Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source (Read 25324 times)
lnn2
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #26 - 09/01/08 at 05:57:56
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I note that Emms' new re-issue of Survival Guide to Rook Endings  has been checked with the tablebases. Are there any significant changes or serious analytical errors discovered compared to the original edition?
  
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #25 - 05/07/08 at 14:39:48
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Beetlejuice wrote on 04/14/08 at 08:37:21:
I agree that Emms's Survival Guide to Rook Endings is great - and it a shame that it wasn't followed by other Survival Guide to ... Endings books.

However, it seems that people expect a "new edition" of the book. As I read the Gambit website, it looks like a "re-issue", which I understand as a reprint with no content changes - and I'm sure that the website would have stated it very clearly if this was an improved version.


As I wrote in another thread, the analysis in the book has been updated with reference to 6-man tablebases (like R+PP vs R, R+P vs R+P) which were not available to Emms when he first wrote it. All or almost all the explanatory text is the same. Source: Gambit editor Graham Burgess, on John Watson's "Chess Talk" radio show.
  

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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #24 - 05/07/08 at 07:37:56
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I know this topic is dated but James Howell's Fundamental Chess Endings definitely deserves a plug. Not only because he shows you the right answer but why the wrong answers are wrong. I know i hate nothing more than seeing my opponent make a mistake but not knowing how to take advantage of it.
  
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #23 - 04/17/08 at 07:15:14
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I have the kortchnoi book. To read the entire book would be very time consuming, but kortchnoi made a introduction where he explains the basics. Its just few pages and helpfull.
  
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #22 - 04/14/08 at 08:37:21
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I agree that Emms's Survival Guide to Rook Endings is great - and it a shame that it wasn't followed by other Survival Guide to ... Endings books.

However, it seems that people expect a "new edition" of the book. As I read the Gambit website, it looks like a "re-issue", which I understand as a reprint with no content changes - and I'm sure that the website would have stated it very clearly if this was an improved version.
  
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #21 - 04/14/08 at 08:04:12
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You can check also Muller's DVDs and also Nunn's Secrets of Rook Endgames.

Regards
Milen
  
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #20 - 02/27/08 at 21:57:55
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The best books are probably Smyslov's and Levenfish (of course newer editions could improve several things), Emms book was ok but perhaps not 

1) deep enough to really be of help in some endings
2) Too practical (just analysing a few endings without a system) to be able to retain useful material

Korchnoi book is tremendous, but probably just for 2450+, and even most would find it too difficult.

Dvoretsky is incredibly pedantic in most of his books, but the endings one is fantastic. One has to endure his tragicomedies sections, but the actual explanations are second to none.

I would get a primer ( I even went through Nunn's book, but I was very determined then Smiley ) like Smyslov's and then use Dvoretsky.

Muller and Lamprecht on pawn endings is fantastic but the much acclaimed F¡undamentals is considerably worse. A funny thing, actually, cause their pawn endings is simply astounding. Huh
  

Fernando Semprun
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #19 - 02/27/08 at 17:52:08
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I find the first edition of Emms's book very instructive, so am also looking forward to the second edition.

Has anyone tried Korchnoi's book of his own rook endgames? Kasparov's recent Great Predecessors book has pages and pages of analysis building on and correcting some of Korchnoi's work in that book: all looks tremendous stuff, but somehow I don't feel strong enough to wade through it, as I still find even relatively "simple" rook endings complicated enough...
  
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #18 - 02/13/08 at 04:36:34
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Waiting for the 2nd edition of Emm's book
  
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #17 - 02/11/08 at 19:53:33
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Greetings,

Yes - the problem is finding the "right book for you!"

The one which "clicks" for you - that explains things in a way that makes sense to you.

Certainly there are plenty of books out there on the endgame - and rook endgames in particular - but not all of them will suit the reader.

If they did, there'd only be one book on any given subject!

The reader's existing level of knowledge and understanding is a factor - along with the author's method of presentation of the subject matter (not everyone likes Yermolinsky's delivery in The Road To Chess Improvement, despite it being an award-winning book).

As I posted earlier, if it were me starting from scratch, having first gotten the general endgame basics under my belt (Essential Chess Endings, Howell), if I wished to learn more about rook endings, I'd then get Practical Rook Endings by Mednis and then move onto Emms' The Survival Guide to Rook Endings.

One could then go onto more advanced books as and when you feel the need to know or understand more.

All of these books would require study rather than just reading through them once.

After all, a library of the "best books on..." whatever would be useless if the owner doesn't read - let alone, study! - them.

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas
  
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #16 - 02/11/08 at 14:44:46
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IMJohnCox wrote on 02/11/08 at 14:08:21:

I think by the way that the brutal types, who say that most of these books are fine but what counts is not the book but how hard you work trying to improve, are probably right.


No!  It's all in the book I choose.


This way when I fail, I know it's not my fault.

I know there is a secret book out there that people have been keeping from me and THAT is why I am not improving as much as others, as I RIGHTFULLY should.

Wink


I got by on the work By Ludek Pachman (Endings for the Practical Player), supplemented by the very exciting read:  Encylopedia of Rook Endings (I can't wait for the film version starring Leo McKern & Angelo Muscat.)

Be seeing you.
  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #15 - 02/11/08 at 14:08:21
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I listened to ICC's Chesstalk with John Watson and Hanon Russell the other day. According to HR Kasparov told him the Minev book was great and that he (HR) should publish it, and that's why he is publishing it.

Not an unbiased recommendation, of course, but interesting. (I haven't seen this book btw).

I think by the way that the brutal types, who say that most of these books are fine but what counts is not the book but how hard you work trying to improve, are probably right.
  
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #14 - 02/10/08 at 19:11:06
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Quote:
In order to jump levels, you have to work really hard.  (Think quantum energy.)

Somewhere I read: "You know your becoming better, when you have the feeling your opponents are playing worse". To "jump up" a level you need to leave your mistakes behind. If you feel you can play at the same level as stronger players until the endgame and then lose, then learning endgames is certainly the way to start. If you improve endgame play you will mostly win more games against similar and lower rated opponents, but to win against the stronger ones you have also to improve opening and middlegame. Some weeks ago I saw a nice example of a stronger player winning a level endgame where both sides had 3 pawns, knight and rook - Black was about 2.350 and white 2.150 - it took the stronger player about 20 moves to win out of a level situation. The 2.150 played opening and middlegame as well as the 2.350 - but in the end one saw the difference. 

After knowing some basic principles (eg Rook+pawn against rook) you should mainly concentrate on strategic and tactic features of endgames, not so much of learning more and more theoretical situations. They wont appear on board! If you play activly in rook endgames you can even be a pawn down and have the better chances - passive defence is only good if youre sure of a fortress, otherwise zugzwang will tell or you will finally make a blunder.

I have some endgame books: Averbakh, Smyslov, Panchenko - I learned the basics with Smyslov (and sometimes take the book on a rail journey with me, just to repeat something) but most of my own improvement came with replaying topical games - if the endgame starts I put the magazine (or what ever) aside and think for myself. Sometimes I find the winning or drawing plan but sometimes I am really amazed what those super-GMs can do. I try compare the way the endgame goes to my own thoughts: What would I have played? Did I see a way to win / save the game? Why did I not see the moves of the super-GM? and so on....

I started this method after reading J. Rowsons books - a central statement of him is, that you have to work on the board for yourself and not only "consume" - I try to improve my thinking!

Another thing which really helped me and is easier to start with endgame positions is to replay positions without a board (obviously the special "Gold member section" with the "blindfold-instruction" on chesspublishing is to blame for that). If there are more diagrams I try to get from one to the next and in endgame positions I try to calculate until the end (which needs a lot of concentration sometimes - but thats what you need at the board also). 

What happened is, that now I am able to think about chess positions whenever I have time (eg. waiting for the bus) - Hopefully no one can read my mind at the busstation - they would certainly think I am crazy  Grin
  
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #13 - 02/10/08 at 18:35:46
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Really, the book doesn't make the player.


In order to jump levels, you have to work really hard.  (Think quantum energy.)  Whatever source you use should be a means to the end.  The amount of energy you spend on the endgame will pay off, but you have to be willing to work really hard.   

I just played a few blitz games against 2200+ opponents on ICC.  I was behind a pawn in most of them, and certainly had no advantage in any of them.  Still, in the rook and pawn endings, (one of which had me down three(!) pawns), I had a massive plus score.  If these players who are so good tactically can't get even the basics of R+P endings down, just think what you could do!

I'm sure I'm not the only player to have seen opponents really flub the R+P endings, but this weekend must have been some sort of record for me.  I didn't make an exact count, but I probably won 7/10 inferior positions without losing one.

Work on Rook endings.  Work hard on rook endings, and use whichever books you can lay your hands on.  Most players don't have the first clue about rook endings, so any competent text will do to get you going.   

(I will still make a plug for the Levenfisch-Smyslov book.  This time, I will point out that the titled players also used it to make the leap.  The material is all there, ready for the willing player to absorb it.)
  
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #12 - 02/10/08 at 02:34:56
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Okay guys......I am a 1980 rated player, aspiring to 2100. Based on this conversation, I understood Mednis is good enough till I make it to 2100+. Am I correct ? Or I need to go through Dvoretsky also ?
  
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #11 - 02/09/08 at 21:31:59
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Levenfish is the all time classic, but it can be rather dry.  Sort of like working on five-finger scales when you are learning to play piano.  Mednis is more to the point and really all you need.  Read that, then move on to something more interesting.

You need to learn the basic theory and familarize yourself with some of the tactics, but, imho, that's about it.  I suspect that up to, say, 2400, nobody really knows all that much more.  As a GM once told me, you'll be fine as long as you keep calculating and stay aggressive.
  
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #10 - 02/09/08 at 20:15:15
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I too like Levenfish (aka Lowenfisch) and Smyslov, if you do what they say and thoroughly master the material in the first chapter before looking further, you'll make real progress with this.
imho, Karsten Mueller's DVD on rook endings ( 2nd DVD is on R+p) is very useful, he does rather rush through the transitions from intermediate to difficult positions but you can go over it repeatedly. I haven't spent the time to figure out how to copy the positions onto a database butI intend to do that so as to play through it at my own speed.
  
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #9 - 02/09/08 at 12:09:27
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Minev's book is supposed to be very good. Plus it is rather a cheap book.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #8 - 02/09/08 at 05:36:48
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This probably won't come as a surprise to anyone, but my favorite R+P endgame book is

Rook Endings


by Smyslov and Levenfish.

This book has helped me to learn what Korchnoi considers the basics of Rook and Pawn endings more than any other single book.

For advanced players, Dvoretsky's "Endgame Manual" is fantastic.  For even more advanced players, Korchnoi's book on Rook endings is priceless.  I doubt there's a more challenging and useful book on endgames for grandmasters than Korchnoi's book on practical rook endings.  I'd love to hear what the titled players think of Korchnoi's book though.


  
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #7 - 02/08/08 at 14:24:49
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I believe that you could do worse than to look at the rook ending chapter in Israel Gelfer's positional chess handbook. 

Not mentioned so far are Korchnoi's book on rook endings and various endings analysed by Speelman in Endgame preparation. Muller and Dvoretsky's universal endgame books provide good coverage.
  
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #6 - 02/08/08 at 13:12:43
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Greetings,

Personally - as a NM (Non-Master!)  Grin - I'd suggest Emms' new edition of his book - see my previous post.

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas
  
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #5 - 02/08/08 at 13:06:08
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Thanks everybody....it seems Mednis is the one to start with. In fact, this was the same suggested by a very strong NM to me (whom I respect a lot and regard very highly as coach). Based on his suggestion, I already got the book.

Can you also mention what will be follow up book ?
  
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #4 - 02/08/08 at 13:03:59
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Greetings,

Practical Rook Endings by Mednis is a short (72 pages!) but very clear book on rook endgames.

There will be a new edition of The Survival Guide to Rook Endings by Emms (ISBN: 1904600948) coming out at the start of March 2008.

It's more comprehensive than Mednis' - but I'd probably prefer to have both!

Howell's Essential Chess Endings also covers these amongst others.

[I already have Smyslov's and Levenfish's excellent tome - Rook Endings - but this is not suitable for someone trying to get a introduction/overview of the essentials of these endings.]

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas
  
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #3 - 02/08/08 at 11:12:58
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saubhikr wrote on 02/08/08 at 04:37:49:
I am working on Rook ending (after losing few dozen won games). There are many books on this subject but unfortunately I do not much time to go through all. 

Can anyboody tell me what is the best source for Rook pawn ending - Minev, Mednis, Muller, Averback, Dvoretski or something else ?


IMHO successful study of the endgame involves two elements: 
a) study of a small (but growing as you get stronger) number of "precise positions" of each type of endgame (e.g. R+P, N+P etc.)
and
b) familiarity with (and increasing "feel" for)  the basic principles and methods of conducting endings which are not yet reducible to one of the "precise positions".

For R+P endings, I always suggest that students start with the little Mednis book, which covers the first few important precise R+P positions AND the main principles and methods, in a very user-friendly way. (Also it's is quite cheap!)

BTW, in his fine book "Chess Coaching", John Littlewood made a very useful small selection of "precise positions" in each type of ending that he considered  essential knowledge.
  
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #2 - 02/08/08 at 10:47:15
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The one I like best is Levenfish and Smyslov in the old Batsford series (also in Russian, of course).

John Emms Survival guide is good also.

Korchnoi's book is excellent, but not an introduction. And of course Dvoretsky and Muller both cover the ground competently, as do others no doubt.

I am sure there are others, but these are the ones I know.
« Last Edit: 02/08/08 at 13:33:46 by IMJohnCox »  
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Re: What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
Reply #1 - 02/08/08 at 05:16:52
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I don't have much of a view on this, but I might mention that an acquaintance of mine (a US master) is effusive in his praise of Mednis's little rook endings book (saying something like, it taught him more about endings in general than any other book).
  
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What is the best Rook pawn ending book/source
02/08/08 at 04:37:49
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I am working on Rook ending (after losing few dozen won games). There are many books on this subject but unfortunately I do not much time to go through all. 

Can anyboody tell me what is the best source for Rook pawn ending - Minev, Mednis, Muller, Averback, Dvoretski or something else ?
  
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