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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C30-C39 King's Gambit - help!!!!!!!! (Read 45124 times)
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Re: C30-C39 King's Gambit - help!!!!!!!!
Reply #46 - 04/10/14 at 07:09:01
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2...Nf6 is fairly unambitious, but I do not know any line where white can claim an advantage.
Both 3.Nf3 Nxe4 4.d3 Nc5 5.fe5 d5 6.d4 Ne6 (Shaw uses his own game against Crouch as an example) and 3.fe5 Nxe4 4.Nf3 Be7 give Black very little to worry about (if anything), and 3.Nc3 is a Vienna.
The king's gambit is not the right opening to search for an objective white advantage.
  
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Re: C30-C39 King's Gambit - help!!!!!!!!
Reply #45 - 04/08/14 at 22:01:00
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ErictheRed wrote on 04/02/14 at 05:52:28:
Just thinking of random offbeat ideas, is 1.e4 e5 2.f4 Nf6 any good? 


As you point in the rest of your post 2...Nf6 is a rare visitor and for those of us who deploy the King's gambit on a regularly basis 3.fxe5 does the trick. However I find that those who do employ 2...Nf6 do so because they have come prepared with such a singular method of play in which case I like to play 1.e4 e5 2.f4 Nf6 3.Ne2 transposing into Alapin's Opening (which granted is not altogether sound in its own right but is rarer than 2...Nf6 and no to many, if any know the correct method)

  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
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Re: C30-C39 King's Gambit - help!!!!!!!!
Reply #44 - 04/02/14 at 14:08:50
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Regarding 2...Nf6, I think the traditional book thing has been to cite Fischer-Wade as leading to +=.
  
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Re: C30-C39 King's Gambit - help!!!!!!!!
Reply #43 - 04/02/14 at 10:06:22
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ErictheRed wrote on 04/02/14 at 05:52:28:
Just thinking of random offbeat ideas, is 1.e4 e5 2.f4 Nf6 any good?  


It's been played enough times to be one of the "other defences" to the Kings Gambit. The late Bob Wade gave it a try against Fischer and claimed to have reached equality before blundering.

Actually because 3. fxe5 isn't an immediate threat, Black has a wide choice of moves. One I've noticed that might have considerable transposition value is 2. .. c6. I think it would likely avoid Bc4 lines entirely whilst offering options to go into the Nimzowitsch Counter Gambit and Modern lines. 
  
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Re: C30-C39 King's Gambit - help!!!!!!!!
Reply #42 - 04/02/14 at 07:54:31
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ErictheRed wrote on 04/02/14 at 05:52:28:
Just thinking of random offbeat ideas, is 1.e4 e5 2.f4 Nf6 any good?  I don't own any King's Gambit resources, but it's been played (rarely) by a few strong players and I couldn't find anything obviously wrong with it just moving the pieces around.  3.Nf3 Nxe4 might not work out great but Black has 3...exf4 there.  Or just 2...exf4 3.Nf3 Nf6, then.

Clearly I'm not the one to offer advice on King's Gambit lines, but there's got to be some less popular option that the original poster can take up with confidence. 


I cant remember for definite, but i think i saw this line in Gallaghers book. May have involved white exchanging on e5 and then chasing/trapping the knight somehow while developing.
  

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Re: C30-C39 King's Gambit - help!!!!!!!!
Reply #41 - 04/02/14 at 05:52:28
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Just thinking of random offbeat ideas, is 1.e4 e5 2.f4 Nf6 any good?  I don't own any King's Gambit resources, but it's been played (rarely) by a few strong players and I couldn't find anything obviously wrong with it just moving the pieces around.  3.Nf3 Nxe4 might not work out great but Black has 3...exf4 there.  Or just 2...exf4 3.Nf3 Nf6, then.

Clearly I'm not the one to offer advice on King's Gambit lines, but there's got to be some less popular option that the original poster can take up with confidence. 
  
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Re: C30-C39 King's Gambit - help!!!!!!!!
Reply #40 - 04/02/14 at 04:48:00
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RdC wrote on 04/01/14 at 20:02:25:
kylemeister wrote on 04/01/14 at 17:22:31:
Indeed.  The idea of spending time analyzing this with an engine etc. is gobsmacking.


Search a big database. The sequence 1. e4 e5 2. f4 g5 has been played and not just on 1st April.


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Re: C30-C39 King's Gambit - help!!!!!!!!
Reply #39 - 04/02/14 at 02:27:58
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RdC wrote on 04/01/14 at 20:02:25:
Search a big database. The sequence 1. e4 e5 2. f4 g5 has been played and not just on 1st April.

So what? 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Kf2 has been played as well. It scores about 85%.
  

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Re: C30-C39 King's Gambit - help!!!!!!!!
Reply #38 - 04/01/14 at 20:02:25
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kylemeister wrote on 04/01/14 at 17:22:31:
Indeed.  The idea of spending time analyzing this with an engine etc. is gobsmacking.


Search a big database. The sequence 1. e4 e5 2. f4 g5 has been played and not just on 1st April.
  
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Re: C30-C39 King's Gambit - help!!!!!!!!
Reply #37 - 04/01/14 at 17:22:31
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Indeed.  The idea of spending time analyzing this with an engine etc. is gobsmacking.
  
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Re: C30-C39 King's Gambit - help!!!!!!!!
Reply #36 - 04/01/14 at 17:11:19
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RdC wrote on 04/01/14 at 16:13:56:

There's a player called Zala of Hungary with around a 2000 rating who has played this line several times.  His idea is to play 3. .. d6 and then after 4 exd6 Qxd6. The Queen then goes to g6. So it's a bit of development and activity in exchange for a pawn and a dodgy King side pawn structure. Needless to say, computer engines are not impressed.


What development?  What activity?  That's the question.  What useful thing could the queen possibly do on g6?  Black does better to pass on move two, or play 1.e4 e6 2.f4 e5, than to play 1.e4 d5 2.f4 g5?.  At least in the first case he can meet 3.fxe5 with 3...Qh4+.  

2...g5? is just a terrible move.  I honestly can't think of a worse one (except 2...Ba3), in fact it's the only way to blunder the e5-pawn on this move.  This is an early April Fools joke, surely.
« Last Edit: 04/01/14 at 18:26:50 by ErictheRed »  
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Re: C30-C39 King's Gambit - help!!!!!!!!
Reply #35 - 04/01/14 at 16:13:56
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kylemeister wrote on 03/31/14 at 23:40:02:
One might wonder:  what could Black claim to be getting for the pawn after 3. fe?


There's a player called Zala of Hungary with around a 2000 rating who has played this line several times.  His idea is to play 3. .. d6 and then after 4 exd6 Qxd6. The Queen then goes to g6. So it's a bit of development and activity in exchange for a pawn and a dodgy King side pawn structure. Needless to say, computer engines are not impressed.
  
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Re: C30-C39 King's Gambit - help!!!!!!!!
Reply #34 - 04/01/14 at 12:45:34
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kylemeister wrote on 03/31/14 at 23:40:02:
One might wonder:  what could Black claim to be getting for the pawn after 3. fe?


Well, it's his move, I suppose.

Not sure Hebs still plays the Cunningham, TopNotch. I remember noticing a game of his some time fairly recently when he was playing something else, though I forget what.
  
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Re: C30-C39 King's Gambit - help!!!!!!!!
Reply #33 - 03/31/14 at 23:40:02
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One might wonder:  what could Black claim to be getting for the pawn after 3. fe?
  
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Re: King's Gambit - help!!!!!!!!
Reply #32 - 03/31/14 at 23:20:35
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ErictheRed wrote on 03/26/14 at 18:35:13:
mattchess wrote on 03/25/14 at 04:15:08:
Anyone know of some thorough analysis of 2...g5, the Zilbermints Double Pawn Counter-Gambit?



1. e4 e5 2. f4 g5 3. fxe5±

Please don't reproduce this without written permission, thanks.


Yeah that does appear to be the case - despite it doing relatively well in the few practical recorded games I could find, white blundered in all of them where black did well.  Often at move 3 taking the wrong pawn.  Looking over some games and engine analysis, initially I could not believe it was quite as bad as engines were suggesting and thought there must be some horizon effect strangeness going on.  But after more lengthy analysis and review of games where black won - it looks like what can be said for the opening is that it surprises white and can give white some rope with which to hang themselves.   They will only hang themselves once though.
  
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