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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Cambridge Springs - Panczyk and Ilczuk (Read 18493 times)
FreeRepublic
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Re: Cambridge Springs - Panczyk and Ilczuk
Reply #25 - 10/02/24 at 21:07:29
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Several sources point out that Kramnik - Ivanchuk, Luzern 1993 was drawn after 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Nbd7 5. e3 c6 6. Nf3 Qa5 7. Nd2 Bb4 8. Qc2 O-O 9. Be2 c5 10. O-O cxd4 11. exd4 dxc4 12. Bh4 Nb6 13. Nxc4 Nxc4 14. Bxc4 Bd7 15. Bf6 gf6 16. d5 Bc3 17. de6 Be6 18. Be6 fe6 19.bc3 Rac8 
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A comment at ChessPub reads:  "a draw was agreed but White's play was still easier thanks to Black's vulnerable king." I found five games, one win for White and four draws.

Black could try to mix things up a little with 12... Qf5 13. Qf5 ef5 14. Nc4 h6
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FreeRepublic
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Re: Cambridge Springs - Panczyk and Ilczuk
Reply #24 - 09/27/24 at 13:59:52
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Thanks all. I recommend the books in this thread. Panczyk and Ilczuk (P&I) cover all lines in the Cambridge Springs variation. Rodi's focus is different. He covers several dynamic lines in the Queen's Gambit Declined. He provides his preferred lines for Black in the Cambridge Springs.

Like kylemeister, I am attracted to the old main line (1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Nbd7 5. e3 c6 6. Nf3 Qa5 7. Nd2 Bb4 8. Qc2 O-O 9. Be2 e5!?). P&I cover this, but do not recommend it. It is not in Rodi's repertoire. Glenn Flear, ChessPublishing, gave favorable coverage to one line in February 2021. For what it's worth, my current thinking is that it leaves Black with more homework than I want to do.

After 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Nbd7 5. e3 c6 6. Nf3 Qa5 7. Nd2, Rodi and Panczyk and Ilczuk recommend 8...dc4 8. Bf6 Nf6 9. Nc4 Qc7. It makes sense to me. 7Nd2 anticipates 7...Bb4, so perhaps the active looking 7...Bb4 should be avoided. Also, why not take White up on his offer of the two bishops? However, Black's position is a little cramped. I think Black can probably find satisfactory play in all variations and have even provided some recommendations in this thread.

Rodi has a second recommendation. It is also covered by Panczyk and Ilczuk. It splits the difference between the hyper-activity of the old main line and positional stoicism of the 8...dxc line. He recommends 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Nbd7 5. e3 c6 6. Nf3 Qa5 7. Nd2 Bb4 8. Qc2 O-O 9. Be2 c5.

I looked at this before but was not convinced. However, Rodi's advocacy has convinced me to look at it again. His familiarity with the material helps cut through a jungle of possible continuations. I've only started to go through his analysis but am encouraged so far.
  
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najdorfslayer
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Re: Cambridge Springs - Panczyk and Ilczuk
Reply #23 - 05/05/24 at 17:53:23
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kylemeister wrote on 04/06/24 at 18:50:03:
FreeRepublic wrote on 04/06/24 at 16:15:12:
The recent book, Modernized Queen's Gambit Declined, by Luis Rodi includes the Cambridge Springs. Like Panczyk and Ilczuk, he covers both 7...Bb4 and 7...dxc, based on his introduction which is available at ForwardChess.com.

I'm a bit curious as to what he has to say about this old main line: 7...Bb4 8. Qc2 0-0 9. Be2 e5. Historical notes: it was seen in Kasparov-Smyslov 1984 and Carlsen-Kasparov (rapid) 2004. A trap is 10. dxe5 Ne4 11. Ndxe4 dxe4 12. 0-0 Bxc3 13. bxc3 Nxe5 14. Qxe4 f6 15. Bf4 Bf5. That befell Gruenfeld (against Bogoljubov) in the 1920s, and Ed Formanek (against Ken Smith) in the 1960s.


He only gives 9...c5  Smiley
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: Cambridge Springs - Panczyk and Ilczuk
Reply #22 - 04/08/24 at 22:06:39
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For the record, here are the games referenced by FreeRepublic and kylemeister.
  

D52-historical.pgn ( 3 KB | 149 Downloads )
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Nernstian59
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Re: Cambridge Springs - Panczyk and Ilczuk
Reply #21 - 04/07/24 at 21:02:58
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kylemeister wrote on 04/06/24 at 18:50:03:
I'm a bit curious as to what he has to say about this old main line: 7...Bb4 8. Qc2 0-0 9. Be2 e5.

kylemeister - We'll probably have to wait for someone who owns Rodi's book to chime in. FreeRepublic can correct me if I'm mistaken, but I believe his information on the book is limited to the ForwardChess preview, which doesn't disclose the contents of the Cambridge Springs chapter.  It does show the book's introduction, where Rodi states he covers both 7...Bb4 and 7 dxc4, but doesn't go any further.

BTW- that's a neat trap that you showed.  I checked out Bogoljubow-Grünfeld, Mährisch-Ostrau 1923 and found that Black was able to escape with a draw even after falling into the trap since Bogo made a series of inferior moves afterward.
  
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Re: Cambridge Springs - Panczyk and Ilczuk
Reply #20 - 04/06/24 at 18:50:03
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FreeRepublic wrote on 04/06/24 at 16:15:12:
The recent book, Modernized Queen's Gambit Declined, by Luis Rodi includes the Cambridge Springs. Like Panczyk and Ilczuk, he covers both 7...Bb4 and 7...dxc, based on his introduction which is available at ForwardChess.com.

I'm a bit curious as to what he has to say about this old main line: 7...Bb4 8. Qc2 0-0 9. Be2 e5. Historical notes: it was seen in Kasparov-Smyslov 1984 and Carlsen-Kasparov (rapid) 2004. A trap is 10. dxe5 Ne4 11. Ndxe4 dxe4 12. 0-0 Bxc3 13. bxc3 Nxe5 14. Qxe4 f6 15. Bf4 Bf5. That befell Gruenfeld (against Bogoljubov) in the 1920s, and Ed Formanek (against Ken Smith) in the 1960s.
  
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Re: Cambridge Springs - Panczyk and Ilczuk
Reply #19 - 04/06/24 at 18:38:22
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FreeRepublic wrote on 05/19/22 at 22:54:21:
However Panczyk and Ilczuk, in their characteristic thoroughness, also cover 8...Bd6 (Location 1117, Kindle).


My mistake. That is in the 7Nd2 line, not the 7cxd line. The analyis in my post still applies, but not the attribution!
  
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Re: Cambridge Springs - Panczyk and Ilczuk
Reply #18 - 04/06/24 at 16:15:12
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After 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Nbd7 5. e3 c6 6. Nf3 Qa5!? 7. Nd2!? Panczyk and Ilczuk analyze many moves. The main moves are 7...Bb4 and 7...dxc. They acknowledge that 7...Bb4 is more popular, but they prefer 7...dxc. 7...Bb4 is active and leads to interesting play. However, Black has to play precisely in several lines. This is a practical more than a theoretical problem.

I have been slow to warm up to 7. Nd2!? dc4 8. Bf6 Nf6 9. Nc4 Qc7 as it looks passive. However, I think this calls for a revised way of thinking about the position. One author said that he thought the Nimzo-Indian was a gambit by Black because he gives up the two bishops. If so, then the above sequence is a gambit by White. I now think that if Black accepts the gambit, perhaps returning it later, he gets an acceptable game.

Active play is possible, though not assured. Here's a sample line:
1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Nbd7 5. e3 c6 6. Nf3 Qa5 7. Nd2 dc4 8. Bf6 Nf6 9. Nc4 Qc7 10. Rc1 Bd6!? 11. f4!? Be7 12. Bd3 O-O 13. O-O c5!? 14. dc5 Bc5 15. Kh1

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Black seems ok and can consider 15...Qe7, 15...Rd8, or 15...b6.

The recent book, Modernized Queen's Gambit Declined, by Luis Rodi includes the Cambridge Springs. Like Panczyk and Ilczuk, he covers both 7...Bb4 and 7...dxc, based on his introduction which is available at ForwardChess.com.
  
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Re: Cambridge Springs - Panczyk and Ilczuk
Reply #17 - 04/06/24 at 13:28:07
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After 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Nbd7 5. e3 c6 6. Nf3 Qa5 7. cxd5 Nd5 8. Qd2, Bd6!? is a little played move. P&I are very thorough, but do not mention 8...Bd6. On the face of it, developing a piece and preparing ...e5 makes sense. After 9. Bd3 e5 10. O-O O-O, we get to an interesting position.

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White has several reasonable alternatives:  11Bh4, 11Rad1, 11e4, 11Rfd1, 11a3.

SF proposes 11. Rad1. After 11...h6 12. Bh4 Bb4!? 13. Rc1!? both sides have lost a tempo and the game transposes to an old main line that is covered by Panczyk and Ilczuk. Now I like 13...Re8. My notes show that this was seen in Shirov - Piket, Aruba (m/6) 1995, and Alekhine - Bogoljubow, Wch14, GER\\NLD 1929.

The advantage of 8...Bd6, as opposed to 8...Bb4, is that Black is not bothered by an early a3 by White.

« Last Edit: 04/06/24 at 18:29:42 by FreeRepublic »  
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Re: Cambridge Springs - Panczyk and Ilczuk
Reply #16 - 05/19/22 at 22:54:21
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Sometimes people act against their better judgment. For some, it's opening that bag of potato chips, lighting that cigarette, or having that drink. For me, it's looking at the Cambridge Springs (or King's Indian).

After 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 Nbd7 5. Bg5 c6 6. e3 Qa5 7. cd5 Nd5 8. Qd2, the two major moves are 8...Bb4 and 8...N7d6. However Panczyk and Ilczuk, in their characteristic thoroughness, also cover 8...Bd6 (Location 1117, Kindle). They continue:
8...Bd6 9. e4 Nc3 10. bc3 e5 11. Rb1 O-O 12. Bd3. Stockfish now recommends 12...c5 with equality.

When contemplating the Cambridge Springs variation, I often take a sidelong glance at the exchange variation. By the given move order, perhaps: 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 Nbd7 5. Bg5 c6 6. cd5 ed5 7. e3 Be7 8. Qc2 Nh5
  
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Re: Cambridge Springs - Panczyk and Ilczuk
Reply #15 - 03/28/22 at 18:20:34
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I suppose at some point one might choose to freeze the tablet, or phone, configuration and stop updating the OS.

I have orphaned laptops. It just makes sense to buy new, while keeping the old.
  
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Re: Cambridge Springs - Panczyk and Ilczuk
Reply #14 - 03/28/22 at 17:36:43
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It's not a bummer. I went in to the Removed section, clicked on the icon for the book, the app said "Downloading", and now I can read it again.

But this gets back to my original point, this only works because Gambit still exists as a company. Once they go away, I have no control over whether their app continues to work, whether the books still appear in the app, etc., etc. 

Even if they keep their content servers turned on, if they stop updating the app then eventually it will stop working. I have seen it before. I go into an app and it refuses to work with a message "you need to update your OS". After updating my OS I go into a different app and it refuses to work with a message "this app is not supported on OS version x.y".

At the moment my phone's proprietary password manager is telling me it won't be supported on an unspecified future version of the OS. So I have stopped doing any updates while I tediously copy many hundreds of passwords into a decent open source password manager.
  
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Re: Cambridge Springs - Panczyk and Ilczuk
Reply #13 - 03/28/22 at 17:06:21
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 03/28/22 at 13:20:40:
I think the books can be deleted when iOS is upgraded


Well, that is a bummer.

I have an Android tablet, not a phone. Earlier today I checked books from Forward Chess and Everyman Chess in a place that did not have WIFI. They worked just fine.

I don't know if your problem is due to using a phone, using IOS, or something else.

Perhaps the people who sold you Secrets of Practical Chess have a record of your purchase, in which case you might be able to download it again for free.
  
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Re: Cambridge Springs - Panczyk and Ilczuk
Reply #12 - 03/28/22 at 13:20:40
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FreeRepublic wrote on 03/28/22 at 12:02:22:
Apparently, everything was right there on my tablet and not in the cloud.


I have icons for two books which I have already read, but just now clicked on one of them and:
Quote:
Error
Failed to load book, please try to download it again from the "Removed" section (Error: The file "secrets_of_practical_chess_enlarged_edition_sopc.gb3" couldn't be opened because there is no such file.)
(OK)

I think the books can be deleted when iOS is upgraded.
  
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Re: Cambridge Springs - Panczyk and Ilczuk
Reply #11 - 03/28/22 at 12:02:22
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 06/15/20 at 22:24:25:
I bought a couple of app-books, just to see how they work. They work well! There is some functionality not available in the kindle versions. But I won't buy many that way, because like all such services, if/when the company goes away, so would/will my books.


That is a valid concern, but I don't think you need to worry. I used my tablet recently away from home. I had no WIFI access and the Gambit app worked just fine. I was able to bring up a book and do what-if analysis, with and without the engine.

Apparently, everything was right there on my tablet and not in the cloud. I don't remember if I tested apps and books from Forward Chess or Everyman Chess though.
  
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