Accolon wrote on 02/14/13 at 01:53:42:


I don't get it. White hardly ever plays 4.dxc5?!, since Black can get lines similar to the 3...a6 and 3...Be7 lines with (almost) a tempo saved. So you can't base a repertoire on White playing that.

The main lines are 4.exd5 and 4.Ngf3 (which often end up in the same main lines).

Markovich wrote on 04/03/07 at 17:11:00:


I vaguely figured there was something like that (I probably know less about the KG than any other opening).  Not sure I'd want to call that an "IQP position"* ...but since I wasn't so specific in my challenge to the campers, perhaps I should go stand in a corner. 

*Maybe "passed IQP," though I don't recall ever seeing that term.  Reminds me of some lines of the 3...Nf6 Tarrasch French if Black plays ...e5 (or a "fancy" version like 4. e5 Nfd7 5. Bd3 c5 6. c3 Nc6 7. Ne2 Qb6 8. Nf3 cd 9. cd f6 10. ef Nxf6 11. 0-0 Bd6 12. b3 0-0 13. Bf4 Bxf4 14. Nxf4 Nxd4 and ...e5).

Markovich wrote on 04/03/07 at 14:23:47:


This reminds me how, I believe, 1. d4 d4 2. c4 dc 3. e3 e5 (or 3. Nc3 e5 4. e3) used to be considered equal, but is now considered slightly better for White.  (I believe Dvoretsky did a chapter on that titled something like "You were right, Mr. LaBourdonnais").  Then there's that thing where this kind of QGA sort of magically transposes to the Petroff (or vice-versa) after about 10 moves.  Of course 4. c4 in the Exchange French can amount to the same thing if Black plays a rather obliging early ...dc ...

I once challenged a group of students at a chess camp to name an opening for which I couldn't give a standard variation leading to an IQP position.  After a number of unsuccessful tries (e.g. for the Ruy I used 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Bc5 4. 0-0 Nge7 5. c3 Bb6 6. d4 ed 7. cd d5 8. ed Nxd5), somebody finally stumped me ...with the King's Gambit   

kylemeister wrote on 03/30/07 at 17:25:29:


It's funny that theoreticians often poo-poo these "reversed IQP" ideas.  For example, not long ago I saw that the Reversed Tarrasch against the Gruenfeld was denigrated in New in Chess Yearbook.  Something about the tempo being of no use.  I can sort of understand that in the Reversed Leningrad, but nobody can tell me that in a standard IQP position, the tempo is of no use!

MNb wrote on 03/29/07 at 20:18:38:


Yes indeed, I do recommend this to my students.  In this way, White can insist on an open game, which is good for young and improving players.  There are some fine points to consider though, for example, that White often should meet ...Bg4 with Qb3 -- even at the expense of a doubled f-pawn.  Also the sacrifice of a pawn on e3, when ...Qe7+ or ...Re8+ is met by Be3, and then ...Ng4 or ...Nd5 is met by 0-0!, is an important theme that even some strong players aren't aware of.

It's not a totally stock IQP position, of course, since Black has a c-pawn, not an e-pawn.  I mean, of course it is an IQP position, but in the IQP discussions you usually encounter, the opponent has an e-pawn.

Markovich is momentarily befuddled; the book he's thinking of bears the silly title "Winning Pawn Structures" ("Pawn Structure Chess" is by Soltis) ...

Speaking of 4. c4 in the Exchange French, I think it's kind of neat how White can play for a reversed Tarrasch French, with the idea of using the extra tempo to fight more effectively for control of d5 (d4 in the regular Tarrasch case).  Compare e.g. 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 c5 4. ed ed 5. Ngf3 Nc6 6. Bb5 Bd6 7. dc Bxc5 8. 0-0 Nge7 9. Nb3 Bb6 10. Re1 (followed by Be3) and 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. ed ed 4. c4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Bb4 6. Bd3 0-0 7. Nge2 dc 8. Bxc4 Nbd7 9. 0-0 Nb6 10. Bb3 Re8 11. Nf4.

everalexfor wrote on 03/28/07 at 19:40:05:


kylemeister is right, the IQP position you propose is quite good for Black.  If I recall the German correctly, Tarrasch was right when he said, Wenn mann einen isolierten Damenbauer niemals haben will, er muss nicht Schach spielen!.  Buburin has a good book on IQP, which I think is called Pawn Structure Chess.  In any case, I think how to play with the IQP is one of the first things that an improving player should learn.  Play the Tarrasch Defense, for example.  Get a copy of Aagaard's Meeting 1. d4.

Or read up on the Panov Attack vs. the Caro (or the white side of the Semi-Tarrasch, which is much the same thing) and the white side of the QGA.  Or the Nimzo with 4. e3.

Hey I was playing the Tarrasch as white and kept coming into problems with the line 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 c5 4.exd5 Qxd5.  My main problem was that I had studied the lines with 4...exd5 where after 5.dxc5, black has an isolated pawn and white can continue from there.  I particularly enjoy playing against the isolated d-pawn, so I was very upset when my opponents played 4...Qxd5.  I studied the position and realized that white can force the isolated pawn with 4.dxc5 Bxc5 5.Nb3 Bb6 6.exd5 where now if 6...Qxd5 then 7.Qxd5 exd5, with an isolated pawn, or simply 6...exd5, with an isolated pawn.  If black tries for the tricky 6..Nf6 hoping for 7.dxe6? Bxf7!, then white can simply play 7.Bg5, and still gets the isolated pawn.  

Any thoughts on this line?  I know it is not the main line in the c5 Tarrasch (relatively rare in fact), and I was wondering why?  It seems very strong.  Am I missing something?