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Poll closed Question: Who was the best challenger for the world title?
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*** This poll has now closed ***


Bronstein    
  16 (41.0%)
Korchnoi    
  15 (38.5%)
Bogolyubov    
  1 (2.6%)
Tarrasch    
  1 (2.6%)
Janowski    
  0 (0.0%)
Chigorin    
  0 (0.0%)
Marshall    
  1 (2.6%)
Topalov    
  3 (7.7%)
Anand    
  1 (2.6%)
Zukertort, Gunsberg, Schlechter, Leko or Short    
  1 (2.6%)




Total votes: 39
« Last Modified by: thibdb13 on: 02/13/07 at 13:15:18 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Who was the best challenger for the world title? (Read 15183 times)
woofwoof
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #12 - 02/13/07 at 15:28:00
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Uberdecker wrote on 02/13/07 at 14:53:37:
When discussing the Kramnik-Leko match with Yaacov Murey, I had the stupid idea of pointing out that it was the first WC match to be drawn since Botvinnik-Bronstein.


Errrmmm...... Wasnt the 1st one Bots-Smyslov 1954??

but definitely Bronstein-Botvinnik & Smyslov-Botvinnik 1954 were better than Krams-Leko. Longer match, & many more decisive games.
  

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ANDREW BRETT
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #11 - 02/13/07 at 15:13:56
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The best challenger for the word title - were clearly those challengers who went on to win the title !! 

If it's a list of those who did not quite get there, then out of the pre 1948 crowd,Schlecter i think is the most deserving - rumours persist to this day that he had to throw his game v Lasker, although whether it was an official match is another story.

After this, I would say on ability Anand- he would have been a world champ in any other era. In terms of getting there hands on the  title  hard to disagree with Victor the Terrible at Baguio. But hard to ignore 'Barry' Bronstein's claims - that he may have had to deliberately avoid winning !

Andrew
  
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Uberdecker
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #10 - 02/13/07 at 14:53:37
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When discussing the Kramnik-Leko match with Yaacov Murey, I had the stupid idea of pointing out that it was the first WC match to be drawn since Botvinnik-Bronstein. The old maestro almost wrung my neck for daring to make such a comparison...
  
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #9 - 02/13/07 at 14:42:43
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Oh, Keano, you naughty boy. We are counting only points won over the board here. True enough about Leko, mind.
  
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Keano
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #8 - 02/13/07 at 14:36:55
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well Leko and Topalov both drew their matches so I suppose that puts them on par with Bronstein?!
  
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thibdb13
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #7 - 02/13/07 at 14:31:29
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Surely Keres deserves to at least make the shortlist (or does the 1948 match-tournament not count?)

I only took into consideration the matches for the world title and so excluded the 1948 tournament. By the way, ended only 4th at this tournament not only behind of future champions Botvinnik and Smyslov but also behind Reshevsky.
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Dink Heckler
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #6 - 02/13/07 at 14:18:01
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Surely Keres deserves to at least make the shortlist (or does the 1948 match-tournament not count?)
  

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Willempie
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #5 - 02/13/07 at 14:15:10
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Bit torn between Tarrasch, Schlechter and Korchnoi. Tarrasch because he could have played Steinitz around 1890 and only played Lasker when he was past his prime (though he humiliated Marshall a few years prior). Schlechter for drawing the match. Korchnoi for overall performance, plus scoring 3.5/4 against Karpov with 5-2 behind. In the end I went for Tarrasch due to his overall results (completely dominating the field around 1890, including quite a plus against Steinitz) and meanwhile keeping up his practice.

I left Bronstein out, since he shouldnt have played Botwinnik in the first place as he freely admits in one of his books. Boleslavsky slowed down in the candidates tournament to allow Bronstein to tie in the hopes of securing a 3-people tournament iso a match.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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woofwoof
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #4 - 02/13/07 at 13:21:11
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IMJohnCox wrote on 02/13/07 at 12:03:08:

I think I would just go for Bronstein - longer match, Botvinnik so dominant in 1948 and then challenged at the height of his powers, suspicion that Bronstein was pressured into not winning, etc.


Yea. same here. Sadly Bronstein didnt reveal the real reasons for his 'loss' before he passed on. Given that the Soviet regime & Bots are gone, I dont suppose that it would do him any harm in revealing it?? Or is Putin a factor here??

Anyway, I dont have too much respect for Bots, he was one champ who had far too many privalages. But thats for another thread.
  

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thibdb13
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #3 - 02/13/07 at 13:17:14
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IMJohnCox wrote on 02/13/07 at 12:03:08:
What's happened to Leko!? (arguably, anyway) 



Sorry for Leko, I overlooked him!! 
I have just added him to the group with Short.
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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TalJechin
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #2 - 02/13/07 at 13:13:56
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Anyone for adding Topalov to the list?  Grin

Anyway, it's hard to see beyond Bronstein and Kortchnoi, (Schlechter was too fond of the draw imo - maybe his unlucky name robbed of him of achieving the right confidence?!), and since the latter has had a higher level of performance seen to the entire career I'd go with the K-man.
  
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IMJohnCox
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Re: Who was the best challenger for the world titl
Reply #1 - 02/13/07 at 12:03:08
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What's happened to Leko!? (arguably, anyway) 

Schlechter deserves a button of his own. He drew with the man Tal called the greatest of the champions. Getting slaughtered by Kasparov isn't quite in the same league of achievement.

In fairness I don't think you can look beyond Bronstein or Schlechter, who did after all draw with the champions.

I think I would just go for Bronstein - longer match, Botvinnik so dominant in 1948 and then challenged at the height of his powers, suspicion that Bronstein was pressured into not winning, etc.
  
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thibdb13
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Who was the best challenger for the world title?
02/13/07 at 11:23:32
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It's about the ones who never won an official world-title match (classical or against Kasparov)
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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