SWJediknight wrote on 09/30/10 at 23:18:20:

11.cxd4 0-0-0 12.Nc3 looks pretty equal to me. Black will have to lose a tempo as Qe7 is misplaced.

5.c3 Ne5 6.Nxe5 dxe5 7.Qb3 Qe7 8.0-0 c6 9.cxd4 seems to improve on a game Glek-Dreev indeed. Still I am not too excited about White's chances after 9...exd4; 10...b5; and 11...Qb4. White's most active pieces are driven backward.

5.c3 Nf6 6.0-0 Ne5 also is quite strong. Instead White might try 6.Ng5 Ne5 7.Bb3 which in the end does transpose after dxc3 8.Nxc3.
My main objection against 5.c3 is Ne5!

Have you guys realized that 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 g6 4.d4 exd4 5.c3 dxc3 6.Nxc3 d6 is the same as 3.d4 exd4 4.c3 dxc3 5.Nxc3 (5.Bc4 d6 6.Nxc3 g6) d6 6.Bc4 g6 and 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 Nc6 5.Bc4 d6 6.Nf3 g6 ?

There must be a reason why this is not the most popular defence against the Göring Gambit.
Here Goeller does not mention the logical 7.0-0 and only after Bg7 8.Bg5. A sample line is Nge7 9.Nd5 0-0 10.Qb3 Qd7 (no ...Na5 here) 11.Nf6+ Bxf6 12.Bxf6 Na5 13.Qe3 and White is obviously better.
After 7.Bg5 f6 (Be7 looks better indeed) 8.Be3 Nh6 9.h3 Bg7 10.Qd5 Qd7 White has 11.0-0 (11.Rd1 might be even better, anticipating on the Queen's exchange by leaving the king centralized) Nf7 (what else?) 12.Qxf7 Qxf7 13.Bxf7+ Kxf7 and now 14.Nd5 is a lot stronger than in Pinski's example.
The annoying point for White is exactly that (s)he does not have an easy transposition to the Göring Gambit after 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.Bc4 Nc6 4.Nf3 d6.

I think Black can play for ...g6 either right away or via ...d6.  Mihail Marin had an excellent piece in CBM 128 (see here: http://www.chessbase.com/shop/product.asp?pid=427) on 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 d6!? planning an eventual ...g6 -- including after 4.d4 exd4, which basically transposes to the lines you consider).  I began writing up some notes on this line and uncovered a very interesting forgotten game with it.  It is definitely superior to the Larsen Variation of the Philidor.  The possibility of ...Ne5 is annoying for White.  But Marin's analysis of this is masterful.

I've analyzed a few games with ...g6, which is also discussed favorably by the notoriously Black-biased Jan Pinski (Italian and Evans Gambit):
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/games/java/2008/weeramantry-bisguier.htm
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/games/java/2009/open-g6-pt1.htm
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/games/java/2009/open-g6-pt2.htm

Sure, especially as there are hardly quality games.
Because of White's 10th move in your line I'd rather advocate a plan involving castling kingside. Sorry that I was unclear about that. Alas I have not really a clue about the most promising piece arrangement.
I have seen a few games with 5.Nxd4 Bg7 6.Nxc6 bxc6 in which White did not fare too badly. Perhaps 6.Be3 Nf6 (Ne5 at once!?) 7.Nc3 0-0 8.0-0 d6 9.h3 is also somewhat better for White.

[quote author=7E7D7771100 link=1162564598/20#20 date=1285432012]I think our original discussion suggested 5 ...g6!? was an interesting and viable reply (one of the points being that White might not have wanted his light-squared Bishop on c4).[/quote]
That point seems correct to me. Against that Pirc/Philidor/Larsen setup the most dangerous imo is the typical scheme Be3, Qd2, 0-0-0, h2-h4-h5. That doesn't work well if the bishop is already on c4 as Black can initiate counterplay more quickly with the desirable manoeuvre ...Ne5 and ...c5.
That doesn't mean though that 5...g6 or 5...Nf6 6.Nc3 g6 guarantees equality.

Re. earlier posts, I always thought Black's best continuation after 5...dxc3 was the chaotic main line 6.Nxc3 Nf6 7.Qb3 Qd7 8.Ng5 Ne5 9.Bb5 c6 10.f4, when 10...cxb5 11.fxe5 dxe5 12.Be3 a5! 13.0-0 a4!, 10...Neg4 and 10...h6 are playable (10...Ng6 11.e5 h6 12.exf6 hxg5 13.0-0 is too risky for Black, IMHO), though Black needs to be prepared in order to stand much of a chance in a line like this.

But in my opinion 5...Nf6 is stronger anyway.  I tried various ideas against it, with the help of Fritz 8, to find good compensation for White and found nothing convincing.  In addition to 6.cxd4 (probably best) there's 6.Nxd4 Ne5 7.Bb3 Nxe4 =+, and 6.0-0 dxc3 7.Nxc3 Be7 =+.  I don't trust 5...Ne5, however.

@ MNb (or anyone else!)

Taking another look at this old thread, I was wondering if you had any analysis on [1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 d4 ed 4 Bc4 d6!?] 5 c3(!) Nf6!? 6 cd Ne4 7 Qb3 [u]Qd7!?[/u]. Is White meant to be better here? -- taking a quick look I didn't think it so clear ...