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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Benko book (Read 97679 times)
Stigma
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Re: Benko Gambit 5.f3
Reply #26 - 03/19/10 at 17:00:07
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Still on 5.f3 g6, White has an aggressive try with 6.e4 Bg7 7.e5 Ng8 8.f4 etc, avoiding the Sämisch KID transpositions. Though principled this has not scored well in the databases.

Maybe Kramnik's usage (albeit in a blindfold game) will spark interest in this approach? Though Kramnik has even played the Pirc lately, so maybe not... The game below transposed from a 3.f3 Anti-Grünfeld to a Benko. 

[Event "Amber Blindfold"]
[Date "2010.03.18"]
[Round "5"]
[White "Kramnik, Vladimir"]
[Black "Ponomariov, Ruslan"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2790"]
[BlackElo "2737"]
[ECO "E60"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. f3 c5 4. d5 b5 5. cxb5 a6 6. e4 Bg7 7. e5 Ng8 8. f4 d6 9. Nf3 Nd7 10. Nc3 dxe5 11. fxe5 Nxe5 12. bxa6 Qa5 13. Nxe5 Bxe5 14. Bb5+
Kf8 15. Qf3 Kg7 16. O-O Bd4+ 17. Be3 Nf6 18. d6 Bf5 19. a4 e5 20. Ne2 Qd8 21. Bxd4 cxd4 22. Qg3 Ng4 23. h3 Ne3 24. Qxe5+ f6 25. Qxd4 Nc2 26. Qc5 Nxa1
27. Rxa1 Qc8 28. b4 Bxh3 29. d7 Bxd7 30. Qe7+ Kh6 31. Bxd7 Qxa6 32. Nd4 Qd3 33. Qxf6 Rhf8 34. Qh4+ Kg7 35. Ne6+ 1-0
  
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Paul Cumbers
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Re: Benko book
Reply #25 - 02/14/10 at 23:22:12
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Paul Cumbers wrote on 02/12/10 at 22:08:40:
Presumably, there's also 8.Bg5 with the same idea of Qd2 & Bh6. This would transpose to the game after 8...d6 9.Qd2 Qa5 10.Bh6, or Black could try 9...Re8 again, or perhaps 8...h6 9.Be3 d6 10.Qd2 Kh7.

Transpositions to/from certain lines of the King's Indian Sämisch are possible (with Be3 or Bg5). E.g.:

Ivanchuk v Kasparov (Linares, 1997)
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.f3 O-O 6.Bg5 a6 7.Qd2 c5 8.d5 b5 9.cxb5 Nbd7 10.a4 Qa5 11.Nge2 Nb6 12.Nc1 axb5 13.Bxb5 Ba6 14.N1a2 Bxb5 15.axb5 Nh5 16.Rb1 Bd4 17.Bh6 Rfe8 18.b3 e6 19.dxe6 Rxe6 20.Be3 Bxe3 21.Qxe3 d5 22.b4 Qa3 23.bxc5 Nc4 24.Qd4 Nf4 25.O-O Qxa2 26.Rf2 Qa3 27.Nxd5 Qd3 28.Qxd3 Nxd3 29.Rc2 Na3 30.Ra2 Nxc5 31.Rba1 f5 32.Nc7 Re5 33.Nxa8 Nxb5 34.exf5 gxf5 35.Nb6 Nc3 36.Rc2 1-0

The position after White's 9th move could be reached via the Benko move order: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 b5 4.cxb5 a6 5.f3 g6 6.e4 Bg7 7.Nc3 O-O 8.Bg5 d6 9.Qd2.

Ivanchuk's knight "bumping along the bottom" with Ng1-e2-c1-a2 was particularly intriguing!
  
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Paul Cumbers
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Re: Benko book
Reply #24 - 02/12/10 at 22:08:40
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MNb wrote on 02/05/10 at 03:26:10:
Stigma wrote on 02/04/10 at 09:17:36:
I've been aware of that Nakamura game for a while, but I still haven't taken up 5.f3 because I'm worried about 5...g6 6.e4 Bg7, Black playing without an early ...d6. This seems like just the kind of dynamic line Benko players are after, and Pinski found it playable iirc.

White is supposed to maoeuvre his knights to c4 and c3 probably, but that takes time and meanwhile Black is opening the centre with ...e6. Any good suggestions against this?


Vaisser once played 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 b5 4.cxb5 a6 5.f3 g6 6.e4 Bg7 7.Nc3 0-0 8.Be3 d6 9.Qd2 with the idea of exchanging Black's important Bg7. After 9...Re8 White might just play 10.bxa6 and continue development?

Here we go:

Vaisser v Alvarez Ibarra (San Sebastian, 1992)
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 b5 4.cxb5 a6 5.f3 g6 6.e4 Bg7 7.Nc3 O-O 8.Be3 d6 9.Qd2 Qa5 10.Bh6 Bxh6 11.Qxh6 Bd7 12.bxa6 Nxa6 13.Qd2 Nc7 14.Bc4 Rfb8 15.Nge2 Nb5 16.Nd1 Qb6 17.O-O e6 18.dxe6 Bxe6 19.Bxb5 Qxb5 20.Nec3 Qb6 21.f4 Qb4 22.f5 Bc4 23.Rf4 Nh5 24.Rf2 Rd8 25.Ne3 Ba6 26.g4 Ng7 27.Ned5 Qd4 28.Qh6 Rf8 29.Rd1 Bd3 30.Rxd3 1-0

A model game by White!

Presumably, there's also 8.Bg5 with the same idea of Qd2 & Bh6. This would transpose to the game after 8...d6 9.Qd2 Qa5 10.Bh6, or Black could try 9...Re8 again, or perhaps 8...h6 9.Be3 d6 10.Qd2 Kh7.
  
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Paul Cumbers
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Re: Benko book
Reply #23 - 02/10/10 at 15:51:28
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Dink Heckler wrote on 02/10/10 at 15:36:47:
That's a Nimzowitsch quote...or at least that's how it's always translated...

Ah, thanks for filling me in. That makes more sense now!  Smiley
  
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Dink Heckler
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Re: Benko book
Reply #22 - 02/10/10 at 15:36:47
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That's a Nimzowitsch quote...or at least that's how it's always translated...
  
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Paul Cumbers
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Re: Benko book
Reply #21 - 02/10/10 at 15:20:52
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Paul Cumbers wrote on 02/03/10 at 23:51:42:
Nakamura v Vachier Lagrave (Cap d'Agde, 2008)
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 b5 4.cxb5 a6 5.f3 e6 6.e4 exd5 7.e5 Qe7 8.Qe2 Ng8 9.Nc3 Bb7 10.Nh3 c4 11.Nf4 Qc5 12.Nfxd5 Bxd5 13.Be3 Qb4 14.a3 Qa5 15.Bd2 Be6 16.Nd5 Qd8 17.Qxc4 Ra7 18.Rc1 axb5 19.Nc7+ Rxc7 20.Qxc7 Nc6 21.Qxd8+ Kxd8 22.Bxb5 Nxe5 23.Ba5+ Ke7 24.Rc8 f5 25.Bb4+ d6 26.Rxf8 Kxf8 27.Bxd6+ Kf7 28.Bxe5 Nf6 29.O-O Rc8 30.a4 Nd5 31.Ra1 Rc2 32.Bd3 Rd2 33.Bc4 Rc2 34.b3 Ne3 35.Bxe6+ Kxe6 36.Bd4 f4 37.Bxe3 fxe3 38.a5 Kd5 39.a6 Rc8 40.a7 Ra8 41.Kf1 1-0

There's some analysis of the game here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=215&...

Has Nakamura put 6...exd5 out of business??

I like the comment "The passed pawn has a lust to expand."  Grin Has this been translated through a hedge backwards?! Cheesy

Anyway, having looked at this analysis more closely, I'm convinced that 6...exd5 cannot be recommended for Black (on account of 12.Nfxd5!). Even the attempted improvement with 18...Bxd5 doesn't look pleasant. One try not mentioned is 16...c3!?, displacing White's bishop so that after 17.Bxc3 Qd8 18.Qc4 Ra7, the move 19.Rc1 lacks punch. However, instead White has 19.Qd4! Rb7 (19...Ra8 20.Nb6 Ra7 21.Nc4 with ideas of Ba5/Nd6+) 20.bxa6 Nc6 21.Qe4 Rb8 (if White's bishop was still on d2, Black would have 21...Rxb2) 22.b4 Nge7 23.Ne3 with 3 BIG pawns for the piece. So I don't think 16...c3!? rescues the line.
  
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MNb
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Re: Benko book
Reply #20 - 02/07/10 at 00:43:44
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That was my first thought as well as White usually wants his knights on c3 and c4. Like you on the previous page I am worried about Black opening the centre with ...e6. I am also a bit unsure about Vaisser's exchange plan. Fritz and Rybka grant White a clear advantage, but all those pawns on White squares make me worry. Practice needed, I guess.
Unlike Markovich I am not won over yet.
  
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Stigma
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Re: Benko book
Reply #19 - 02/06/10 at 14:41:11
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MNb wrote on 02/05/10 at 03:26:10:

Vaisser once played 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 b5 4.cxb5 a6 5.f3 g6 6.e4 Bg7 7.Nc3 0-0 8.Be3 d6 9.Qd2 with the idea of exchanging Black's important Bg7. After 9...Re8 White might just play 10.bxa6 and continue development?


Thanks for the suggestion. I'm a bit unsure about standard Benko type positions where White has neither a knight on f3 nor a pawn on f4; it seems White needs the positional threat of the e4-e5 break always hanging over Black's head to "compensate" for the play on the a- and b-files. At least that's Bologan's logic (following his trainer Lanka) on his King's Indian DVD, playing with ...a6, c5 and b5 against many slower White setups.

At least in your line Black has wasted a tempo on ...Re8 if he later plays ...Reb8, so maybe it's OK for White.

The Pinski book strangely doesn't mention 7.Nc3 at all, focusing instead on 7.Na3 keeping c3 free for the other knight.
  
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MNb
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Re: Benko book
Reply #18 - 02/05/10 at 03:26:10
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Stigma wrote on 02/04/10 at 09:17:36:
I've been aware of that Nakamura game for a while, but I still haven't taken up 5.f3 because I'm worried about 5...g6 6.e4 Bg7, Black playing without an early ...d6. This seems like just the kind of dynamic line Benko players are after, and Pinski found it playable iirc.

White is supposed to maoeuvre his knights to c4 and c3 probably, but that takes time and meanwhile Black is opening the centre with ...e6. Any good suggestions against this?


Vaisser once played 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 b5 4.cxb5 a6 5.f3 g6 6.e4 Bg7 7.Nc3 0-0 8.Be3 d6 9.Qd2 with the idea of exchanging Black's important Bg7. After 9...Re8 White might just play 10.bxa6 and continue development?
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Stigma
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Re: Benko book
Reply #17 - 02/04/10 at 21:10:44
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... and how would you guys meet 5.f3 g6?
  
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Re: Benko book
Reply #16 - 02/04/10 at 14:39:57
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No, that it's a speed game shouldn't matter.  All that counts is its theoretical significance.  Further the game shows some really sparkling play by White.
  
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Paul Cumbers
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Re: Benko book
Reply #15 - 02/04/10 at 11:42:35
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baeron wrote on 02/04/10 at 00:10:38:
at the very least one wonders why this game hasn't made it to chesspublishing...   Shocked

Well, it was a rapid game, but I suppose that shouldn't matter. By the way, Nakamura said this about the game on his blog ( http://www.hikarunakamura.com/main/Blog/tabid/57/EntryId/44/Cap-DAgde-2008.aspx ):

"In the blitz, Maxime had the misfortune of walking into some very deep preparation I had done on the Benko prior to the tournament."

I think that's a promising sign for 5.f3, i.e. Nakamura had prepared it, so it wasn't just a random blitz move to unsettle the opponent at the board.
  
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Paul Cumbers
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Re: Benko book
Reply #14 - 02/04/10 at 11:16:54
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Markovich wrote on 02/04/10 at 00:03:47:
Well I'll tell you what, Paul, if 6...exd5 is out of business, then 5.f3 is in business and not only that, but I'm a 5.f3 player again.  Which suits me fine since 5.f3 has always smelled like a refutation to me.

Interesting! It would be good to get your thoughts on 5.f3 e6 6.e4 c4!? (given in "Dangerous Weapons", so I hear). I recently played my first serious game against the Benko, and although I managed to win with that Rb1 stuff, I don't think it suited me. So I've been looking for something slightly different that gets Black a little "off piste", and was inspired by Sheldon v Sowray. It felt like there should be more there for White, and then I hit on the piece sac line. Maybe 5.f3 is the move for me!

Quote:
Say, off topic, I saw a nice anti-QGA game of yours with 3.e4 e5 and subsequently White's b4 against the c5 bishop, in my data base.  Pretty good chess, that.

Thanks  Cool. That was one of my better games! Smiley
  
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Stigma
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Re: Benko book
Reply #13 - 02/04/10 at 09:17:36
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I've been aware of that Nakamura game for a while, but I still haven't taken up 5.f3 because I'm worried about 5...g6 6.e4 Bg7, Black playing without an early ...d6. This seems like just the kind of dynamic line Benko players are after, and Pinski found it playable iirc.

White is supposed to maoeuvre his knights to c4 and c3 probably, but that takes time and meanwhile Black is opening the centre with ...e6. Any good suggestions against this?
  
Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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baeron
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Re: Benko book
Reply #12 - 02/04/10 at 00:10:38
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at the very least one wonders why this game hasn't made it to chesspublishing...   Shocked
  
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