Although this variation was given by the Gutman/Bucker team, I suppose I am more or less obliged to defend the white side since I have said it is well worth trying. In contrast to the Max Lange this variation is of a more slow character and consequently the nature of an eventual white advantage will be more of the slow, nagging type, a bit like you will also find in the closed Ruy Lopez.
So let's have a look at your suggestions.

- 8...Bxf3 9. Qxf3 Qf6  A perfect example of the type of advantage mentioned above. White has the bishoppair and can choose whether he likes to exchange queens or keep them on. I think there is not much point in examining concrete variations. This is just a typical += scenario.

- 8...Be6  After 9. Bxe6 fxe6 white can point to the doubled e-pawns of course, but it is not much and of a more fleeting nature than the bishopppair above after 8...Bxf3. Again it is hard to give a concrete variation, but let's say something like 10. d3 Nf6 11. Nbd2 0-0 12. Nc4 Ba7 13. Bg5 b5 14. axb5 axb5 15. Na5 Ne7 16. d4 and there is still some play in the position. It is quite possible though that black can fully equalize here or somewhere along the way.

- 9...Qf6  That's a very unfortunate one, as the queen is lost after 10. g4 Bg6? 11. Bg5

- 10...Qd7  Ok, but then what is your follow-up to 11. Bg5, the move that was radically prevented by 10...h6?

Talk about the unfortunate fate of the Max Lange adept. There he stands with his bag full of nice novelties, ready for his next tournament, only then to discover there is no way he will reach the variation in the first place.. /   

Gutman recommends using the move-order 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. 0-0 Nf6 5. d4 and I haven't seen his analysis, but I can hardly believe this is really a problem for black after 5...Bxd4.

Note that the Chesscafe article also deals with 4...d6. After 5. c3 Bg4 6. b4 Bb6 7. a4 a6 8. h3 Bh5 9. d3 Nf6 10. Re1 h6 11. Nbd2 Gutman and Bucker claim an advantage. This is certainly worth trying in my opinion.

Yes, I agree that 17...Rag8 is rather cooperative, but  all the same I would say that the position after 16...Qd5 is just a little bit better for white, as the black king is a little shaky and his pawn structure slightly weakened. White can try various moves, for example 17. Qc2, 17. Re3, 17. Qe2 or indeed Gutman's 17. Qe1 and after your improvement 17...Kf8 18. Ne4.

I also agree that 11...Kxe7 should be replaced by 11...Qxe7. After 11. Nxd4 however, I think 12...0-0-0 is less good on account of 13. Nxc6 bxc6 14. Qf3 Qd7 15. Nc3. This was already given as clearly better for white by Schlechter somewhere around 1900, so I'm a bit confused about Herbrechtsmeier's recommending it.
Better is 12...Rd8. After 13. c3 Nxd4 14. cxd4 Rxg7 15. Nc3 Gutman gives 15...Qg5 16. Qf3 c6 17. Ne4 Qe7 18. Qh5 Kf8 19. Qh6 with a clear advantage to white, but again this variation is a bit cooperative. Much better is the solid 15...Kf8 with white having reached next to nothing.

So, just when I thought it was time to return to the good old Ruy again, I noticed that ...Qxe7 is less good when white changes his moveorder to 8. fxg7! Rg8 9. Bg5! Be7 10. Bxe7 Qxe7 11. Nxd4!  Here Gutman thinks black is ok after 11...Be6 12. Nxc6 bxc6 13. Nc3 Qf6, but after 14. f4 I think this is definitely not the case!
For the moment I still don't see black reaching clear equality in the Max, unless there is a mistake in my analysis of course

Well, I am ready to discuss anything you like, as long as it is related to the Max Lange!  

Justinhorton wrote on 10/27/06 at 13:08:36:


Regarding the Max Lange attack Bucker is not holding anything back. The chess cafe article gives the same main line as the article in Kaissiber. Of course in the magazine there is a lot more to be found on all kinds of sidelines. I am not what you would call an expert on the Max Lange, but Gutman's claiming an edge for white does not seem unreasonable to me. As a matter of fact as an alternative to Schlechter's  12. Re4 he allso thinks 12. Nbd2 is slightly better for white.