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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Classical Dutch: State of Play (Read 134372 times)
alumbrado
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Re: Classical Dutch: State of Play
Reply #21 - 08/07/06 at 09:46:21
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JN wrote on 08/07/06 at 06:41:50:
Hello MNb [The censor has been here!]


There's no need for that sort of thing.  Let's try and keep it clean.
  
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JN
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Re: Classical Dutch: State of Play
Reply #20 - 08/07/06 at 06:41:50
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Hello MNb,

Let's go over the three lines:

13. b3 Qd6 [better than 13...Bb2 that allows 13.Ba3 +/=] and what now? Black will continue with Bb7 and Nd7. Conclusion: 13.b3 is nothing to worry about.

13.Ne5 Bb7 14.Ng4 Nd7 is OK for Black, but maybe 13...c6 is even more accurate [Fritz thinks so]. Conclusion: 13.Ne5 is nothing to worry about.

13.b4 Bb7 14.c5? Why give up the tension in the centre? The position is completely level now. Black can play almost anything - a5, Qe7, bxc5, c6, etc. All OK for Black!

Try harder!

JN

« Last Edit: 08/07/06 at 10:16:58 by GMTonyKosten »  
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MNb
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Re: Classical Dutch: State of Play
Reply #19 - 08/07/06 at 02:43:42
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Before making a statement like that you'd rather investigate the consequences of 13.b3 Bb7 14.Ba3, 13.Ne5 Bb7 14.Ng4 and 13.b4 Bb7 14.c5.
  
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JN
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Re: Classical Dutch: State of Play
Reply #18 - 08/06/06 at 11:04:42
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12.Nxf3 b6 is absolutely fine. Black will soon follow up with Bb2, Qd6 and Nd7.
  
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MNb
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Re: Classical Dutch: State of Play
Reply #17 - 08/04/06 at 21:12:16
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I doubt that evaluation after 12.Nxf3. What will happen with Bc8? I don't see e6-e5 coming, especially as White has a lead in development (one of the problems of an early Ne4). On the whole Black's idea is considerably stronger if the rook is on e1 instead of f1. Compare 7...a5 8.Re1 Ne4 and 7...a5 8.b3 Qe8 9.Re1 Ne4.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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JN
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Re: Classical Dutch: State of Play
Reply #16 - 08/04/06 at 07:44:14
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Very convincing! It is definitely time to investigate other options for Black at move 10. What about 10…Bf6!? 11.e3 exf3 should be ok for Black.
  
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IMJohnCox
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Re: Classical Dutch: State of Play
Reply #15 - 08/02/06 at 11:46:45
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JN, after your 11...dxc4, what about 12 Qc2 Qd5 13 Bf4? That seems to be a bit annoying, the main point being that 13...c5 14 Ne5! Qxd4+ 15 e3 Qd8 16 Be4! is crushing (aren't machines clever?)
  
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Re: Classical Dutch: State of Play
Reply #14 - 08/02/06 at 04:06:35
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Quote:
(what are these inverted commas of yours?!)


I think the misunderstanding here stems from the fact that chess book experts all now agree that Starting Out 1.d4! is a great work (standing alongside such greats as Zurich 1953 by David Bronstein, My System by Aron Nimzovich, My Great Predecessors series by Garry Kasparov, and Bobby Fischer: My Sixty Memorable Games) and John simply assumes that everyone is aware of that.

I suppose that's one of the problems about putting a formerly fairly unusual defence under the spotlight, White will find ways to cause more trouble.  I'm not sure what I think is best for Black, and if I do find something I'm not sure I'll share it either (like my refutations of the Najdorf and Sveshnikov Sicilians).

  
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JN
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Re: Classical Dutch: State of Play
Reply #13 - 08/01/06 at 15:51:36
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The NiC article is important. Williams has changed his mind a bit regarding some variations since the book. For instance, he no longer believes in 9...Bf6 against 8.Qc2 Nc3 9.Qc3. He actually gives the move a ?! and cites the game Spielmann-Pert, 2003: 10.b4! Nd7 11.Bb2 e5 12.de5 de5 13.e4 a5 14.a3 ab4 15.ab4 Ra1 16.Ra1 c5. However, I still believe in 9...Bf6. Instead of 12...de5 Black should play 12...Nxe5! If 13.c5 then 13...Nxf3 14.Qxf3 Bxb2 15.Qb3 d5 16.Qxb2 f4! and Black is OK.
  
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Re: Classical Dutch: State of Play
Reply #12 - 08/01/06 at 15:03:47
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I already have Williams' book on the Dutch; is it worth getting the NIC Yearbook for his article?  The yearbooks are always top quality, but I don't usually buy them because only a few articles are really relevant for me.  But 7...Ne4 is currently my "main" defence to 1.d4, so I'm considering getting the NIC Yearbook 68 (I'm sure there will also be some other articles in there that pique my interest).  How much does Williams expand on Play the Classical Dutch?
  
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JN
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Re: Classical Dutch: State of Play
Reply #11 - 08/01/06 at 12:09:49
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IMRichardPalliser gave 7...Qe8 a ?! above. However, a few days ago GM Curt Hansen was unable to beat an opponent rated "only" 2353 playing exactly that move. Hansen's 10.Ba3 is maybe not the best. Still, I think it is an interesting game.

[Event "Politiken Cup"]
[Site "Copenhagen"]
[Date "2006.07.29"]
[Round "8.2"]
[White "Hansen, Curt"]
[Black "Rasmussen, Allan Stig"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[WhiteElo "2625"]
[BlackElo "2353"]
[PlyCount "125"]
[EventDate "2006.??.??"]

1. d4 f5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 e6 4. c4 Be7 5. Nf3 d6 6. O-O O-O 7. Nc3 Qe8 8. b3
Nbd7 9. Qc2 Qh5 10. Ba3 g5 11. e3 a6 12. Rfe1 Rf7 13. Rad1 Rb8 14. Bc1 c5 15.
e4 Nxe4 16. Nxe4 fxe4 17. Qxe4 g4 18. Nd2 e5 19. dxc5 Nxc5 20. Qe2 Ne6 21. Nb1
Bd7 22. Nc3 Nd4 23. Rxd4 exd4 24. Bd5 dxc3 25. Qxe7 Qxd5 26. cxd5 Rxe7 27. Rxe7
Bf5 28. f3 gxf3 29. Kf2 c2 30. Kxf3 Kf8 31. Rc7 Rc8 32. Rxb7 Rc5 33. g4 Bd3 34.
h4 Rxd5 35. Rc7 Ke8 36. Rc3 Bg6 37. h5 Rd3+ 38. Rxd3 Bxd3 39. Ke3 Bf1 40. g5
Bh3 41. g6 Bf5 42. g7 Kf7 43. h6 Bh3 44. Kd4 Bf1 45. Kc3 Kg8 46. Kxc2 d5 47.
Kc3 d4+ 48. Kb4 Be2 49. Ka5 Bf1 50. a4 Be2 51. Bd2 Bf1 52. Kb6 Be2 53. b4 Bf1
54. Kc5 Be2 55. b5 Bxb5 56. axb5 axb5 57. Kxb5 Kf7 58. Kc4 Kg8 59. Kd5 d3 60.
Kd6 Kf7 61. g8=Q+ Kxg8 62. Ke7 Kh8 63. Kf7 1/2-1/2
  
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Re: Classical Dutch: State of Play
Reply #10 - 08/01/06 at 12:00:07
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Quote:
(what are these inverted commas of yours?!)


I'm just quoting you  Smiley
  
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Re: Classical Dutch: State of Play
Reply #9 - 08/01/06 at 11:44:27
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My GW (what are these inverted commas of yours?!)says that after 11...Nc6 'I don't understand why 12 b3 isn't played. I don't see how Black can equalise from this position.' It doesn't offer anything against your 11...dxc4. I will try and have a look.

  
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Re: Classical Dutch: State of Play
Reply #8 - 08/01/06 at 11:18:53
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OK. I think you are right. 15.Bxd4 also seems to give white an edge. It would be interesting to hear what your "great work" suggests against 10...exf3. The only serious move appears to be 11. Nxf3 (Bxf3 as in Gustafsson-Welling, 2005 is nothing although Williams in the NiC article claims a small advantage for white. 11...b6 is one improvement). Then I suggest 11...dxc4! instead of 11...Nc6 (as in Bromberger-Dobos, 1998). A possible line leading to equality could be 12. Qc2 Qd5 13.e4 Qb5 14.Be3 c5 15.Rac1 Nc6 16.Qxc4 Qxc4 17.Rxc4 b6 18.Rc3 Ba6 19.Rfc1 Nb4 20.Ra3 Bb7 =
  
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IMJohnCox
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Re: Classical Dutch: State of Play
Reply #7 - 08/01/06 at 10:47:18
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Well, I can tell you that my great work 'Starting Out 1 d4!' says that 'I don't agree' with Williams about 10 ...e3 and that, starting from the end of his line, 13 Na3 Nc6 14 Nxc4 Nxd4 15 f4 is better for White.
  
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