ChessPub Forum - Avoiding Grunfeld!?

(UTC)

ChessPub Forum › Chess Publishing Openings › Daring Defences to 1. d4 › Grünfeld › Avoiding Grunfeld!?

(Moderators: CraigEvans, Hadron, proustiskeen)

‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›

Page Index Toggle

Pages: [1] 2 3

Topic Tools

Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies)

Avoiding Grunfeld!? (Read 25006 times)

MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10780 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!? Reply #32 - 04/12/10 at 16:05:28	Post Tools	Print Post
	That's Marshall Gambit nr. 6 then.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
	IP Logged

Patzerovich YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 9 Joined: 04/11/10	Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!? Reply #31 - 04/12/10 at 15:18:51	Post Tools	Print Post
	The name of this line is "Marshall Gambit" (http://www.newinchess.com/EO_Marshall_Gambit-so-73.html).


	IP Logged

Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!? Reply #30 - 03/31/10 at 12:41:22	Post Tools	Print Post
	The attempt to play in Gruenfeld fashion against the English doesn't receive that many outings, does it? There appears to be a broad consensus that it's suboptimal for Black.

	The Great Oz has spoken!
	IP Logged

BPaulsen God Member Offline I Love Light Squares! Posts: 1702 Location: Anaheim, CA, USA Joined: 11/02/08 Gender:	Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!? Reply #29 - 03/31/10 at 02:09:58	Post Tools	Print Post
	Smyslov_Fan wrote on 03/30/10 at 06:07:09: I'm more impressed with Khalifman's work now than when I first read it. It's not truly Kramnik's repertoire, and in places he cheats by simply repeating ECO lines and evaluations, but he did do well on the anti-Grunfeld chapters. Has there been any significant challenge to Khalifman's analysis since OFWAK came out? Significant challenge? No, not really. The evaluations are pretty much unchanged at the moment from what I've seen. Most of the GM games in the line have seen black ducking into sidelines and white not responding in the fashion that Khalifman advocates. It's not like the Bayonet KID where it was already outdated by the time the book was released, because it just doesn't receive that many tests.

	2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE. FIDE based on just 27 games.
	YIM AIM IP Logged

Smyslov_Fan God Member Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!? Reply #28 - 03/31/10 at 02:01:53	Post Tools	Print Post
	I wasn't referring to El Khalif's analysis of the symmetrical English so much as the topic at hand, avoiding the Grunfeld. Truth in advertising: I almost always play 1.d4 and only play 1.Nf3 against specific opponents. I've rarely faced the Symmetrical English as White in serious play due to my careful choice of opponents. Despite that, I do have a plus score against equal opposition (2000-2300 strength) in the few games I've played in the Symmetrical English. My opponents are usually surprised and not quite ready for it! But to reiterate, my post was regarding anti-Grunfeld positions, not the Symmetrical English per se.


	IP Logged

Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!? Reply #27 - 03/30/10 at 13:02:51	Post Tools	Print Post
	Smyslov_Fan wrote on 03/30/10 at 06:07:09: I'm more impressed with Khalifman's work now than when I first read it. It's not truly Kramnik's repertoire, and in places he cheats by simply repeating ECO lines and evaluations, but he did do well on the anti-Grunfeld chapters. Has there been any significant challenge to Khalifman's analysis since OFWAK came out? I won't belabor it since we've been around this mulberry bush a few times before, but the supposed ingeniousness of 1.Nf3 as an entrée to positions normally reached by 1.d4 depends strongly on White's chances in the Symmetrical English. If you like this for Black and also play the Sicilian, you can play 1...c5 against 1.c4 and laugh at 1.Nf3 while playing 1...c5 also. You save your Gruenfeld for 1.d4. If you like the Symmetrical English for White, then fine, 1.Nf3 is ingeniously circumvents the Gruenfeld, albeit at the cost of not being able to play certain sharp QGD and anti-Indian systems.

	The Great Oz has spoken!
	IP Logged

Smyslov_Fan God Member Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!? Reply #26 - 03/30/10 at 06:07:09	Post Tools	Print Post
	I'm more impressed with Khalifman's work now than when I first read it. It's not truly Kramnik's repertoire, and in places he cheats by simply repeating ECO lines and evaluations, but he did do well on the anti-Grunfeld chapters. Has there been any significant challenge to Khalifman's analysis since OFWAK came out?


	IP Logged

BPaulsen God Member Offline I Love Light Squares! Posts: 1702 Location: Anaheim, CA, USA Joined: 11/02/08 Gender:	Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!? Reply #25 - 03/30/10 at 03:13:51	Post Tools	Print Post
	Ametanoitos wrote on 02/27/08 at 00:06:03: This idea was played in Kantsler-Smirin Israel 2004 annotaded by Kanstler in informant 6...c5!? 7.Ne5 (After 7.Qxc5 Nc6 Khalifman says: "Black has excellent compensation for the pawn due to his huge lead in development") 7..e6 8.Nxd7 Qxd7 9.g3 Nc6 10.Bg2 Be7! 11.0-0 0-0 equal according to Kantsler). Khalifman in OFWAK 1A continues on Kanstler's analysis with 12. Qa4 Rac8 13. d3 Rfd8 14. Rd1 += due to white's bishop pair. Quote: I also know another idea coming from Adorjan and used by Rowson 5.e4 e5 6.d4 exd4 with a KID in which black saves a tempo on c6-d5! Also after 5.Nxe5 Nxe4. 5. Nxe5 Nxe4 6. Nxe4 Bxe5 7. d4 Bg7 8. Bg5 is depressing for black (also in OFWAK 1A). The best way for black to try to obtain that specific improved KID variation is via 1. Nf3 g6, because 2. d4 allows a Grunfeld, and 2. c4 Bg7 3. e4 (original Khalifman recommendation) e5! is satisfactory for black. White's most accurate move order after 1. Nf3 g6 is 2. e4, though...

	2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE. FIDE based on just 27 games.
	YIM AIM IP Logged

MatrixX Junior Member Offline carpe diem! Posts: 66 Joined: 02/21/09	Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!? Reply #24 - 03/30/10 at 02:11:23	Post Tools	Print Post
	@ Ametanoitos: do you have some concret lines or ideas for black after 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 e5 5.Nxe5 Nxe4 6.Nxe4 Bxe5 7.d4 Bg7 8.Bg5 f6 9.Be3 0-0 10.g3 i analysed this to depth and concluded white is just better, which is a pity, as i would like to get 4...e5 working.

	FIDE ELO: 2274, 19 years old student of mathematics and economics, working as chess-trainer, especially in openings! http://www.chess.com/coach/christoph-tiemann
	WWW IP Logged

Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!? Reply #23 - 03/05/08 at 13:17:31	Post Tools	Print Post
	Ametanoitos wrote on 03/04/08 at 13:50:59: Black doesn't play d6-c6+d5 but c6+d5. Ah, thanks, now I see what you mean.

	The Great Oz has spoken!
	IP Logged

Ametanoitos God Member Offline The road to success is under construction Posts: 1429 Location: Patras Joined: 01/04/05	Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!? Reply #22 - 03/04/08 at 13:50:59	Post Tools	Print Post
	Black doesn't play d6-c6+d5 but c6+d5.


	IP Logged

kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4989 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!? Reply #21 - 03/03/08 at 18:21:43	Post Tools	Print Post
	Markovich wrote on 03/03/08 at 17:24:23: Ametanoitos wrote on 02/27/08 at 00:06:03: I also know another idea coming from Adorjan and used by Rowson 5.e4 e5 6.d4 exd4 with a KID in which black saves a tempo on c6-d5! Also after 5.Nxe5 Nxe4. Is this what you mean by your "second idea?" I don't understand what you mean by saving a tempo on c7-c5, since usually when I see ...exd4 in the KID Classical, Black's pawn isn't on c6 yet. This is hardly a Gruenfeld, in any case. He means that Black might save a tempo on a line like 7...ed 8. Nxd4 Re8 9. f3 c6 (originally with the idea of ...d5) in the Classical KID.


	IP Logged

kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4989 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!? Reply #20 - 03/03/08 at 18:20:07	Post Tools	Print Post
	Ametanoitos wrote on 02/28/08 at 10:00:12: 8.Bg5 f6 9.Bh4/e3/f4 0-0 is good for black according to Motwani. Black is more coordinated and can push the f pawn (according to MrMo!) Well, I recall a game Keene-Miles from long ago which didn't go well for Black. He hardly looks "more coordinated" to me.


	IP Logged

Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!? Reply #19 - 03/03/08 at 17:24:23	Post Tools	Print Post
	Ametanoitos wrote on 02/27/08 at 00:06:03: I also know another idea coming from Adorjan and used by Rowson 5.e4 e5 6.d4 exd4 with a KID in which black saves a tempo on c6-d5! Also after 5.Nxe5 Nxe4. Is this what you mean by your "second idea?" I don't understand what you mean by saving a tempo on c7-c5, since usually when I see ...exd4 in the KID Classical, Black's pawn isn't on c6 yet. This is hardly a Gruenfeld, in any case.

	The Great Oz has spoken!
	IP Logged

Ametanoitos God Member Offline The road to success is under construction Posts: 1429 Location: Patras Joined: 01/04/05	Re: Avoiding Grunfeld!? Reply #18 - 03/03/08 at 15:35:10	Post Tools	Print Post
	There is not only Khalifman who believew in Black after giving the pawn. There are also the two players and my Rybka and Junior! I agree not to take something for granted but..... What about my second suggestion? I think that Gruenfeld players are little lazy to analyse!


	IP Logged

Page Index Toggle

Pages: [1] 2 3

Topic Tools

‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›

Bookmarks:

del.icio.us

Digg

Google

Google+

reddit

StumbleUpon

Yahoo

« Board Index ‹ Board Top

Top

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2026. All Rights Reserved.

Valid XHTML

Valid CSS

Powered by Perl

Source Forge