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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Super GM plays the Dragon again! (Read 17411 times)
parisestmagique
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Re: Super GM plays the Dragon again!
Reply #28 - 12/06/07 at 16:31:17
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Interesting idea (h5) but after : 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cd4: 4.Nd4: Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 0-0 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.Bc4 Bd7 10.0-0-0 Rc8 11.Bb3 Ne5 12.h5 or 12.Kb1 are maybe more critical than 12.Be2
  
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FightingDragon
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Re: Super GM plays the Dragon again!
Reply #27 - 12/06/07 at 14:27:33
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Generally black tries to play without Ne5-c4, if possible.
You are right that in some variations white wins a tempo compared to the old 12.h4 Nc4- mainline.
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cd4: 4.Nd4: Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 0-0 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.Bc4 Bd7 10.0-0-0 Rc8 11.Bb3 Ne5 12.h4 Nc4 13.Bc4: Rc4: 14.g4 h5.
These positions are Ok for black, and the question is now if the extra tempo makes an impact.

In the 9. 0-0-0 Bd7-line, black holds back Nc4 as long as possible, but at some point I guess he has to play it:
9.0-0-0 Bd7 10.g4 Rc8 11.h4 Ne5 12.Be2! h5!? 13.gh5: Nh5: 14.Rhg1 now white threatens 15. Bh6, so:
14. ... Nc4 15.Bc4 Rc4: attacking d4 and preventing Bh6.
  
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Re: Super GM plays the Dragon again!
Reply #26 - 12/05/07 at 21:09:46
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To me this just looks like White winning an important tempo with Bf1-e2xc4 iso Bf1-c4-b3xc4.
  

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parisestmagique
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Re: Super GM plays the Dragon again!
Reply #25 - 12/05/07 at 17:10:28
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White does not allow this possibilty to defend with Rf7, in this game white plays Bh6 before taking hxg6 : 9.000 Bd7 10.h4 Rc8 11.Be2 Ne5 12.g4 b5 13.h5 Nc4 14.Bxc4 bxc4 15.Bh6
  
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FightingDragon
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Re: Super GM plays the Dragon again!
Reply #24 - 12/05/07 at 15:16:44
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bragesjo wrote on 08/30/07 at 19:20:39:
In Wards new update he shows Mason-Ward and gives several moves ? marks for example 15 hxg6 for white and 12 __ b5 for black.


That's interesting. I looked again at 9. ... Bd7 and found that the Gaponenko-idea really holds promise for black. For those who don't know what I'm talking about:
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 Nf6 4. Nc3 cxd4 5. Nxd4 g6 6. Be3 Bg7 7. f3 O-O 8. Qd2 Nc6 9.0-0-0 Bd7 10.g4 Rc8 11.h4 Ne5 12.h5 Qa5 13.Nb3 Qc7 14.Be2 b5 15.Kb1 Qb7!

But it seems better for white to play like Mason: 12.Be2! 
If Chris now gives 12. ... b5 a question mark, what is better?
After 12. ... Qa5 13.Kb1! black is in a quasi-zugzwang situation, this position is extremely unpleasant.
Another idea could be 12. ... h5!?, but it also looks suspicious to me, Golubev gives 13.Rdg1 for white.
  
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Re: Super GM plays the Dragon again!
Reply #23 - 08/31/07 at 05:45:24
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robl wrote on 08/15/07 at 21:34:53:
FightingDragon: you' right of course, white hasn't exchanged pawns by move 15. 15.Bh6 does look winning. I guess a better plan is 12...Qa5 as in Dearing's book or 13....Qa5 but avoid Nc4.

thibdb13: Your idea is interesting, here Chris Duncan never castles in this variation and wins
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1008636

Thanks for the information. I like this game. The pin of the white queen is very nice!
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Re: Super GM plays the Dragon again!
Reply #22 - 08/30/07 at 19:20:39
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In Wards new update he shows Mason-Ward and gives several moves ? marks for example 15 hxg6 for white and 12 __ b5 for black.
  
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Re: Super GM plays the Dragon again!
Reply #21 - 08/15/07 at 21:34:53
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FightingDragon: you' right of course, white hasn't exchanged pawns by move 15. 15.Bh6 does look winning. I guess a better plan is 12...Qa5 as in Dearing's book or 13....Qa5 but avoid Nc4.

thibdb13: Your idea is interesting, here Chris Duncan never castles in this variation and wins
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1008636
« Last Edit: 08/16/07 at 01:49:23 by robl »  
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rooksway18
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Re: Super GM plays the Dragon again!
Reply #20 - 08/15/07 at 16:56:25
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Maybe Chris will analyze his game with Donald Mason in the next update!
  
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FightingDragon
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Re: Super GM plays the Dragon again!
Reply #19 - 08/15/07 at 11:25:17
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@robl: It is logical that white loses to 9. ... Bd2 as it wins the queen  Wink
The problem with the line you give is that it's not possible! this is often a white attacking idea in the dragon to delay hg6: as long as possible to avoid Rf7 or the escape of the king to e8.
So white plays 15.Bh6! when black has big problems.

@rooksway18: I had a game with 13.Ndb5: which was actually the last one where I played 9. ... Bd7 as black, white ate my pawn, and mated me anyway a few moves later, because his attack was faster regardless. 13.Ncb5: could be similar, there is also a game by Nigel Short with white.

The reason why I don't play 9. ... Bd7 anymore is that white has a choice how to get an advantage, e.g. see Experts vs. Sicilian. Perhaps my point of view is too negative for black because I know too much about the variation. So perhaps it is playable if white doesn't know much about the variation.
  
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Re: Chris Ward wins with 9...Bd7
Reply #18 - 08/15/07 at 07:20:45
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robl wrote on 08/12/07 at 00:52:15:
From the British Championships
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1469061

Another very wild game with 9.....Bd7, the move that "just looks wrong".




In the line from the Mason-Ward game, I've always wondered how black should handle 13.Ncxb5. Anyone have analysis to share? Chess engines seems to always favor white in these positions.  I guess I should just try the line for black over the board.
  
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thibdb13
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Re: Super GM plays the Dragon again!
Reply #17 - 08/15/07 at 06:58:34
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FightingDragon wrote on 08/13/07 at 19:13:59:
I also was extremely suspicious when I saw the game.
Ok, black won nicely, but you can't play that way against a strong player (let's say above 2400), 
because he will kill you.
So I don't understand why somebody like Chris Ward who knows so much about the dragon plays such a bad variation. Perhaps he wanted to avoid white scraping a draw in the 9.0-0-0 d5 lines, which are much better, but also much more drawish than 9. ... Bd7.
So in a way 9. ... Bd7 is a good way to play for a win (or for a loss  Wink, depending on your opponent's strength).

I would Bd7 is good if black does not castle too early. I plaid many games letting my King on e8 where white already started his Kingside attack (being I would castle in the next (few) move(s)) and won them all. These were of course games at 1800-1900 level. I have the impression that this ways spares black one usefull tempo to develop play on the Q-side
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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thibdb13
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Re: Super GM plays the Dragon again!
Reply #16 - 08/15/07 at 06:53:04
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robl wrote on 08/15/07 at 03:37:33:
Sorry for the typos I've obviously meant Bd7 not Bd2 for Blacks 9th move.

Don't worry, the most of us understood what you mean Smiley
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Re: Super GM plays the Dragon again!
Reply #15 - 08/15/07 at 03:37:33
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Sorry for the typos I've obviously meant Bd7 not Bd2 for Blacks 9th move.
  
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Re: Super GM plays the Dragon again!
Reply #14 - 08/15/07 at 02:03:13
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after 15.Bh6 why not BxB 16.QxB Rf7
Since I play the 9...Bd7 line often I have often defended positions similar to this. I don't see a quick breakthrough for White. I'm only about 1800 USCF but I note that Mason is a master and Stripunsky (who lost to Nakamura) is rated 2569. And super GMs Morozovich and Asrian have both lost to 9...Bd2!?
  
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