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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Caro-Kann for the rest of my chess-career? (Read 27229 times)
winawer77
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Re: Caro-Kann for the rest of my chess-career?
Reply #23 - 10/18/08 at 12:46:38
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I must admit I never understood the appeal of the 4...Nd7 line. If you want to play this way then why not just go for a Rubinstein French? At least here you can play ...c5 in one go!

Just get the bishop out 4...Bf5!  Smiley
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Caro-Kann for the rest of my chess-career?
Reply #22 - 10/18/08 at 07:56:51
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I've just been going through Speelman's 1992 book on the Caro-Kann and read a recent blurb by Speelman about 4...Nd7.  He suggests that while it may eventually be busted as Kasparov claimed it would be, it is still suitable for counter-punching players.

This is similar to what Botvinnik and Karpov have said, that the Caro-Kann is ok if you're willing to suffer for 20 moves to get a playable endgame.

I'm not terribly interested in transpositions between the Caro-Kann and the Scandinavian, but I have studied similarities between the Caro-Kann and the Semi-Tarrasch!  There's a famous game, Smyslov-Karpov, that could have arisen from either opening that my hero won.

Having said all this, the Caro-Kann is only a reasonable weapon against opponents who are willing to take up the challenge and try to beat it.  White can gain a comfortable, but meaningless advantage almost without effort.  Or White can try for more, and thereby give Black plenty of counter-attacking chances.  

I choose the Caro-Kann when either I don't mind a draw or I know my opponent will choose one of the lines that is dangerous to both sides.
  
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motörhead
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Re: Caro-Kann for the rest of my chess-career?
Reply #21 - 10/17/08 at 20:32:56
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Dragan Glas wrote on 02/15/08 at 22:18:32:
Jansa, in Dynamics of Chess Strategy, draws parallels between the pawn structures of the Caro-Kann and the Scandinavian as "impaired" - perhaps that's the way in which they are similar!?



Hi,
I also reflected on the question that opened this thread. The main problem with the C-K is, as far as I can see, that White has some unpleasant possibilities at hand, namely the Panov and the Advance, that desturb the wellknown standard set ups in the C-K basing on the pawnstructure d4 vs. c6. A lot of theory is required to handle the named deviations.
Though perhaps there is a nice side entry to C-K structures via the Skandinavian move order: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 (absolutely normal play up to now, Black has neither to face Advance - seldomly played in the Scandinavian - nor the Panov) and now the quite amusing move 3...Qe5+!??! may be an interessting possibility with the idea of 4.Be2 c6 5.Nf3 Qc7. I once saw some remarks of Andrew Martin's on this "patzer's check". Don't now if there is some theory on it. But I feel that it may perhaps be quite playable. Black gets the structure he likes i.e. the C-K with c6 against d4 and all the normal possibilities. So you can study lots of ideas in C-K games and try to get them work in this special side line.
Does anybody know more about it?

Besides: Isn't there an opening book by the notorious Andy Soltis on this theme entiteled in a very similar way, something like 'opening system for the rest of your life' or so dealing with the C-K and the Slav? Or am I wrong with that?
  

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Dragan Glas
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Re: Caro-Kann for the rest of my chess-career?
Reply #20 - 02/15/08 at 23:37:47
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Greetings,

kylemeister wrote on 02/15/08 at 23:29:00:
I believe Jansa was referring to Black's structure being impaired after a ...gxf6 recapture.


You are correct, kylemeister  Embarrassed - I seem to have left out that important point in my previous point.

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Caro-Kann for the rest of my chess-career?
Reply #19 - 02/15/08 at 23:29:00
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I believe Jansa was referring to Black's structure being impaired after a ...gxf6 recapture.
  
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Dragan Glas
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Re: Caro-Kann for the rest of my chess-career?
Reply #18 - 02/15/08 at 22:18:32
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Greetings,

Jansa, in Dynamics of Chess Strategy, draws parallels between the pawn structures of the Caro-Kann and the Scandinavian as "impaired" - perhaps that's the way in which they are similar!?

As regards a opening to suit wolfsblut criteria ...

Certainly the Caro-Kann is a very solid opening and would suit someone who is a patient defender and willing to wait until the endgame before coming out of their shell and going for the win - and, yes, it doesn't offer any real dynamic opportunities during the middle-game - at least, not without "going against the grain' (see some of Houska's suggestions to liven up the Caro-Kann!).

In my view, this opening shares certain similarities with the French - the main difference being that the latter offers Black the opportunity to go for the win in the middle-game, having repulsed White's attack(s), instead of having to wait until the endgame.

However, along with the Caro-Kann, perhaps you'd be interested in the Petroff!?

Again, a solid - I mean "sound" - defence against White's 1. e4, which offers the full range of possibilities of play for Black, from quiet, "drawish" lines to dynamic, tactical lines - if White wants a fight.

It is this last point which, I think, indicates that this might also suit your "style", in that you're prepared to "sit back and let White attack" - in the Petroff this equates to "let White decide what he wants to do - draw or fight".

Just a thought!

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas
  
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realpolitik
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Re: Caro-Kann for the rest of my chess-career?
Reply #17 - 02/15/08 at 19:58:26
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going back to the OP i find it hard to believe that someone with the handle wulfsblut is seriously contemplating playing the caro kann for the duration of the rest of their chess career!?! wouldn't the sicilian or 1..e5 and playing aggressively be more bloodthirsty
  
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Re: Caro-Kann for the rest of my chess-career?
Reply #16 - 01/26/08 at 22:14:29
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As someone who spent a lot of time playing the Caro, I never understood the appeal of the Scandinavian.  I'm not sure why people equate the two (okay, I do understand, but I really don't think the comparison is valid).  The Caro-Kann is ultra solid, and the Scandinavian is ... well ... not.
  

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Re: Caro-Kann for the rest of my chess-career?
Reply #15 - 01/24/08 at 17:59:21
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chk wrote on 01/11/08 at 18:33:28:
Why exactly do you think the main line Scandi does not complement well the c-k?
- it is 'not quite sound'/risky/second-rated?
or
- the sound variations do not lead to dynamic play (i.e. have nothing to offer in comparison to the c-k)?
or sth else?


I see that my post was easy to misunderstand.  What I meant was not that the Scandinavian isn't a good complement to the Caro, just that I would as soon take sodium cyanide as play either of them.  I exaggerate, of course; the Caro is a worthy system; but I'm not sure how dynamic it is.
  

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Re: Caro-Kann for the rest of my chess-career?
Reply #14 - 01/23/08 at 20:03:02
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chk wrote on 01/23/08 at 09:54:59:
[quote author=MagicTrick link=1199875092/0#10 date=1200765406]Although I'm not Markovich, I'll give you my answer: Caro-Kann can be complemented with Scandi either after 3.ed Q:d5 or 3.Nc3 de 4.N:e4 Qd5 . Nowadays 3.e5 is considered white's most promising answer, so playing both of the variations above instead the normal 3...cd, 4...Bf5, 4...Nd7 or 4...Nf6 only means more theory than in more line Scandi, but doesn't avoid white's most dangerous continuation. In Scandi it only avoid Bc4 with d3 and Nf3 with c4 systems, and these are NOT the most promising tries to reach an advantage. And main line Caro-Kann is much sounder than Scandi anyway.
A subjective answer by Paul Wink


Quote:
Though I have difficulty in understanding which lines exactly you are referring to, I get the impression that you also believe (i.e. like Markovich) there are no great practical merits in combining the main line Scandi with the C-K. Well, you know best as I have no great experience or knowledge regarding both of these systems (as I said I only face them as White  Wink).


Well, I rarely if ever play either Scandi or Caro-Kann, since at my level it doesn't really matter much if you're Black or White, so there's no point in playing for a draw as Black, and Caro is more suited for playing for a draw. I only play Scandi in bullett on the Internet, since premoving ...d5 is sometimes a nice thing to do. However, I certainly think that Scandi Main Line is much easier to play for an advantage for both sides, but White has much more chances than Black, since he wins so much tempis with Black's queen moving 3 or 4 times. However, Caro-Kann with 4...Nd7 or 4...Bf5 is much sounder than Scandi. I like positions after 4...Nf6 and 5...gf, but nowadays the Advance Variation is much more popular than 3.Nc3, so complementing the Caro with Scandi only means more theory, since you can't avoid White's 3.e5.
The lines which I'm referring to are:
1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 de 4. N:e4 and now 4...Nd7, 4...Bf5 or 4...Nf6 are all Caro Main Line and 4...Qd5 transposes to 1.e4 d5 2.ed Q:d5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.d4 after 5.Nc3 Qa5. The other possibillity to complement Caro with Scandi is by avoiding Panov and Exchange by 3...Q:d5 after 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.ed . This again transposes.
  
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chk
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Re: Caro-Kann for the rest of my chess-career?
Reply #13 - 01/23/08 at 09:54:59
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MagicTrick wrote on 01/19/08 at 17:56:46:
Although I'm not Markovich, I'll give you my answer: Caro-Kann can be complemented with Scandi either after 3.ed Q:d5 or 3.Nc3 de 4.N:e4 Qd5 . Nowadays 3.e5 is considered white's most promising answer, so playing both of the variations above instead the normal 3...cd, 4...Bf5, 4...Nd7 or 4...Nf6 only means more theory than in more line Scandi, but doesn't avoid white's most dangerous continuation. In Scandi it only avoid Bc4 with d3 and Nf3 with c4 systems, and these are NOT the most promising tries to reach an advantage. And main line Caro-Kann is much sounder than Scandi anyway.
A subjective answer by Paul Wink


Though I have difficulty in understanding which lines exactly you are referring to, I get the impression that you also believe (i.e. like Markovich) there are no great practical merits in combining the main line Scandi with the C-K. Well, you know best as I have no great experience or knowledge regarding both of these systems (as I said I only face them as White  Wink).

chk wrote on 01/11/08 at 14:05:22:
... Or when playing against the c-k advance alternate between (1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. e5) 3. ... Bf5 and 3. ... c5 (the latter resembling the French; a tempo down that is, but is playable), ...


For the sake of clarity I must add here that this line resembles the French with the following differences: a) Black is a tempo down and b) Black has retained the option to post Bc8 outside the pawn chain.

There, now I feel much better Grin
  

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Re: Caro-Kann for the rest of my chess-career?
Reply #12 - 01/20/08 at 17:51:58
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Hi,
many thanks to you all for your answers...!
So I go......!

greetings

wolfsblut
  
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Re: Caro-Kann for the rest of my chess-career?
Reply #11 - 01/20/08 at 04:57:09
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I'll preface my comments by admitting that I'm not as strong as many of the players that have given you advice.  Looking at your original post, the Caro is the opening that best fits your needs.  It's extremely solid, relatively untheoretical, and leads to decent endgames for Black.  1...e5 has a lot of sharp sideliness, the Sicilian is extremely sharp and theoretical, the French is pretty solid but it has more theory than the Caro.  If the Caro is good enough for Karpov, I don't think any of us should feel uncomfortable adopting it.

Just my two cents,
Scott
  

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Re: Caro-Kann for the rest of my chess-career?
Reply #10 - 01/19/08 at 17:56:46
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Although I'm not Markovich, I'll give you my answer: Caro-Kann can be complemented with Scandi either after 3.ed Q:d5 or 3.Nc3 de 4.N:e4 Qd5 . Nowadays 3.e5 is considered white's most promising answer, so playing both of the variations above instead the normal 3...cd, 4...Bf5, 4...Nd7 or 4...Nf6 only means more theory than in more line Scandi, but doesn't avoid white's most dangerous continuation. In Scandi it only avoid Bc4 with d3 and Nf3 with c4 systems, and these are NOT the most promising tries to reach an advantage. And main line Caro-Kann is much sounder than Scandi anyway.
A subjective answer by Paul Wink
  
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chk
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Re: Caro-Kann for the rest of my chess-career?
Reply #9 - 01/11/08 at 18:33:28
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Why exactly do you think the main line Scandi does not complement well the c-k?
- it is 'not quite sound'/risky/second-rated?
or
- the sound variations do not lead to dynamic play (i.e. have nothing to offer in comparison to the c-k)?
or sth else?
  

"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
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