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Normal Topic (CK) Gurgenidze (Read 4780 times)
kylemeister
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Re: (CK) Gurgenidze
Reply #7 - 08/26/07 at 21:56:11
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Yes (sort of).  It would seem that maybe Black could try to make use of not having committed his bishop to g7 (against the e5-plus-f4 system he would often later redeploy it via f8, thus costing two tempi; that's part of the raison d'être of the above-mentioned "Accelerated Gurg[enidze]," 1. e4 g6 2. d4 d6 3. Nc3 c6 4. f4 d5), but it's not clear to me how.  So it may seem that after 1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 g6 4. e5, Black wouldn't want to play 4...Bg7, and one might think that he wouldn't want to play ...h5 until White has played f4.  I might wonder if 4...Qb6 could have some sense (perhaps meeting 5. f4 with ...h5 and 5. Nf3 with ...Bg4); ECO only mentions 4...Bg7 and 4...h5, thinking each should lead to += (and indeed, on 4...Bg7 White plays 5. f4, while on 4...h5, he plays without it).
  
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Viking
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Re: (CK) Gurgenidze
Reply #6 - 08/26/07 at 20:27:21
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Thanks for the replies so far. I have been too busy lately with non chessrelated activities to think much about this...

But to maybe clear things up - I was looking for an alternative to my 4-,Bf5 mainline as a surprise weapon. Thus starting with the modern move order isnt something for me.

As kylemeister says, 3.Nd2 unfortunately can be used to limit blacks counterplay if black still insists to play the gurgenidze....


Back to my original question - I find it interesting that Khalifman(in the Anand series) suggests 
- a setup with e4/d4/Nc3 & f4 when meeting the gurgenidze through the modern moveorder
but instead
- e4/d4/Nc3/Nf3/h3 when the gurgenidze arises by a CK.

I wonder why Huh
Cant white select the same "modern" setup by playing 4.e5 & f4!?

I dont have El khalif's book btw.

  
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JEH
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Re: (CK) Gurgenidze
Reply #5 - 08/19/07 at 09:25:03
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If you are going to play in non contact style with c6/d6/d5/g6 and Gurg whatever, it doesn't matter much from Black's perspective what order you play them. You can throw in a Bg7 at some point too, unless you want to do an "Accelerated Gurg"

So the choice depends on your oveall Black repertoire. For a Modern player, g6 first maintains most flexibility. Though the d pawn often goes to d6, it helps to keep some flexibility for d5 if you want the Gurg to be part of your repetoire. For the c file, c6 is a commitment as Nc6 and c5 options are now for the most part ruled out.

   

  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

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Re: (CK) Gurgenidze
Reply #4 - 08/19/07 at 03:02:47
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I have always thought that the gurgenidge is a part of the modern defence with 1. e4 g6 2. d4 Bg7 3.Nc3 c6 4. f4 d5 5.e5 h5 when black plays for a blockade on the white squares. Interestingly in "the Modern Defence" Keene and Botteril Batsford 1972 the author's were not sure as to whether they should include this system as it is too close to the Caro-Kann. 

In my opinion I think that if black does not force Nc3 then white should play c4. Of course this leads into some variant of the King's Indian Benoni complex.
  

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Re: (CK) Gurgenidze
Reply #3 - 08/15/07 at 20:32:42
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Quote:
After 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3/Nd2 
3-,dxe4 is the standard "CK move".

Is there anything wrong with the gurgenidze (3-,g6) these days?

When I see the gurgenidze, it almost always starts with the modern(1-,g6) moveorder.
Does white have some additional possibilities when black is using the CK moveorder?


Well, there are the obvious deviations like 3.exd5 and 3.f3, but that is not your question I suppose.
1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 g6 4.f3 Bg7 is not such a good verion of the 3.f3 variation.
Overall I think White can prove a sound += against the Gurgenidze, both with 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.h3 and 4.e5 Bg7 5.f4. The key in the latter is to start a queenside attack with b3 and c4.
An advantage of the C-K move order might be, that Black can delay ...Bg7, eg 4.e5 h5 5.f4 Bg4. It has been long since I have looked at this.
  

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kylemeister
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Re: (CK) Gurgenidze
Reply #2 - 08/15/07 at 19:58:55
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As far as I know, 3...g6 has always been considered dubious after 3. Nd2, due to White having c3 at his disposal to bolster d4.
  
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nyoke
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Re: (CK) Gurgenidze
Reply #1 - 08/15/07 at 19:52:24
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    How do you like this position  :     4.Qf3 dxe4 5.Ne4 Bg7 6.Bc4 Nf6 7.Ne2 Nd7 8.h4
and White has other (attractive) alternatives to e5 such as the simple and efficient 4.f3.
  
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(CK) Gurgenidze
08/15/07 at 18:29:21
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After 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3/Nd2 
3-,dxe4 is the standard "CK move".

Is there anything wrong with the gurgenidze (3-,g6) these days?

When I see the gurgenidze, it almost always starts with the modern(1-,g6) moveorder.
Does white have some additional possibilities when black is using the CK moveorder?
  
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