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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Everyman on the Saėmisch variation of the KI (Read 38634 times)
bulgroz
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Re: Everyman on the Saėmisch variation of the KI
Reply #52 - 07/16/08 at 11:16:28
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Ouf......
I'm not crazy after all  Wink
  
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trw
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Re: Everyman on the Saėmisch variation of the KI
Reply #51 - 07/16/08 at 02:16:43
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bulgroz wrote on 07/15/08 at 08:39:35:
ErictheRed wrote on 07/14/08 at 18:20:05:
I realize that most people here have a rather low opinion of this book, but I noticed that it got 5 "stars" (!) when reviewed on www.chesscafe.com.



I checked on chesscafe web site and it seems you're right but...it is quite strange because I remember that the book had been given only one star ?  Cheesy



I also thought it got only one star...
  
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bulgroz
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Re: Everyman on the Saėmisch variation of the KI
Reply #50 - 07/15/08 at 08:39:35
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ErictheRed wrote on 07/14/08 at 18:20:05:
I realize that most people here have a rather low opinion of this book, but I noticed that it got 5 "stars" (!) when reviewed on www.chesscafe.com.



I checked on chesscafe web site and it seems you're right but...it is quite strange because I remember that the book had been given only one star ?  Cheesy
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: Everyman on the Saėmisch variation of the KI
Reply #49 - 07/14/08 at 21:18:25
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The coverage of the 9.h4 Panno is one of the bright spots of the book.  As with most of the book, many of the game citations are dated, but there are some places where the coverage updates Gallagher's old book and also some correspondence games that I hadn't seen before.

There are two main games on the 9.h4 Panno.  The first game is a 1992 Karpov-Kindermann game, but the authors cover in the notes what some currently consider to be the critical test of the Panno.  I'm talking about the line 9..h5 10.Nc1 e5 11.d5 Nd4 12.Nb3 c5 13.dxc6 bxc6 14.Nxd4 exd4 15.Bxd4 Re8 16.Be2 d5 and now 17.exd5!  The coverage of this line seems pretty good and includes what appears to be some original analysis.

The other main game covers 9..h5 10.0-0-0.  Its a correspondence game from 1992, which improves on an old Rivas Pastor-Mestel game.  The critical line seems to be 10..b5 11.Bh6 e5 12.Bxg7 Bxg7 13.dxe5 (the authors show why 13.d5 isn't as good; the key is 14..b4! which was not considered by Gallagher) 13..Nxe5 14.cxb5 axb5 15.Nf4 b4 16.Ncd5 Nxd5 17.Nxd5 c5 18.f4 and now 18..Ng4.  Again, the coverage here is good, and the authors comment on most of the principal alternatives along the way.

Hope this helps.  
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Everyman on the Saėmisch variation of the KI
Reply #48 - 07/14/08 at 18:20:05
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I realize that most people here have a rather low opinion of this book, but I noticed that it got 5 "stars" (!) when reviewed on www.chesscafe.com.

My question is about a particular line: how is the coverage on 9.h4 in the Panno?  I have Gallagher's excellent, but it's 13 years old now.  I also quite like Ward's book, but he doesn't cover this line at all (only 9.Nc1)!  So I may buy this book if the coverage of the Panno with 9.h4 is excellent, as I can look to Ward's book for other lines.
  
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ANDREW BRETT
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Re: Everyman on the Saėmisch variation of the KI
Reply #47 - 03/15/08 at 07:58:04
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Perhaps you can post the lines they give since I too would be surprised if this is any good given that not lot seems to have happened in this line for so long and that Gallagher thought this line was pretty poor.
  
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Re: Everyman on the Saėmisch variation of the KI
Reply #46 - 03/08/08 at 18:47:18
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LeeRoth wrote on 02/23/08 at 16:34:41:
There are three games on the ..c5 gambit proper.  By this I mean 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.f3 0-0 6.Be3 c5 7.dxc5 dxc5.   

The authors cover 8.Qxd8 Rxd8 9.Bxc5 Nc6 in two main games, featuring 10.Nd5 and 10.Nge210.Ba3 and some rarer 10th moves are covered in the notes.  Both of the main games are from the 1980s and will be familiar to anyone who has studied this line.  The same goes for 10.Ba3, which cites the old Kramnik-Shirov game.   

The authors do, however, suggest an improvement for White in the 10.Nge2 line, which they suggest puts Black under pressure.  It's a bit hard to believe their claim, as we're talking about a game from 1986 and, if there was a significant improvement, you would think that someone would have found it already and it would have been battle-tested.  But, on its face, their analysis seems reasonable.  (I haven't had a chance to study it yet.)   

The key position is:

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *


when the key lines are 13..Nc2 and 13..Be6 14.Ncd5 Bxd5 15.cxd5! (the big improvement!?).   

One final point, Jeremy Silman criticized the coverage of 8.Bxc5, which is dismissed in a single line as inferior for White.  I think Silman was unfair here, since I agree that this line goes nowhere for White.  Why waste space on it?  Moreover, the line given in the book actually features an improvement for Black over existing lines (at least, according to my database), so the authors should get some credit for this, at least.

I think the book has at least one + (maybe the only one in comparison to Ward's  Controversial Sämisch) and just in the chapter about the c5 gambit. I have the impression that playing Be3 is an amelioration in comparison to Ward's "recommendation" Bf2 (after black has plaid Nc6 and Nd7). Be3 might not be the absolutely best move but it makes a lot of sense. 
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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DoubledPawns
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Re: Everyman on the Saėmisch variation of the KI
Reply #45 - 02/23/08 at 20:29:17
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I found a review on this book: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.freechess.info&langpair=de|en... (the original review was in German, but here is a translation to English). 

Judging from this review, I find it strange that the book attempts to be comprehensive, when judging from this review, it seems to be set more as an introduction.

I would agree that the Controversial Samsich is much better both in terms of an introductory course in the Samisch and in playing the opening at the international level (ironically I haven't bought the book...). 

After reading all the reviews of this book, my conclusion is that the book is not a complete waste of money for players newer to tournaments (on another note, I think this book should have been in a Starting Out format), but the previous books on this system are much more useful. As far as tournament/international players are concerned, you would learn a lot more playing through 50 deeply annotated games in the Samisch from Mega Database.
  

Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something - Plato
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LeeRoth
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Re: Everyman on the Saėmisch variation of the KI
Reply #44 - 02/23/08 at 16:34:41
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There are three games on the ..c5 gambit proper.  By this I mean 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.f3 0-0 6.Be3 c5 7.dxc5 dxc5.  

The authors cover 8.Qxd8 Rxd8 9.Bxc5 Nc6 in two main games, featuring 10.Nd5 and 10.Nge2.  10.Ba3 and some rarer 10th moves are covered in the notes.  Both of the main games are from the 1980s and will be familiar to anyone who has studied this line.  The same goes for 10.Ba3, which cites the old Kramnik-Shirov game.  

The authors do, however, suggest an improvement for White in the 10.Nge2 line, which they suggest puts Black under pressure.  It's a bit hard to believe their claim, as we're talking about a game from 1986 and, if there was a significant improvement, you would think that someone would have found it already and it would have been battle-tested.  But, on its face, their analysis seems reasonable.  (I haven't had a chance to study it yet.)  

The key position is:

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *


when the key lines are 13..Nc2 and 13..Be6 14.Ncd5 Bxd5 15.cxd5! (the big improvement!?).  

One final point, Jeremy Silman criticized the coverage of 8.Bxc5, which is dismissed in a single line as inferior for White.  I think Silman was unfair here, since I agree that this line goes nowhere for White.  Why waste space on it?  Moreover, the line given in the book actually features an improvement for Black over existing lines (at least, according to my database), so the authors should get some credit for this, at least.
  
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Re: Everyman on the Saėmisch variation of the KI
Reply #43 - 02/23/08 at 02:49:28
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Ender wrote on 02/22/08 at 21:03:22:
LeeRoth wrote on 02/22/08 at 19:04:33:

6.Be3 c5 -- p107




This chapter is a CRAP. I don't recommend this book to anyone stronger than 1800. If You listen Chernaev recommendations in c5 line You may quicky  get bad position.
I don't know to whom this book is. This is not 'starting out' and not book for strong players. 
If You want to learn Saemisch buy 'Controversial Samisch King's Indian'.


Very subtle Ender!

Can you post some of their recommendations in the 6.Be3 c5 without 7.d5 chapter? I would be interested to see whether they give any game references after 2003.

If it helps, I can rewrite the chapter and post it Smiley. Only joking...
  

Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something - Plato
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Re: Everyman on the Saėmisch variation of the KI
Reply #42 - 02/22/08 at 21:03:22
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LeeRoth wrote on 02/22/08 at 19:04:33:

6.Be3 c5 -- p107




This chapter is a CRAP. I don't recommend this book to anyone stronger than 1800. If You listen Chernaev recommendations in c5 line You may quicky  get bad position.
I don't know to whom this book is. This is not 'starting out' and not book for strong players. 
If You want to learn Saemisch buy 'Controversial Samisch King's Indian'.
  

2200. Amateur!
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LeeRoth
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Re: Everyman on the Saėmisch variation of the KI
Reply #41 - 02/22/08 at 19:04:33
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Well, I went ahead and bought this book.  I haven't gotten that far into yet, but it's not as bad as some of its reviews.  It's basically a top-line survey of the Saemisch.  It is not a repertoire book; it covers the opening from both sides of the board and appears, so far, to be objective.  The authors make an effort to comment on most of the moves.  

The problem with the book is that it doesn't add much to Gallagher's book, which was published in 1995.  To be fair, the theory on the Saemisch hasn't advanced much since then, and where it has, the authors do note it.  (For example, they note the Lautier-Smirin game thought to be critical for the Panno.)  But, thus far, I have been disappointed in that I haven't learned anything new from this book.  The authors certainly aren't giving away any of their own secrets here!  

The comparison to Ward's book is more difficult.  I liked Ward's book better than this one, but Ward's book is closer to a repertoire book and does not cover all the lines I play (he gives short shrift to the Bd3/0-0 plan in the Orthodox and he doesn't really look at the h4/h5 plans in the Panno).  If you have Ward's book and like the lines he offers, then you don't need this book.  But if you want coverage of some of the missing lines, then this may be worth getting.

I haven't gotten deep enough into the book to comment on the analysis yet, but many of the games are ones I've seen before and they seem to be presented well enough.  Again, it's not the presentation that is disappointing, it's the lack of anything new.  I will comment more on specific lines as I get deeper into the book or if anyone has a line they'd like to know about.  For now, though, the customary list of contents:

Bibliography --  p4
Introduction -- p5
6.Be3 e5 7.d5 -- p7
6.Be3 e5 7.Nge2 -- p24
6.Be3 Nc6 -- p38
6.Be3 c6 and 6..Nbd7 -- p73
6.Be3 c5 -- p107
6.Be3 c5 7.d5 -- p.123
6.Bg5 and 6.Nge2 Benoni positions -- p.136
6.Nge2 and 6.Bg5 other positions -- p.160
Index -- p.174

Silman has already commented on the bibliography.  It lists five books, including Gallagher's, but not Ward's.  And that's it.  It doesn't list any magazines, databases, informants, etc., but its clear enough that the authors have consulted at least some of these sources.  The intro is perfunctory.  

Each chapter presents a number of complete games in the usual Everyman format, with a brief summary/tree-like index at the end of each chapter.  In total, there are 50 complete games, one of which is an online blitz game (between GMs) and two of which are corr. games.  Rest are mostly high-level OTB games.      

Anyway, these are first impressions only.  If anyone is interested, I will report back later on some of the analysis and specific lines.

-- LeeRoth
  
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Dragan Glas
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Re: Everyman on the Saėmisch variation of the KI
Reply #40 - 02/18/08 at 12:23:03
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Greetings,

I'm very glad I bought Ward's book - and only for a fiver!

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas
  
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Re: Everyman on the Saėmisch variation of the KI
Reply #39 - 02/18/08 at 12:06:12
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Ender wrote on 02/15/08 at 09:51:23:
DoubledPawns wrote on 02/15/08 at 04:58:43:
You know, if Ender is correct (and I'm sure he is), then we would learn more from this thread than we would from the book Wink.


Wink
I have this book, and found it not very good. I think MUCH better choice is 
'Controvelsial Samisch' by C. Ward.

Me too!  Cheesy
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Re: Everyman on the Saėmisch variation of the KI
Reply #38 - 02/15/08 at 09:51:23
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DoubledPawns wrote on 02/15/08 at 04:58:43:
You know, if Ender is correct (and I'm sure he is), then we would learn more from this thread than we would from the book Wink.


Wink
I have this book, and found it not very good. I think MUCH better choice is 
'Controvelsial Samisch' by C. Ward.
  

2200. Amateur!
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