres Defence and Deferred Dutch, a repertoire containing the French is a prerequisite, but you are avoiding the KIA and other bothersome deviations.

Here is just a sample variation : 
1. d4 e6 ; 2. c4 Ktc6 ; 3. Ktc3 Bb4 ; 4. e4 Qh4! ; 5. Qd3 f5 ; 6. ef Ktxd4!? (6. ...Qxd4) ; 7. fe Ktf6 ; 8. Be3 (anyone brave enough to play 8. ed ?) Ktxe6 ; 9. Ktf3 Qe4 with a mess...


Refutations welcome!
  
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