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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 4.Qd3 in the Veresov (Read 30201 times)
Vass
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Re: 4.Qd3 in the Veresov
Reply #18 - 11/18/14 at 09:47:45
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Mainline_Novelty wrote on 11/17/14 at 22:06:16:
During math class today (I'm such a good student) I was wondering about 4 Qd3 h6 5 Bxf6!? Nxf6 6 e4 (getting the break in before Black prevents it with ...c6/...Qa5; i.e. 5 Bh4(?!) c6! when 6 e4? loses to Noah's Ark-esque tactics) 6...de 7 Nxe4 Nxe4 8 Qxe4, although admittedly I haven't really looked at this seriously at all yet. Sure the position's relatively simplified and Black has the b-pair, but I was thinking I could stop ...0-0 with the Bd3/Qe4 battery and try to hold up ...c5 and ...e5 with some sort of d-file pressure. From what I can tell, it's fairly unexplored (which is what I'm looking for in a surprise weapon), and I don't think White is worse (White doesn't seem to have lost this position in practice yet, although of course that stat isn't so useful), although the question is if I can play for a win from such a position..

It's interesting, but not groundbreaking. If both players know their stuff, the game can develop itself in the following direction:
  
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Re: 4.Qd3 in the Veresov
Reply #17 - 11/17/14 at 22:06:16
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During math class today (I'm such a good student) I was wondering about 4 Qd3 h6 5 Bxf6!? Nxf6 6 e4 (getting the break in before Black prevents it with ...c6/...Qa5; i.e. 5 Bh4(?!) c6! when 6 e4? loses to Noah's Ark-esque tactics) 6...de 7 Nxe4 Nxe4 8 Qxe4, although admittedly I haven't really looked at this seriously at all yet. Sure the position's relatively simplified and Black has the b-pair, but I was thinking I could stop ...0-0 with the Bd3/Qe4 battery and try to hold up ...c5 and ...e5 with some sort of d-file pressure. From what I can tell, it's fairly unexplored (which is what I'm looking for in a surprise weapon), and I don't think White is worse (White doesn't seem to have lost this position in practice yet, although of course that stat isn't so useful), although the question is if I can play for a win from such a position..
  

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Benoniac
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Re: 4.Qd3 in the Veresov
Reply #16 - 11/30/13 at 20:52:01
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Thanks for sharing, Vass!  Smiley

And just as I thought this possibility is not mentioned by Davies in " The Veresov", as far as I can tell.  I think your 8.a4!? gives white some long term edge to work with against this ...g6 system.

Another possibility is playing a quick f2-f4, Qd1-e1-h4 I guess. At least in OTB play. 

Thanks again.

Ben

  

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Vass
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Re: 4.Qd3 in the Veresov
Reply #15 - 11/30/13 at 20:21:17
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No, it's not.  Smiley

  
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Re: 4.Qd3 in the Veresov
Reply #14 - 11/30/13 at 20:12:54
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Vass wrote on 09/16/11 at 13:31:51:
Having studied very carefully Veresov with Qd3 I came to a conclusion that the most appealing answer for black seems to be the setup with g7-g6. No matter how I tried to find even a tiny edge for white...it was all in vain. Black has a comfortable setup and counterattacks very successively on the queen's side where white castles long. So I stuck to the positions where white is developping slowly after Bc1-g5, e2-e3 and Bf1-d3...treating the position just like I play Chigorin with black but with a move up. In the main line of this setup white is trying to push e3-e4 no matter what...but it gives only a full equality, so I rediscovered an idea with a2-a4-a5 (instead of e3-e4) against a7-b6-c5-Bb7 formation in the critical position of this variation. The last corr game of mine (not finished yet) in which I executed this plan will bring me a full point very soon.  Wink
So, my conclusion is that white can obtain a small edge only in the main line.   Cool


Interesting stuff, Vass. One has to agree with Davies that the modern treatment of playing the Veresov is the move e2-e3 in the two ML. Talking about: 

1) 1.d4-Nf6 2.Nc3-d5 3.Bg5-Nbd7 4.e3!? 

2) 1.d4-Nf6 2.Nc3-Nf6 3.Bg5-c5 4.e3!? 

In addition, I find the plan : e2-e3, and Bf1-d3 to oppose black`s variation(s) with ...Bf5 very interesting. If black takes on d3, white can take with the c2-pawn to create some imbalance. 
  
Is it too much to ask if you can show us the game you were talking aboout?

Ben
  

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Re: 4.Qd3 in the Veresov
Reply #13 - 10/10/11 at 07:58:35
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Hi all I am playing the Veresov in correspondence in ICCF Veterans World Cup World Cup and
ICCF Diamond Jubilee World Cup. Obviously I cannot post on the forum about games that are in progress but I will say that the Qd3
Lines can be just as much down the rabbit hole as the f3 lines.



  

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Re: 4.Qd3 in the Veresov
Reply #12 - 09/18/11 at 01:39:47
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Glenn Snow wrote on 09/15/11 at 18:35:55:
Indeed! On more than one occasion I lured 1 e4 players onto Chigorin territory by playing 3 a3 or 3 Bg5 + 4 a3 (a useful move in various lines!)  Wink


Can you provide a few examples of your idea in action? Thank you in advance! Good Chess! Keith
  
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Re: 4.Qd3 in the Veresov
Reply #11 - 09/16/11 at 13:31:51
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Having studied very carefully Veresov with Qd3 I came to a conclusion that the most appealing answer for black seems to be the setup with g7-g6. No matter how I tried to find even a tiny edge for white...it was all in vain. Black has a comfortable setup and counterattacks very successively on the queen's side where white castles long. So I stuck to the positions where white is developping slowly after Bc1-g5, e2-e3 and Bf1-d3...treating the position just like I play Chigorin with black but with a move up. In the main line of this setup white is trying to push e3-e4 no matter what...but it gives only a full equality, so I rediscovered an idea with a2-a4-a5 (instead of e3-e4) against a7-b6-c5-Bb7 formation in the critical position of this variation. The last corr game of mine (not finished yet) in which I executed this plan will bring me a full point very soon.  Wink
So, my conclusion is that white can obtain a small edge only in the main line.   Cool
  
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Re: 4.Qd3 in the Veresov
Reply #10 - 09/15/11 at 22:07:03
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Glenn Snow wrote on 09/15/11 at 18:35:55:
Of course now there's the book A Ferocious Opening Repertoirewhich I think covers both f3 and Qd3 mentioned above.  I still don't completely trust this stuff but I suppose that' not the point.  I also think it could be helpful to compare some of the positions from 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nc6 from Christoph Scheerer's  (Wisnewski at the time ) Play 1...Nc6!.


Indeed! On more than one occasion I lured 1 e4 players onto Chigorin territory by playing 3 a3 or 3 Bg5 + 4 a3 (a useful move in various lines!)  Wink
  

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Re: 4.Qd3 in the Veresov
Reply #9 - 09/15/11 at 18:35:55
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Of course now there's the book A Ferocious Opening Repertoirewhich I think covers both f3 and Qd3 mentioned above.  I still don't completely trust this stuff but I suppose that' not the point.  I also think it could be helpful to compare some of the positions from 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nc6 from Christoph Scheerer's  (Wisnewski at the time ) Play 1...Nc6!.
  
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Re: 4.Qd3 in the Veresov
Reply #8 - 09/15/11 at 15:00:18
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I agree with MnB's example and the students i have shown the veresov all play the queens gambit if 1......d5 shows up.  it seems much more solid than playing the knight out to c3 and I dont usually recommend gambits to the youngsters.   

Also the BDG would be something you might put in, but it takes quite a bit of book knowledge to get anything out of it as white.  Good luck and welcome to the wonderful world of the veresov.
  
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Re: 4.Qd3 in the Veresov
Reply #7 - 03/24/06 at 21:14:40
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@CraigEvans
"It's a fairly major switch to be going from 1.e4 to 1.d4"
If you ever seriously consider this: after 1.d4 d5 2.c4 White can play in KG-style, as soon as Black plays dxc4. No details here, as this is way off-topic. Something for a new thread?
  

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Re: 4.Qd3 in the Veresov
Reply #6 - 03/24/06 at 16:32:50
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Hello,

1. d4 d5 2. Sc3 Sf6 3. Lg5 Sbd7 4. Dd3 e6  5. e4 pxp 6.Nxp  does not look like a particularly dangerous line of the French. Didn't stop Hector winning though...

Bye John S
  
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Re: 4.Qd3 in the Veresov
Reply #5 - 03/24/06 at 11:36:09
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What could be more appealing than a suicidal move like 6.g4? This is real chess!!

3...Bf5 doesn't worry me, 4.f3 looks playable, where 4...c5 looks like the only move which should cause concern to white (I wonder if white can then continue in a sort of albinesque way with 5.e4 anyway?!). Otherwise something like 4...e6 5.e4 dxe4 6.g4 is taking us back towards BDG lines which should, at the very least, be fun.
3...g6 4.Bxf6 ef 5.Qd3 intending O-O-O and a kingside pawnstorm looks fun as well - objectively at GM level it might tend towards equality, but at the 2000 level I can imagine it being a pretty good weapon. Hector certainly scores quite well with it, and gets fun games. The main point is that it removes learning against several lines. 

I might even consider playing against 1...c5 and so on in 1.d4 fashion - or even with 2.dxc5, which seems to offer reasonable chances for an edge with best play. Of course, I've been playing for 7 years and have been almost religious in my use of 1.e4 (or 1.f4 knowing that my opponent would allow a transposition into KG positions) OTB. It's a fairly major switch to be going from 1.e4 to 1.d4, but a question on how to go about this would be best served in another forum I think...
  

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Re: 4.Qd3 in the Veresov
Reply #4 - 03/24/06 at 10:00:45
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Here's Jonny's latest Veresov - from the final rounds of the Swedish Team series last weekend:

Richter-Veresov Attack      D01

Jonny Hector (2609) Limhamn
Ralf Akesson (2582) SodraSASS

Elitserien (9) 2006

1. d4 d5 2. Sc3 Sf6 3. Lg5 Sbd7 4. Dd3 h6 5. Lf4 a6 6. g4 c5 7. O-O-O e6 8. Dg3 cxd4 9. Lc7 De7 10. Txd4 b5 11. e4 Dc5 12. Sge2 dxe4 13. b4 Dg5+ 14. f4 Dxg4 15. De1 Lb7 16. Tg1 Dh5 17. Sg3 Dh4 18. Dd2 Tc8 19. Le5 e3 20. Dxe3 Sg4 21. Dd2 Sgxe5 22. fxe5 Dg5 23. Txd7 Dxd2+ 24. Txd2 Txc3 25. Sh5 Lxb4 26. Txg7 Te3 27. Sf6+ 1/2-1/2
  
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