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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Question for Mr. Cox: 10 Rb1 Benko (Read 19551 times)
kevinludwig
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Re: Question for Mr. Cox: 10 Rb1 Benko
Reply #10 - 04/10/07 at 17:34:53
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Markovich, point taken. But I was looking at the position at work, so I was just making some general observations. It's an interesting position; at some point I'm going to try and work out some specific lines to see if my initial observations are correct.

In terms of the "free chess lessons" bit, I think John Cox has been pretty generous in saying what he does and doesn't know.
  
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Markovich
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Re: Question for Mr. Cox: 10 Rb1 Benko
Reply #9 - 04/10/07 at 13:39:26
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kevinludwig wrote on 04/10/07 at 01:05:53:

1) Markovich gives 17. Bb2 c4?!  18. Nd4 cxb3  19. axb3 as good for white. If that is true, then it seems that part of the reason why black covers c6 is because after ...c4 white has Nf3-d4-c6. If white doesn't play h3, maybe black can just play Bg4xf3, when there is no reason, in the short-term at least, to worry about c6?


You should not accept my opinion uncritically, since my OTB rating is only 2240 or so.  Also I've looked at this again and I'm a little less sure than I was before.  Black probably should play 19...Bb7, intending 20. Nc6 Bxc6  21. dxc6 Nc7.  It's not entirely clear to me how much better White is now, or how he should make progress.  One thing that is unfortunately rare here is for the IM contingent to pipe up with free chess lessons in specific positions like this.  Understandable, though.
  

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Re: Question for Mr. Cox: 10 Rb1 Benko
Reply #8 - 04/10/07 at 01:05:53
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Seems to be some questions about h3 and Qc1. I don't know the reasons for these moves either. Just some vague observations, with no supporting analysis  Shocked

1) Markovich gives 17. Bb2 c4?!  18. Nd4 cxb3  19. axb3 as good for white. If that is true, then it seems that part of the reason why black covers c6 is because after ...c4 white has Nf3-d4-c6. If white doesn't play h3, maybe black can just play Bg4xf3, when there is no reason, in the short-term at least, to worry about c6?

2) Another idea (or maybe in addition to (1) above) is that maybe the f3 knight is just a better piece than black's light-square bishop. For example, in Flear's main line when the bishop goes to d7, it's basically a defensive piece. But the f3 knight could find some good squares (c4 or d4), and/or help in an attack on black's king.

3) My idea on 20. Qc1 is that maybe it gives some additional attack possibilities for white on the dark squares around black's king. Flear's main line seems to indicate this, since black spent 3 moves (20. ...Qa6, 21. ...Qc8, 22. ...Qf8!) to cover them.

4) Also, and not related to Qc1 exactly, but it seems like the moves 18-23 were for the most part defensive. 18-19 black repositions his bishop to cover c6, 20-22 he moves his queen to a defensive role on the kingside (as a response to Qc1, maybe, but I don't know for sure), and then on 23 plays Ra7 (getting the rook off the long-diagonal). To me, this seems to imply that there are some neat tactics lurking somewhere underneath.
  
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lnn2
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Re: Question for Mr. Cox: 10 Rb1 Benko
Reply #7 - 03/14/07 at 02:15:37
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yea you're right 17... c4 is premature, so that's why the GMs try to cover c6 first. 

Flear's ebook contains the line 17... Nc7 18.e4 Bc8 19.h3 Bd7 20.Qc1 Qa6 21.Ra1 Qc8 22.Kh2 Qf8! (22...Na6 23.a3 Malakhatko,V-Aveskulov,V Alushta 2001) 23.Re1 Ra7 24.e5!? Nbxd5 25.Nxd5 Nxd5 26.exd6 Bxb2 27.Qxb2 exd6 28.Ng5 Nc7! 29.Ne4 Ne8 "Black is more or less OK" (Flear). 

Okay this is far from convincing as theoretical analysis, but i can't say i understand most of White's moves, if this is how he is meant to play, stuff like h3 and Qc1... john doesn't seem to know either(!), so i still think this is too difficult to play in a practical game.  Huh
  
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Re: Question for Mr. Cox: 10 Rb1 Benko
Reply #6 - 03/14/07 at 01:43:09
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lnn2 wrote on 10/01/06 at 04:03:46:
Hello, was going through Cox's 1. d4 book and working through the Benko section. Am wondering what happens after 10. Rb1 0-0 11. 0-0 Qa5 12. Bd2 Rfb8 13. Qc2 Nb6!?. 12... Nb6 could be met by 13. b3  Qa3 14. Ne1 (then Nc2) as in Dautov game, but this Ne1 maneuver is no longer possible after White commits to 13. Qc2. So what to do? 13. Qc2 Nb6 14. a4 does not look good because of 14... Nc4 15. Bc1 Qb4! 16. b3 Na3, and 14. b3 Qa3 15. Bc1 Qa5 16. Rd1 Ne8 means White has to put the bishop on b2 (which i'm not so keen because then ... c4 seems strong, Gurevich-Cao Sang comes to mind).. e.g. 17. Bb2 (17. Bd2 Qa3 seems to repeat) c4!?, and probably the only way to exploit this is 18. Nd4 but i don't really know whether cxb3/axb3 is good for White ( i really much prefer the "autopilot" stable structure a4 and b3).  The stem game seems to be Malakhatko-Aveskulov (given in Flear's ebook and Informator) which ended a win for White but maybe Black in that game should try to play for c4.

Many thanks in advance Smiley


To me, 17. Bb2 c4?!  18. Nd4 cxb3  19. axb3 looks good for White.  White has a safe passed pawn and really great queenside play with Nc6.  How does Black stop that, ...Bxd4 and kiss good-bye the kingside dark squares?
  

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MNb
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Re: Question for Mr. Cox: 10 Rb1 Benko
Reply #5 - 10/20/06 at 02:13:42
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Already read this one?

http://www.jeremysilman.com/chess_opng_anlys/Pain_and_Anguish_3.html

OK, it is off-topic, as Van der Weide did not castle.
  

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Re: Question for Mr. Cox: 10 Rb1 Benko
Reply #4 - 10/18/06 at 09:38:10
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Actually, there have been quite a lot of games from Taimanov’s end position (including a loss by Benko). I think this is how White has to play – a couple of GMs have gone Rfd1 allowing …Nc4, but they both lost rather miserably.

White’s done very well. Black normally starts with 18…Bc8, and White meets this with 19 h3 (as in the Malakhatko game; Malakhatko had previously been Black in the same position, btw). I suppose …Ba6-c8-d7 is partly to prepare ….c4, by hitting a4 and protecting c6.

It’s at this point my usefulness as a guide ceases, since I don’t understand h3. In my understanding, this move is sometimes useful for White in the Benko to prevent …Ng4. But surely White doesn’t need to be bothered about …Bg4, does he? Would he care about …Bg4xf3? It makes e5 harder to achieve to be sure, but I would have thought that (as in the Benoni) it’s designed to achieve a blockade and slow the game down, but in the Benko that must suit White, I’d have thought.

For good measure, I don’t understand why the Qc1 which Malakhatko praises so highly is a good move either (not that I’m doubting him: he always beats me).

I see White won in Bluvshtein-Khairullin in the world junior 2005 with the plan a4/Rdc1/Bf1 and then Nd1-b2, Nd2-c4. This looks like a sensible sort of plan to me, except that I wonder whether 19 a4 could not have been met with 19….c4!? Could White start with Bf1, perhaps? I’m not worried about 19…Bg4 20 Be2, but maybe that’s just my ignorance, of course.
  
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Re: Question for Mr. Cox: 10 Rb1 Benko
Reply #3 - 10/17/06 at 09:40:59
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I am working on this question!

MNb, I assume you meant 14 .....Qa3.

  
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Re: Question for Mr. Cox: 10 Rb1 Benko
Reply #2 - 10/02/06 at 09:35:53
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Many thanks MnB. I'm amazed at your old sources.
Taimanov's assessment looks right, so the 10 Rb1 Benko is really not easy to play!
  
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Re: Question for Mr. Cox: 10 Rb1 Benko
Reply #1 - 10/02/06 at 02:32:21
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I cannot really help, as I since long have lost track with the main variations of the Benkö. But the stem game is a little older, albeit via a transposition:

9...0-0 10.0-0 Nbd7 11.Qc2 Qa5 12.Rb1 Rfb8 13.Bd2 Nb6

Schwarz (1977) gives 14.b3 Qa5 15.Bc1 (or 15.Ne1 Bb7 16.e4 Nfd7!) Qa5 (Qb4? 16.a3 Qg4 17.h3 Qd7 18.Rd1 +-, as e2-e4 is strong now) 16.Bd2 Qa3 17.Bc1 and draw by repetition, Padewski-Browne, Sarajevo 1970.

Taimanov (1986) adds 16.Rd1 Ne8 17.Bb2 Nc7 18.e4 "and because of the advance c5-c4 Black has sufficient counterplay on the queen's wing", Salzman (or Zaltsman)-Benkö, Lone Pine 1981. White won though.
  

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Question for Mr. Cox: 10 Rb1 Benko
10/01/06 at 04:03:46
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Hello, was going through Cox's 1. d4 book and working through the Benko section. Am wondering what happens after 10. Rb1 0-0 11. 0-0 Qa5 12. Bd2 Rfb8 13. Qc2 Nb6!?. 12... Nb6 could be met by 13. b3  Qa3 14. Ne1 (then Nc2) as in Dautov game, but this Ne1 maneuver is no longer possible after White commits to 13. Qc2. So what to do? 13. Qc2 Nb6 14. a4 does not look good because of 14... Nc4 15. Bc1 Qb4! 16. b3 Na3, and 14. b3 Qa3 15. Bc1 Qa5 16. Rd1 Ne8 means White has to put the bishop on b2 (which i'm not so keen because then ... c4 seems strong, Gurevich-Cao Sang comes to mind).. e.g. 17. Bb2 (17. Bd2 Qa3 seems to repeat) c4!?, and probably the only way to exploit this is 18. Nd4 but i don't really know whether cxb3/axb3 is good for White ( i really much prefer the "autopilot" stable structure a4 and b3).  The stem game seems to be Malakhatko-Aveskulov (given in Flear's ebook and Informator) which ended a win for White but maybe Black in that game should try to play for c4.

Many thanks in advance Smiley
  
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