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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) What is the current state of the schevshnikov? (Read 19300 times)
Strategy_Rules
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Re: What is the current state of the schevshnikov?
Reply #21 - 07/31/08 at 09:43:13
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In "The Easiest Sicilian" Kolev suggests 21. Qh5 Ra7!


The exclamation mark behind Ra7 is funny, because black is almost lost after this move.

Have a look:
http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1214818937
  
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Re: What is the current state of the schevshnikov?
Reply #20 - 07/22/08 at 08:53:26
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Strategy_Rules wrote on 06/20/08 at 18:24:54:
After 21.Qh5 or 21.Qf4 I could not find anything satisfying for black. Can you ?



In "The Easiest Sicilian" Kolev suggests 21. Qh5 Ra7!
  

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Re: What is the current state of the schevshnikov?
Reply #19 - 06/20/08 at 18:24:54
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...e4 17. a4 Re8 18. Qg4 Kh8 19. Rad1 Re5! 20. Ne3 Qf6 (Black's pieces are very active and well placed for the action) 21. Qe2 Rg8! 22. Nc4 Qxf5 23. Nxe5 Bxe5


I agree, this continuation for black has definitely its logic. However, it seems that the authers are contend to refute engine moves.
21.Qe2 (?) is very materialistic, a typical engine move. No strong player would play this. White gives black the initiative just for getting a rook for a piece and a pawn. After 21.Qh5 or 21.Qf4 I could not find anything satisfying for black. Can you ?
18.Re1 (18...Re5 Ne3) is also interesting, just to avoid the tactics. Normally endgames with 3 pawns for a piece arise, but in endgames the connected passed pawns are often stronger.
  
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Re: What is the current state of the schevshnikov?
Reply #18 - 06/16/08 at 19:15:40
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exigentsky wrote on 11/12/07 at 21:07:11:
I must have read that wrong. I looked just at the end where it says 11. ...Ne7 but not 10. ...Bg7.


Anyway, the main line goes like this:

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e5 6. Ndb5 d6 7. Bg5 a6 8.
Na3 b5 9. Bxf6 gxf6 10. Nd5 Bg7 11. Bd3 Ne7 12. Nxe7 Qxe7 13. O-O O-O 14. c4 f5
15. Qf3 d5 16. cxd5 fxe4 17. Bxe4 Rb8 18. Rad1 

The sacrificial line is pretty cool too and it seems completely sound:

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e5 6. Ndb5 d6 7. Bg5 a6 8.
Na3 b5 9. Bxf6 gxf6 10. Nd5 Bg7 11. c3 f5 12. Bd3 Be6 13. Nxb5 axb5 14. Bxb5
Bd7 15. exf5 O-O 16. O-O Rb8 17. a4 



In the knight sac line, 16...e4! is definitely better than 16...Rb8?! , which has seen Black struggle quite a bit. Kolev and Nedev give 16...e4 17. a4 Re8 18. Qg4 Kh8 19. Rad1 Re5! 20. Ne3 Qf6 (Black's pieces are very active and well placed for the action) 21. Qe2 Rg8! 22. Nc4 Qxf5 23. Nxe5 Bxe5 with great compensation. They provide further lines, but I'll spare the details. The point is is that instead of playing to stop White on the queenside, Black needs to put his extra piece to work and get active.
  
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Re: What is the current state of the schevshnikov?
Reply #17 - 06/16/08 at 19:11:53
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exigentsky wrote on 09/25/07 at 03:02:07:
I've studied and played almost every Sicilian in the futile search of a favorite. Based on this, I now have only three  Sicilians I'm willing to play consistently (and without move order tricks). The Sveshnikov is one of them, but if White knows exactly what to do, it isn't pretty.

With a knowledgeable White player, Black's winning chances are greatly reduced. White simply has a comfortable edge that extends even into the endgame. It's not as bad as the Maroczy bind, but it's clear who's on top. Black's plans are fairly limited and the positions stereotypical. This may be good for specialization, but it also means that your opponents won't be surprised and that if one line becomes ugly you have nowhere to turn. Here's one line (hopefully with best play) that put me off the Sveshnikov:

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e5 6. Ndb5 d6 7. Bg5 a6 8.
Na3 b5 9. Bxf6 gxf6 10. Nd5 f5 11. Bd3 Be6 12. O-O Bxd5 13. exd5 Ne7 14. c3 Bg7
15. Qh5 e4 16. Be2 O-O 17. Nc2 f4 18. Qg5 f5 19. Rfd1 f3 20. gxf3 Kh8 21. Kh1
Be5

But don't get me wrong, the Sveshnikov is a very good defense and I'd definitely prefer it to the likes of the Caro-Kann or even some French positions. It also has the added advantage of not being too variable based on computer use. It is, to me, more positional than tactical and so it's unlikely that your opponent will prepare a brilliant tactic that will just kill you if you don't know it. I think this is why some GMs like it so much and also why some fear playing the Najdorf or other sharper openings. Just look at Mexico 2007, it is almost all the most symmetrical classical openings against e4.


Exi, 

The writers of the Easiest Sicilian propose 22. f4 Rg8 23. Qh4 Bg7 24. Bh5 Qf8 25. Ne3 Bf6 26. Qh3 Qh6 27. Nxf5 Nxf5 = , with a few deviations along the way.
  
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Re: What is the current state of the schevshnikov?
Reply #16 - 06/16/08 at 15:03:39
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[quote]There are several variations where Black has serious positional problems and his game is not easy [quote]

Yes, I agree with almost all exigentsky wrote. There are some variations where black has serious problems, sometimes problems of strategical and sometimes of tactical type.
Actually I had much more problems finding good recourses for black in the 9.Bxf6-lines.
  
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Re: What is the current state of the schevshnikov?
Reply #15 - 11/12/07 at 21:07:11
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I must have read that wrong. I looked just at the end where it says 11. ...Ne7 but not 10. ...Bg7.


Anyway, the main line goes like this:

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e5 6. Ndb5 d6 7. Bg5 a6 8.
Na3 b5 9. Bxf6 gxf6 10. Nd5 Bg7 11. Bd3 Ne7 12. Nxe7 Qxe7 13. O-O O-O 14. c4 f5
15. Qf3 d5 16. cxd5 fxe4 17. Bxe4 Rb8 18. Rad1 

The sacrificial line is pretty cool too and it seems completely sound:

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e5 6. Ndb5 d6 7. Bg5 a6 8.
Na3 b5 9. Bxf6 gxf6 10. Nd5 Bg7 11. c3 f5 12. Bd3 Be6 13. Nxb5 axb5 14. Bxb5
Bd7 15. exf5 O-O 16. O-O Rb8 17. a4 

  
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Re: What is the current state of the schevshnikov?
Reply #14 - 11/12/07 at 14:09:02
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@exi : at least you see the point of 10...Bg7
White can recombine the two variations with 11. c3, and then play the main lines or the intriguing sacrifice 10...f5/Bg7 11. c3 Bg7/f5 12. Bd3 Be6 13. Nxb5 !?
  
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Re: What is the current state of the schevshnikov?
Reply #13 - 11/11/07 at 19:30:16
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Maybe you're forgetting something. Ne7 is met by mate in one. Be6 is almost certainly the best move.
  
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Re: What is the current state of the schevshnikov?
Reply #12 - 11/11/07 at 09:22:29
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exigentsky wrote on 09/25/07 at 03:02:07:
I've studied and played almost every Sicilian in the futile search of a favorite. Based on this, I now have only three  Sicilians I'm willing to play consistently (and without move order tricks). The Sveshnikov is one of them, but if White knows exactly what to do, it isn't pretty.

With a knowledgeable White player, Black's winning chances are greatly reduced. White simply has a comfortable edge that extends even into the endgame. It's not as bad as the Maroczy bind, but it's clear who's on top. Black's plans are fairly limited and the positions stereotypical. This may be good for specialization, but it also means that your opponents won't be surprised and that if one line becomes ugly you have nowhere to turn. Here's one line (hopefully with best play) that put me off the Sveshnikov:

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e5 6. Ndb5 d6 7. Bg5 a6 8.Na3 b5 9. Bxf6 gxf6 10. Nd5 f5 11. Bd3 Be6 12. O-O Bxd5 13. exd5 Ne7 14. c3 Bg7 15. Qh5 e4 16. Be2 O-O 17. Nc2 f4 18. Qg5 f5 19. Rfd1 f3 20. gxf3 Kh8 21. Kh1
Be5 ...


The problem with this line is that 10...Bg7 11.Bd3 Ne7 is better. IMO anyway. And Rogozenko's.
  
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Re: What is the current state of the schevshnikov?
Reply #11 - 11/10/07 at 04:21:03
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Hello!

My first post here on the site.  I seem to have a lot against the positional line (9. Nd5) which had now probably taken over as the main line. (Im not sure though)  What are some recommendations? Usually I go into the main line with 9... Be7 10. Bxf6 Bxf6 11. c3 Bg5  12. Nc2 and usually 0-0 now.
  
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Re: What is the current state of the schevshnikov?
Reply #10 - 11/07/07 at 19:55:05
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No one has been able to trouble them? Maybe if they're delusional. There are several variations where Black has serious positional problems and his game is not easy. The line I gave above is one example.
  
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Re: What is the current state of the schevshnikov?
Reply #9 - 11/07/07 at 18:16:18
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megazord wrote on 08/22/07 at 14:42:44:
Is the schveshnikov still playable? Why has it disappeared from top level practice?  Is there a line that gives black a impossible defensive task? 


The Sveshnikov is still very playable, and has NOT disappeared from top level chess.
The leading expert of the variation nowadays is with no doubt Teimour Radjabov of Azerbaijan, you should have a look at his games!

In fact, nobody has for the last couple of years been able to trouble the Sveshnikov players, therefore a lot of 1.e4 players has started playing anti-sveshnikovs like 3.Bb5 and 3.Nc3.

One of the reasons might be that when the theory ends, the position very often appears somewhat drawish. Another reason is that it's very hard to squeeze out an opening advantage in the Sveshnikov lines.

But Anand and Karjakin is obviously not very afraid of playing the mainlines.
  

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Re: What is the current state of the schevshnikov?
Reply #8 - 09/25/07 at 03:02:07
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I've studied and played almost every Sicilian in the futile search of a favorite. Based on this, I now have only three  Sicilians I'm willing to play consistently (and without move order tricks). The Sveshnikov is one of them, but if White knows exactly what to do, it isn't pretty.

With a knowledgeable White player, Black's winning chances are greatly reduced. White simply has a comfortable edge that extends even into the endgame. It's not as bad as the Maroczy bind, but it's clear who's on top. Black's plans are fairly limited and the positions stereotypical. This may be good for specialization, but it also means that your opponents won't be surprised and that if one line becomes ugly you have nowhere to turn. Here's one line (hopefully with best play) that put me off the Sveshnikov:

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e5 6. Ndb5 d6 7. Bg5 a6 8.
Na3 b5 9. Bxf6 gxf6 10. Nd5 f5 11. Bd3 Be6 12. O-O Bxd5 13. exd5 Ne7 14. c3 Bg7
15. Qh5 e4 16. Be2 O-O 17. Nc2 f4 18. Qg5 f5 19. Rfd1 f3 20. gxf3 Kh8 21. Kh1
Be5

But don't get me wrong, the Sveshnikov is a very good defense and I'd definitely prefer it to the likes of the Caro-Kann or even some French positions. It also has the added advantage of not being too variable based on computer use. It is, to me, more positional than tactical and so it's unlikely that your opponent will prepare a brilliant tactic that will just kill you if you don't know it. I think this is why some GMs like it so much and also why some fear playing the Najdorf or other sharper openings. Just look at Mexico 2007, it is almost all the most symmetrical classical openings against e4.
  
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Re: What is the current state of the schevshnikov?
Reply #7 - 08/23/07 at 08:07:46
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I think at the top level- it's not as popular as it was because the 9 Nd5 lines seem to give white an easier position to play and it's not that easy to unbalance the positions compared to the 9Bf6 lines. I'd also mention that defending the Marshall (or at least threatening to unleash it) as Black seems to be the defence of choice of the elite. It's a lot easier to defend that than a Sveshnikov because positionally if it goes wrong you have a bad game ! 

However all is not lost since Karjakin lost with white to Yakovich in a theoretically critical line ! I also recall Shirov losing a few games as well with white !

I agree that the Najdorf seems to generate more unbalanced play and potential winning lines now than the Sveshnikov.
  
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