I'd guessed as much : a child would have played more sensible moves.

Yes, thnaks for the game but I already had them. I'm actually asking if someone had any ideas on how to play in this variation, not just to someone to show me moves played by others without any indications on their value.

Now, don't get me wrong, I appreciate your input but to discover that I'm the only one left playing this line is quiet a shock to me.

parisestmagique wrote on 04/05/07 at 07:21:29:


Consider the following game

[Event "Manresa op"]
[Site "Manresa"]
[Date "1997.??.??"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Movsziszian,Karen"]
[Black "Gracia Vergara,Ferran"]
[Result "1/2"]
[Eco "A80"]
1.d4 f5 2.g4 d5 3.g5 e6 4.Nf3 c5 5.c3 Nc6 6.h4 Qc7 7.Bg2 Bd7 8.Kf1 0-0-0 9.dxc5 Bxc5 10.b4 Bd6 11.a4 Ne5 12.Nd4 Nc4 13.Nd2 Ne7 14.Nb5 Bxb5 15.axb5 Qb6 16.Nxc4 dxc4 17.Qa4 f4 18.e3 Rhf8 19.Ke2 Bb8 20.Rh3 Nd5 21.Qc2 Qd6 22.Bxd5 Qxd5 23.exf4 Bxf4 24.Rxa7 Bb8 25.Be3 Qg2 26.Qa2 Qg4+ 27.f3 Qg2+ 28.Ke1 Bg3+ 29.Rxg3 Qxg3+ 30.Bf2 Qe5+ 31.Kf1 Qd5 32.Ra8+ Kd7 33.Rxd8+ Rxd8 34.Kg2 Rf8 35.Qe2 Qd3 36.Qe4 Qxe4 37.fxe4 g6 38.Bg3 e5 39.Bxe5 Re8 40.Bg3 Rxe4 41.Kf3 Re7 42.Bf4  1/2

ehpotsirhc wrote on 04/05/07 at 18:54:34:


Most Dutch books reference the following game for above variation:

[Event "Linares Anibal op 3rd"]
[Site "Linares"]
[Date "1996.01.??"]
[Round "0"]
[White "Tregubov,Pavel V"]
[Black "Malaniuk,Vladimir P"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "A80"]
1.d4 f5 2.g4 fxg4 3.h3 g3 4.fxg3 Nf6 5.Nc3 d5 6.Bg2 e6 7.Nf3 Bd6 8.Ne5 c5 
9.Bf4 Nh5 10.0-0 0-0 11.e3 Nxf4 12.exf4 Nc6 13.Nxc6 bxc6 14.Kh2 Ba6 15.Re1 Qf6 16.dxc5 Bxc5 
17.Qd2 Rae8 18.Rab1 h6 19.b4 Qd4 20.Qxd4 Bxd4 21.Nd1 g5 22.fxg5 hxg5 23.a4 Bc4 24.c3 Bg7 
25.b5 cxb5 26.axb5 Rf7 27.b6 Rb7 28.Ne3 Rxb6 29.Rxb6 axb6 30.Nxd5 b5 31.Re3 Rd8 32.Nb6 Bb3 
33.Bf1 Rd6 34.Nc8 Rd2+ 35.Re2 Rd1 36.Rf2 Bxc3 37.Ne7+ Kg7 38.Bxb5 Bd4 39.Rf3 Rd2+ 40.Kh1 Ba2 
41.Rd3 Rxd3 42.Bxd3 Kf7 43.Ng6 Bd5+ 44.Kh2 e5 45.Bf5 e4 46.h4 e3 47.Bd3 Be4 0-1


Sometimes White decides to play g4 with the intention of deflecting the f-pawn's influence on the center so that e2-e4 can be played. Quite a few sources, i.e. Beim, now quote the following game for a possible black setup, which suits me since I am playing the French as well.

[Event "USA op"]
[Site "Aspen"]
[Date "1968.??.??"]
[Round "0"]
[White "Callinan,Michael"]
[Black "Saidy,Anthony Fred"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "A80"]
1.d4 f5 2.g4 fxg4 3.e4 d5 4.e5 Bf5 5.Nc3 c5 6.Bb5+ Nc6 7.Bxc6+ bxc6 8.Nge2 e6 
9.Be3 Ne7 10.a3 Ng6 11.Na4 Nh4 12.0-0 Nf3+ 13.Kh1 Be4 0-1

Certainly not a perfect game, but it goes give you some ideas on how to handle this variation.



If you decide not to accept the pawn with 2. ... fg4 and decide to play 2. ...d5 instead, you might want to have a look at the following game, which is also often quoted in a number of books about the Dutch.


[Event "Alekhine op"]
[Site "Moscow"]
[Date "1996.??.??"]
[Round "6"]
[White "Tregubov,Pavel V"]
[Black "Malaniuk,Vladimir P"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "A80"]
1.d4 f5 2.g4 d5 3.Qd3 g6 4.gxf5 Bxf5 5.Qb5+ Nc6 6.c3 Qd6 7.Bh3 Bxh3 8.Nxh3 0-0-0 
9.Bf4 Qd7 10.Qd3 Bg7 11.Nd2 e5 12.dxe5 Nxe5 13.Bxe5 Bxe5 14.Ng5 Bg7 15.Nb3 Qe7 16.Qh3+ Kb8 
17.Qe3 Qxe3 18.fxe3 Rd7 19.Rd1 Nf6 20.Rf1 Re7 21.Nc5 Rhe8 22.e4 c6 23.Rd2 b6 24.e5 Ng4 
25.Nd3 Nxe5 26.Nxe5 Bxe5 27.h3 Kc7 28.Kd1 h6 29.Nf3 Bf4 30.Rc2 g5 31.Rf2 Be3 32.Rg2 b5 
33.b3 a5 34.c4 bxc4 35.bxc4 Rb8 36.Rc3 Rb1+ 37.Kc2 Rc1+ 38.Kb2 Rxc3 39.Kxc3 Re6 40.Kd3 Re4 
41.Nh2 Bf4 0-1


In summary you have two options, don't take the pawn and play d5, or take the pawn and return it with g3 as a response to h3 keeping lines closed.

parisestmagique wrote on 04/05/07 at 07:21:29:


I would suggest 3...c5, since 4. dxc5 is very well met by 4...e5.  What does White have, 4. c4!? perhaps?

A strong guy (at least in Blitz) always plays this line with white 1.d4 f5 2.g4 d5 3.g5 maybe not a terrific idea but Black has trouble developping his g8 knight.

Have a look at the following game; I am not saying that it is perfect, but it might give you some ideas


[Event "Dresden ZMD op"]
[Site "Dresden"]
[Date "2003.07.25"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Sechting,Martin"]
[Black "Mainka,Romuald"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "A80"]
1.d4 f5 2.h3 Nf6 3.g4 d5 4.g5 Ne4 5.Nf3 e6 6.Bf4 c5 7.e3 Nc6 8.Nbd2 Bd6 
9.Bb5 Bxf4 10.exf4 cxd4 11.Ne5 0-0 12.Bxc6 bxc6 13.Nxc6 Qd6 14.Ne5 Ba6 15.a3 Qb6 16.Nd7 Qxb2 
17.Rb1 Qc3 18.Nxf8 Rxf8 19.Rb3 Qa5 20.Rb4 Qxa3 21.Rxd4 Nc3 22.Nb1 Nxb1 23.Qxb1 Qf3 24.Kd2 Qxf2+ 
25.Kc3 Rc8+ 0-1

Once home, I will have a look at what Kindermann and Beim are recommending

glsix wrote on 04/02/07 at 10:35:59:

He should give up!!