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Poll closed Question: Who was the best challenger for the world title?
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Bronstein    
  16 (41.0%)
Korchnoi    
  15 (38.5%)
Bogolyubov    
  1 (2.6%)
Tarrasch    
  1 (2.6%)
Janowski    
  0 (0.0%)
Chigorin    
  0 (0.0%)
Marshall    
  1 (2.6%)
Topalov    
  3 (7.7%)
Anand    
  1 (2.6%)
Zukertort, Gunsberg, Schlechter, Leko or Short    
  1 (2.6%)




Total votes: 39
« Last Modified by: thibdb13 on: 02/13/07 at 13:15:18 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Who was the best challenger for the world title? (Read 15152 times)
Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #42 - 12/03/07 at 05:19:14
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Speaking of other polls...

There are several polls (you'll have to page down) with this or similar questions asked.  They are still open, too!
  
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thibdb13
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #41 - 11/27/07 at 14:57:03
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sssthepro wrote on 11/27/07 at 12:17:21:
I want to vote for Paul Keres

Then, you must organize another poll. Keres was not a real challenger. It is true he participated at the 1948 tournament that had to decide about Alekhine's successor but I personnally consider this as a "better" candidates tournament than as a WCC match.
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #40 - 11/27/07 at 12:17:21
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I want to vote for Paul Keres
  
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #39 - 02/23/07 at 15:46:16
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Ptero wrote on 02/23/07 at 06:13:16:
Indeed Korchnoi is well known for that sort of manner. After the following game, when I. Sokolov suggested a post-mortem, he replied: "You are a coffeehouse player playing coffeehouse chess"



Grin Grin That is priceless.  It is one thing to insult children or young IMs but a fine GM is another matter. 

Viktor, Viktor, Viktor.... We will still miss him when he is gone.
  

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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #38 - 02/23/07 at 06:13:16
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Prince-Nez wrote on 02/23/07 at 02:25:43:
Sorry to change the subject briefly but did anyone else read or hear of Korchnoi's behavior towards Irina Krush in Gibraltar?  Not the first time Viktor the terrible has behaved like that and it won't be the last I suspect.  Roll Eyes  Grin  You have to scroll down a bit for that part of her report. 

http://beta.uschess.org/frontend/news_7_264.php


Indeed Korchnoi is well known for that sort of manner. After the following game, when I. Sokolov suggested a post-mortem, he replied: "You are a coffeehouse player playing coffeehouse chess"

[Event "It"]
[Site "Reykjavik (Iceland)"]
[Date "2003"]
[Round "7"]
[White "Korchnoi Viktor (SUI)"]
[Black "Sokolov Ivan (NED)"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[Eco "D11"]
[Annotator ""]
[Source ""]

1.Nf3 d5 2.d4 Nf6 3.c4 c6 4.e3 Bg4 5.h3 Bh5 6.cxd5 Bxf3 7.Qxf3
cxd5 8.Nc3 Nc6 9.Bd2 a6 10.Rc1 Rc8 11.Bd3 e5 12.dxe5 Nxe5 13.Qe2
Bd6 14.O-O O-O 15.Rfd1 Bb8 16.Be1 Qd6 17.Bf5 Nc6 18.g3 Rcd8 19.Qf3
Qe5 20.Ne2 Ne4 21.Nd4 Nxd4 22.exd4 Qe7 23.Ba5 Rde8 24.Re1 g6
25.Bxe4 dxe4 26.Qb3 Qg5 27.Bb4 e3 28.Rxe3 Bxg3 29.Rc5 Bxf2+ 30.Kxf2
Qf4+ 31.Ke2 Qh2+ 32.Kd3 Rxe3+ 33.Kxe3 Re8+ 34.Re5 Qxh3+ 35.Kd2
Qh2+ 36.Kc1 Rxe5 37.dxe5 Qxe5 38.Qf3 Qb5 39.Bc3 f5 40.Qd1 Kf7
41.Qd8 Qf1+ 1/2-1/2
  
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #37 - 02/23/07 at 05:50:38
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Yes, that is a well-known clip by now.  Viktor, Viktor, Viktor.  Angry
  

We work in the dark - we do what we can - we give what we have. Our doubt is our passion and our passion is our task. The rest is the madness of art. &&~ Henry James
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #36 - 02/23/07 at 04:31:55
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Yes, I read about this in Irina Krush's blog at Chess Life's online site.

Here's a YouTube link showing some typically bad behavior by Korchnoi following a blitz game with Sofia Polgar:

Sofia Polgar vs. Korchnoi blitz game
  

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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #35 - 02/23/07 at 02:25:43
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Sorry to change the subject briefly but did anyone else read or hear of Korchnoi's behavior towards Irina Krush in Gibraltar?  Not the first time Viktor the terrible has behaved like that and it won't be the last I suspect.  Roll Eyes  Grin  You have to scroll down a bit for that part of her report. 

http://beta.uschess.org/frontend/news_7_264.php
  

We work in the dark - we do what we can - we give what we have. Our doubt is our passion and our passion is our task. The rest is the madness of art. &&~ Henry James
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thibdb13
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #34 - 02/22/07 at 07:04:15
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MNb wrote on 02/21/07 at 20:42:27:

The 1929 match was played just after the Carlsbad tournament, Nimzo's finest achievement. Before Nimzo's results were not that impressive - only winning Berlin BSG, 1928. The San Remo 1930 and Bled 1931 tournament proved Alekhine's superiority without any doubt.
Along the same line one can argue, that after losing his title Capablanca did not prove to be the best of the rest: 2nd behind Bogo at Bad Kissingen 1928, 1st at Berlin Tageblatt 1928 (but Bogo was not there), shared 2nd at Carlsbad. Nobody could know, that Alekhine would crush Bogo in the 1929 match. Moreover - the first half of the match Bogo quite hold his own. I dare to say, that (sorry for all the Capa, Nimzo and Rubinstein fans) at the time negotiations began (end of 1928), Bogo deserved the 1929 match as least as much as the others. 
I did not know about that 1930 opportunity. Could you provide that link once again?
Still - we do not expect WCh's to defend their title every year - every three years is good enough. So if in 1929 Bogo was a good choice, who should it have been in 1932? Capa had retired.
I do not really sympathize with Alekhine for many reasons. But I think the well known reproaches of "he should have given Capa, Nimzo, Rubinstein a match" unjustified. Should he have played 4 matches in one year or something? My, Capa waited no less than 6 years before defending his title! But that's a fact the Capa fans systemetically ignore.


Here is the link: [url]http://is.park.ru/doc.jsp?listno=2166834&listcd=2&listmd=12&listfile =pub&urn=6023451[/url]
I can agree with the idea that does not have to defend his title each year because it can devaluate his value but, if I am not wrong, Lasker played also 4 matches in a very short time. OK, he did it more for the money (or better said: he was very afraid of finishing as Steinitz).
Nevertheless, Alekhine could agree with the idea of a revange match with Capablanca. To be honest, I must say the article in question mentions that Alekhine negotiated very hard for the 1930 match with Capablanca and that this last eventually refused one of the conditions Alekhine has made so that one can say that it is Capablanca who did not want to play this match.
By the way, I also think that Alekhine was the best player in his time and as the article in question shows he has tried to organize a matches: with Flohr and Botvinnik just before the war and with Keres during the war. But here again I have the impression he knew very well that these matches were nearly impossible to organize. 

  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #33 - 02/21/07 at 20:42:27
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thibdb13 wrote on 02/21/07 at 06:56:15:
The problem is that Alekhine never gave a second chance to Capablanca and there was an opportunity for it in 1930 (see my link in another thread to a russian article). Nimzowich could also have been an interessing challenger but he was perhaps too old and, as Rubinstein, was not so good in raising money.


The 1929 match was played just after the Carlsbad tournament, Nimzo's finest achievement. Before Nimzo's results were not that impressive - only winning Berlin BSG, 1928. The San Remo 1930 and Bled 1931 tournament proved Alekhine's superiority without any doubt.
Along the same line one can argue, that after losing his title Capablanca did not prove to be the best of the rest: 2nd behind Bogo at Bad Kissingen 1928, 1st at Berlin Tageblatt 1928 (but Bogo was not there), shared 2nd at Carlsbad. Nobody could know, that Alekhine would crush Bogo in the 1929 match. Moreover - the first half of the match Bogo quite hold his own. I dare to say, that (sorry for all the Capa, Nimzo and Rubinstein fans) at the time negotiations began (end of 1928), Bogo deserved the 1929 match as least as much as the others. 
I did not know about that 1930 opportunity. Could you provide that link once again?
Still - we do not expect WCh's to defend their title every year - every three years is good enough. So if in 1929 Bogo was a good choice, who should it have been in 1932? Capa had retired.
I do not really sympathize with Alekhine for many reasons. But I think the well known reproaches of "he should have given Capa, Nimzo, Rubinstein a match" unjustified. Should he have played 4 matches in one year or something? My, Capa waited no less than 6 years before defending his title! But that's a fact the Capa fans systemetically ignore.
  

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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #32 - 02/21/07 at 08:55:57
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yes, the more we actually think about it, maybe the good old classical World Chess Champion has been something of an unjust event down through the years and we shouldnt shed too much tears for its passing. There has been far too much politics and general avoidance of competitors.
  
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #31 - 02/21/07 at 06:56:15
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The problem is that Alekhine never gave a second chance to Capablanca and there was an opportunity for it in 1930 (see my link in another thread to a russian article). Nimzowich could also have been an interessing challenger but he was perhaps too old and, as Rubinstein, was not so good in raising money.
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #30 - 02/21/07 at 02:44:06
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I reject Thibdb's comment on Alekhine. In 1929 Bogoljubow was a logical choice: he had won both Moscow 1925 and Bad Kissingen 1928 - ahead of Capablanca (both tournaments) and Nimzovitsj (the 2nd one).
It is true, that the 1934 match was completely superfluous - Alekhine wrote that himself. But then again, who else? In 1935 Euwe again was a logical choice: 2nd in Zürich 1934, Bern 1932. The only other option was Flohr, who had about the same results.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #29 - 02/20/07 at 12:32:49
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Keano wrote on 02/20/07 at 08:54:09:
Interesting - I had always assumed that Lasker had craftily avoided to play Rubinstein at his peak (after the war I dont believe he was ever the same player again). If anyone can point me to some more historical information on these match arrangements I would be grateful.

I have no precise information about the arrangements of a Lasker-Rubinstein match but I could find some indications on the internet. Nearly all articles say that Lasker had very high financial expectations (e.g. Capablanca had to find 8000$ and to pay the travel and stay costs of Lasker). It seems Lasker was afraid of finishing as poor as Steinitz.
Nearly all articles say also that the match with Rubinstein could not be because of WW1.
It seems also that Lasker allways tried to find an opponent of which he was convinced he can beat him (Alekhine did the same but was less good in the choice of his opponents as Euwe demonstrated). And so, Lasker avoided a long time matches against Rubinstein and Capablanca.
About Rubinstein I could also find that Rubinstein was a sort of nerd before his time (no real social abilities, closed personnality, psychologically unstable) and so it was quite difficult for him to find fund raisers and to arrange a match.
For those who speak russian and french I have two interessant articles:
http://is.park.ru/doc.jsp?listno=2166834&listcd=2&listmd=12&listfile=pub&urn=602..., in russian and about the wcc matches that never did occur.
http://www.mjae.com/echecs-et-guerre-02.html, in french about what preceded the Capablanca-Lasker match and the atmosphere of that time.
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #28 - 02/20/07 at 08:54:09
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Interesting - I had always assumed that Lasker had craftily avoided to play Rubinstein at his peak (after the war I dont believe he was ever the same player again). If anyone can point me to some more historical information on these match arrangements I would be grateful.
  
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