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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) The 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 Line (Read 12557 times)
belaji
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Re: The 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 Line
Reply #15 - 04/17/09 at 05:42:14
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I was under the impression that the optimal structure for Black is similar to this:

Ovsiannikov - Shilin, 2007
1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Bb4 3. g3 Bxc3 4. bxc3 d6 5. Bg2 Nc6 6. Nf3 f5 7. O-O Nf6 8. d3 O-O 9. Rb1 Qe8 10. c5 d5 11. Qb3 Kh8 12. Bg5 Rb8 13.Bxf6 Rxf6 14. Nd2 e4 15. c4 Nd4 16. Qd1 exd3 17. exd3 Ne2+ 18. Kh1 Nc3 19. Qf3 Nxb1 20. Rxb1 dxc4 21. Nxc4 f4 22. gxf4 Qf8 23. Re1 Be6 24.Ne5 Qxc5 25. Qh5 Bd5 26. Kg1 Qd4 27. Bxd5 Qxd5 28. f5 Rbf8 29.Re4 Kg8 0-1
  
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MNb
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Re: The 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 Line
Reply #14 - 03/14/09 at 21:21:39
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In such a structure, is not nice for Black to have his knights on e7 and f6 ?
  
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Re: The 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 Line
Reply #13 - 03/14/09 at 21:01:27
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After 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 3.g3 I would consider 3...Bc3 4.bc3 Ne7!? 5.Bg2 d6 followed by simply ...0-0, ...f5, ...Nbc6 and a kingside attack.

Alternatively, 3...Bc3 4.bc3 d6 5.Bg2 Nd7 6.d3 f5 might be a good idea for Black as well. If White tries Rb1, Black simply replies with c6, blocking the g2-bishop's diagonal.
  
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Re: The 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 Line
Reply #12 - 03/14/09 at 13:33:09
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 12/12/07 at 10:55:44:
I have very good results with 2 Nc3 Bb4 3 g3, allowing Black to give me the bishop pair, an extra central pawn and the open b-file! Wink

Due to the topical "Flank update" from J. Rowson I am bringing up this old thread again.

I really like to play Bb4 against Nc3 and I always hope White goes Nd5 giving me the option to mix things up very early. The "ignore option" (to play 3.g3) is more annoying in my view.

Perhaps some can recommend a good line for Black and/or the double powerful GM force of Kosten/Rowson will make some dispute either here or in a coming flank update.

Curios.... Smiley
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: The 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 Line
Reply #11 - 12/13/07 at 16:43:31
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Matemax wrote on 12/13/07 at 13:55:05:
As we are still missing our "flank god" (C. H.)
I actually got an email from him a few days ago promising a plethora of updates! Undecided
  
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Matemax
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Re: The 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 Line
Reply #10 - 12/13/07 at 13:55:05
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I just had a look at MegaBase

Just a proposal:
As we are still missing our "flank god" (C. H.) and we cannot afford David Beckham (another "flank god") I suggest T. K. to do the missing October 2007 update about 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 and share some of his thoughts with us Shocked
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: The 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 Line
Reply #9 - 12/13/07 at 12:20:52
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I agree that 6 c5 looks premature, I just had a look at MegaBase and it seems that White had previously played 9 different moves in this position ... and 6 c5 makes ten!! Grin
  
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Re: The 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 Line
Reply #8 - 12/13/07 at 11:53:08
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For sure, but it looks a bit premature there.  I'm not sure your reaction (an immediate ...d5) was the right one as it rather lets White get his way.
  
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Matemax
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Re: The 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 Line
Reply #7 - 12/13/07 at 07:29:58
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6.c5?! creates a strange impression

I talked to a GM after the game and he said if Black ommits d6 (I played Nf6) c5 would be a principal try to get rid of the double pawn Huh
  
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alumbrado
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Re: The 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 Line
Reply #6 - 12/12/07 at 19:44:52
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Matemax wrote on 12/12/07 at 15:24:59:
Well - surely T. K. would have played better with white.


I would hope that a lot of folk here would have been able to improve on White's play!  Although you still played well to win so cleanly.

6.c5?! creates a strange impression, for one thing - it looks a lot like just a wasted tempo, when the priortiy is to get the pieces into play.  I'm not a huge fan of 8.Nh3 either, although it would have made a lot more sense if White had followed it up with f2-f4 at some point (11.f4!?).  The plan with Ba3 and d3-d4 is misguided in my view, as your very precise play demonstrates.
  
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Re: The 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 Line
Reply #5 - 12/12/07 at 15:24:59
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I have very good results with 2 Nc3 Bb4 3 g3, allowing Black to give me the bishop pair, an extra central pawn and the open b-file!

This is the chance to present one of my own games  Smiley I played with black October 2007 (40 moves 1.40h + 30 sec + 30 minutes for the rest)

1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 3.g3 Bxc3 4.bxc3 Nf6 5.Bg2 O-O 6.c5 d5 7.cxd6 Qxd6 8.Nh3 c5 9.O-O Nc6 10.d3 h6 11.Ba3 Re8 12.e3 Bg4 13.f3 Be6 14.d4 exd4 15.exd4 Qd7 16.Nf4 cxd4 17.Nxe6 Qxe6 18.Qd2 Qe3+ 19.Qxe3 Rxe3 20.Rac1 Nd5 21.Rfe1 Rae8 22.Rxe3 Rxe3 23.c4 Nc3 24.Kf1 Nxa2

0-1

Well - surley T. K. would have played better with white. But perhaps someone wants to "dissect" it? - but beware, there are some hidden tactics for those who only take the "fritzy"-way Smiley
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: The 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 Line
Reply #4 - 12/12/07 at 14:13:37
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Quote:
or 2. g3 Nf6 with c6-d5 to follow (the famous Keres system, many games currently). Since 2. g3 is recommended in the ever-popular Dynamic English, you can expect to meet it a lot.  

And if you do play the Keres you have to be happy with the IQP positions that often arise, which aren't to everyone's taste.
I have very good results with 2 Nc3 Bb4 3 g3, allowing Black to give me the bishop pair, an extra central pawn and the open b-file! Wink
  
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alumbrado
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Re: The 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 Line
Reply #3 - 12/12/07 at 14:10:19
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I don't think too many seasoned English players will go 2.e3 there, although I suppose some might.

The answer to that is fairly straightforward, though: the system with ...d6 and ...f5 is very strong there, with a sort of 'Reversed Clamp' - easy equality for Black and plenty of scope for future active operations on the kingside and in the centre.
  
If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
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Re: The 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 Line
Reply #2 - 12/12/07 at 10:55:44
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If White doesn't comply with 2. Nc3, you can still drag him out of comfort with 2. Nf3 e4 (and then Nc6) or 2. g3 Nf6 with c6-d5 to follow (the famous Keres system, many games currently). Since 2. g3 is recommended in the ever-popular Dynamic English, you can expect to meet it a lot. But a seasoned English player may reply 1. c4 e5 2. e3 !? after which it's not easy to make trouble.
  
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Re: The 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 Line
Reply #1 - 12/12/07 at 10:26:04
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I love this line with black - after 3.Nd5 (supposed to be critical) black has a lot of moves to "create his own pizza" (title of a New in Chess Yearbook Article some years ago): 3...Be7, 3...Ba5, 3...Bc5, 3...Bd6, 3...a5, 3...Na6

Well after different 2. moves from white (eg 2.g3) you need a "back-up system" - you can choose from various "reversed sicilians" (Closed reversed, Dragon reversed,....) or even blast out with 2...f5 (of course not after 2.Nf3).
  
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