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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Avoiding Grunfeld!? (Read 25023 times)
Markovich
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Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!?
Reply #17 - 02/28/08 at 16:33:08
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Ametanoitos wrote on 02/27/08 at 00:06:03:
This idea was played in Kantsler-Smirin Israel 2004 annotaded by Kanstler in informant

6...c5!? 7.Ne5 (After 7.Qxc5 Nc6 Khalifman says: "Black has excellent compensation for the pawn due to his huge lead in development") 7..e6 8.Nxd7 Qxd7 9.g3 Nc6 10.Bg2 Be7! 11.0-0 0-0 equal according to Kantsler).

I also know another idea coming from Adorjan and used by Rowson 5.e4 e5 6.d4 exd4 with a KID in which black saves a tempo on c6-d5! Also after 5.Nxe5 Nxe4.


Thanks for that reference.  Who am I to dispute with el-Khalif, but I still remain somewhat skeptical of Black's comp there.  Black's game is so obviously analogous to a Smith-Morra, all the moreso if White doesn't hurry with e4 or d4.
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!?
Reply #16 - 02/28/08 at 10:00:12
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8.Bg5 f6 9.Bh4/e3/f4 0-0 is good for black according to Motwani. Black is more coordinated and can push the f pawn (according to MrMo!)
  
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Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!?
Reply #15 - 02/27/08 at 00:30:19
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Ametanoitos wrote on 02/27/08 at 00:06:03:


I also know another idea coming from Adorjan and used by Rowson 5.e4 e5 6.d4 exd4 with a KID in which black saves a tempo on c6-d5! Also after 5.Nxe5 Nxe4.


Assuming you mean 4. e4 e5 5. Nxe5 Nxe4, I would have thought that's good for White after 6. Nxe4 Bxe5 7. d4 triangle* Bg5.  I recall the saving-a-tempo-on-...d5 idea being played way back by the American IM Kim Commons, starting from 1. Nf3 g6 2. c4 Bg7 3. e4 e5 etc.


*you know, Informant-speak
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!?
Reply #14 - 02/27/08 at 00:06:03
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This idea was played in Kantsler-Smirin Israel 2004 annotaded by Kanstler in informant

6...c5!? 7.Ne5 (After 7.Qxc5 Nc6 Khalifman says: "Black has excellent compensation for the pawn due to his huge lead in development") 7..e6 8.Nxd7 Qxd7 9.g3 Nc6 10.Bg2 Be7! 11.0-0 0-0 equal according to Kantsler).

I also know another idea coming from Adorjan and used by Rowson 5.e4 e5 6.d4 exd4 with a KID in which black saves a tempo on c6-d5! Also after 5.Nxe5 Nxe4.
  
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Markovich
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Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!?
Reply #13 - 02/24/08 at 22:21:13
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micawber wrote on 02/21/08 at 22:01:13:
This seems one of those typical variations where the sac doenst immediately generate an attack, but 'only' facilitates black's speedy development, while white has some problems with the safety of his queen,   
the control of central squares and a meaningful development of his bishops.
My guess is, though I havent seen any games yet, is that
black has nothing special on Qxc5 but will "quietly" continue with
7.Qxc5,Nc6 and 8....e5 as his next move. 

I would appreciate if someone posted a game in this line.
I noticed that several Grunfeld experts choose 6...a6 and play ...c5 a few moves later (P. Svidler has played like this quite often).


But "Smirin's idea" from where?  According to whom?

In any case, Black's eventual game looks a whole lot like White's side of a Smith-Morra, to me.  Decent enough for Black, perhaps, but his comp looks a little nebulous.
« Last Edit: 02/25/08 at 00:47:11 by Markovich »  
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micawber
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Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!?
Reply #12 - 02/21/08 at 22:01:13
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This seems one of those typical variations where the sac doenst immediately generate an attack, but 'only' facilitates black's speedy development, while white has some problems with the safety of his queen,   
the control of central squares and a meaningful development of his bishops.
My guess is, though I havent seen any games yet, is that
black has nothing special on Qxc5 but will "quietly" continue with
7.Qxc5,Nc6 and 8....e5 as his next move. 

I would appreciate if someone posted a game in this line.
I noticed that several Grunfeld experts choose 6...a6 and play ...c5 a few moves later (P. Svidler has played like this quite often).
  
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Markovich
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Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!?
Reply #11 - 02/21/08 at 16:45:36
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Ametanoitos wrote on 02/21/08 at 12:03:55:

After 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.Qa4+ (Khalifman's recomendation) 4...Bd7 5.Qb3 dxc4 6.Qxc4 c5! is excellent for black (Smirin's idea)


Well now, that's interesting. Got any references?

Also I'm trying to picture Black's comp after 7.Qxc5 and not quite succeeding (no board here).  What, 7...Na6?
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!?
Reply #10 - 02/21/08 at 12:03:55
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After 1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5! is equal according to my analysis (I'm a 1.c4 player myself!). 

After 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 (What about the 'old' 4..Bg7 5.e4 e5! What Khalifman says here?) 4.Qa4+ (Khalifman's recomendation) 4...Bd7 5.Qb3 dxc4 6.Qxc4 c5! is excellent for black (Smirin's idea)
  
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Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!?
Reply #9 - 02/13/08 at 07:57:16
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If 3.Nf3, you can consider 3...d6 4.Nc3 Bf5!?, which is a fully respectable defence which has been played by Vladimir Georgiev and even Topalov played it once. The only disadvantage is that 4.g3 essentially forces Black into a fianchetto KID.

After 3.Nf3 Bg7 4.g3, Black could consider 4...0-0 5.Bg2 c6 followed by ...d5, which is very solid but a little easier for White to play. The structures are a bit more like a Slav than a Grunfeld, although the combination of ...g6 and ...d5 do represent some sort of familiarity.

  
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Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!?
Reply #8 - 02/12/08 at 18:08:38
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Girkassa wrote on 02/12/08 at 09:48:14:
After 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nf3 Bg7 4.g3 it's a g3 King's Indian. Apart from that, I don't think there is anything else to worry about after 1.d4 as long as you're ready to meet the Tromp and the other "non-c4" openings. As alumbrado says, though, you also need something against 1.Nf3 and 1.c4.


Well I beg to differ, since Black still has ...d5.  It's a matter of taste and style, indeed, whether to meet the "Fianchetto King's Indian" with ...d6 or ...d5, even if one is a KID player.

Oops, I just saw that Willempie said the same thing.
  
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Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!?
Reply #7 - 02/12/08 at 13:05:40
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Girkassa wrote on 02/12/08 at 10:41:59:
Hmm, that's interesting. I don't play the position with either colour, so don't trust me!  Smiley I've just always thought 4.g3 was a possible anti-Grunfeld.

Well play is different from the typical Grunfelds, eg lines with c6 iso c5 are possible. But I believe some KID players specialise in this as they dislike the KID without e4 (so it doesnt get closed). Iirc Fischer and Uhlmann have some games in these lines.
  
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Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!?
Reply #6 - 02/12/08 at 12:35:54
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Grunfeld players can also expect d4 Nf6 c4 g6 f3!? on occasion and than be alert not to be move-ordered into playing the Samisch KID.

EDIT: See another thread started by Doubledpawns.
  
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Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!?
Reply #5 - 02/12/08 at 10:41:59
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Hmm, that's interesting. I don't play the position with either colour, so don't trust me!  Smiley I've just always thought 4.g3 was a possible anti-Grunfeld.
  
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Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!?
Reply #4 - 02/12/08 at 09:59:54
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Girkassa wrote on 02/12/08 at 09:48:14:
After 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nf3 Bg7 4.g3 it's a g3 King's Indian. Apart from that, I don't think there is anything else to worry about after 1.d4 as long as you're ready to meet the Tromp and the other "non-c4" openings. As alumbrado says, though, you also need something against 1.Nf3 and 1.c4.

4..d5 is a Grunfeld I think and one often used by KID players, who dislike the g3-lines of the KID.
  
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Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!?
Reply #3 - 02/12/08 at 09:48:14
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After 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nf3 Bg7 4.g3 it's a g3 King's Indian. Apart from that, I don't think there is anything else to worry about after 1.d4 as long as you're ready to meet the Tromp and the other "non-c4" openings. As alumbrado says, though, you also need something against 1.Nf3 and 1.c4.
  
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